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Troy Davis to be executed tonight

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Serious Business ▸ Troy Davis to be executed tonight
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Sep 22, 2011 6:49 AM
ohiotiger33;906339 wrote:You don't live in that state, so move to one that doesn't have the death penalty!
So no one can have an opinion on states outside their own? Gotcha.
Sep 22, 2011 6:49am
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

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7,809 posts
Sep 22, 2011 9:24 AM
I Wear Pants;906337 wrote:
The state should not kill people.
thats what the people want.
Sep 22, 2011 9:24am
G

Gblock

Sep 22, 2011 9:26 AM
while many times i probably am the type to side with sparing the death penalty if there is some sort of doubt. but honestly in this case i really didnt see anything that made me believe he didnt do it
Sep 22, 2011 9:26am
I

I Wear Pants

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Sep 22, 2011 9:41 AM
Glory Days;906493 wrote:thats what the people want.
Morality is not democratic.
Sep 22, 2011 9:41am
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Glory Days

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Sep 22, 2011 9:55 AM
I Wear Pants;906509 wrote:Morality is not democratic.
sure it is. society decides what is and what isnt morale.
Sep 22, 2011 9:55am
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FatHobbit

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Sep 22, 2011 9:57 AM
Glory Days;906525 wrote:sure it is. society decides what is and what isnt morale.
I'm for the death penalty, but I agree with IWP. What is right should not be determined by vote. If that were true women would still be in the kitchen (where they belong) and some states would have slaves.
Sep 22, 2011 9:57am
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

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Sep 22, 2011 10:00 AM
FatHobbit;906529 wrote:I'm for the death penalty, but I agree with IWP. What is right should not be determined by vote. If that were true women would still be in the kitchen (where they belong) and some states would have slaves.
the morale standards of a society evolves with time etc.
Sep 22, 2011 10:00am
I

I Wear Pants

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16,223 posts
Sep 22, 2011 10:01 AM
Glory Days;906525 wrote:sure it is. society decides what is and what isnt morale.
Depends on which theory of ethics we're using. Aristotle certainly disagrees with you in his Nicomachean Ethics. He contends that what is right is right even if everybody is wrong about it.

I tend to agree. If everyone suddenly decided rape and murder was okay they would not be. They are inherently evil and what society thinks about them is irrelevant. Colonialists thought racism and slavery were okay. They were wrong and both those actions are unjust. Simply because they all thought it was okay didn't make it so.
Sep 22, 2011 10:01am
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

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5,122 posts
Sep 22, 2011 10:05 AM
FatHobbit;906529 wrote:I'm for the death penalty, but I agree with IWP. What is right should not be determined by vote. If that were true women would still be in the kitchen (where they belong) and some states would have slaves.
The former was determined by vote. The latter war.
Sep 22, 2011 10:05am
I

I Wear Pants

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Sep 22, 2011 10:07 AM
majorspark;906539 wrote:The former was determined by vote. The latter war.
Just because the majority was correct in one instance (Women's suffrage) doesn't mean that the majority is always correct.
Sep 22, 2011 10:07am
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Skyhook79

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Sep 22, 2011 10:12 AM
I Wear Pants;906542 wrote:Just because the majority was correct in one instance (Women's suffrage) doesn't mean that the majority is always correct.
That I can agree with. 2008 Presidential election proves it.
Sep 22, 2011 10:12am
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majorspark

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Sep 22, 2011 10:20 AM
I Wear Pants;906542 wrote:Just because the majority was correct in one instance (Women's suffrage) doesn't mean that the majority is always correct.
Didn't say that. But practically speaking ones rights are secured by the government and the people.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
Sep 22, 2011 10:20am
I

I Wear Pants

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Sep 22, 2011 10:30 AM
Morality isn't practical. If we did what was most practical we'd all be greedy murderous bastards only looking out for ourselves.

Glory Days justified an action as right because the majority want it. That is what I was speaking to. The people or a government can most certainly be morally wrong.
majorspark;906558 wrote:Didn't say that. But practically speaking ones rights are secured by the government and the people.
Our legal rights yes. But government nor a majority vote can change what is right and what is wrong.
Sep 22, 2011 10:30am
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

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Sep 22, 2011 10:35 AM
I Wear Pants;906534 wrote:Depends on which theory of ethics we're using. Aristotle certainly disagrees with you in his Nicomachean Ethics. He contends that what is right is right even if everybody is wrong about it.

I tend to agree. If everyone suddenly decided rape and murder was okay they would not be. They are inherently evil and what society thinks about them is irrelevant. Colonialists thought racism and slavery were okay. They were wrong and both those actions are unjust. Simply because they all thought it was okay didn't make it so.
of course its wrong when you apply hindsight. if you were alive back then, you would have no problem owning slaves and wouldnt think twice about it.
Sep 22, 2011 10:35am
I

I Wear Pants

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Sep 22, 2011 10:36 AM
Glory Days;906581 wrote:of course its wrong when you apply hindsight. if you were alive back then, you would have no problem owning slaves and wouldnt think twice about it.
That I might think owning slaves is okay is irrelevant as it's inherently wrong.
Sep 22, 2011 10:36am
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

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Sep 22, 2011 10:54 AM
I Wear Pants;906583 wrote:That I might think owning slaves is okay is irrelevant as it's inherently wrong.
only because of the mindset you have today because of the society you were brought up in. for thousands of years, slavery was not inherently wrong or else it would have never happened.
Sep 22, 2011 10:54am
I

I Wear Pants

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Sep 22, 2011 10:56 AM
Glory Days;906611 wrote:only because of the mindset you have today because of the society you were brought up in. for thousands of years, slavery was not inherently wrong or else it would have never happened.
People do what is wrong all the time.

Slavery was just as wrong back then as it is now. What people thought about it has nothing to do with it.

You're confusing societal norms with morality. They are different concepts.
Sep 22, 2011 10:56am
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

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Sep 22, 2011 11:01 AM
I Wear Pants;906616 wrote:People do what is wrong all the time.

Slavery was just as wrong back then as it is now. What people thought about it has nothing to do with it.

You're confusing societal norms with morality. They are different concepts.
so what/who determines what is right or wrong if it isnt people/society? morals are a human element not some science applied to everything.

"Morals refers to generally accepted customs of conduct and right living in a society, and to the individual's practice in relation to these"
Sep 22, 2011 11:01am
I

I Wear Pants

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Sep 22, 2011 11:15 AM
Glory Days;906623 wrote:so what/who determines what is right or wrong if it isnt people/society? morals are a human element not some science applied to everything.

"Morals refers to generally accepted customs of conduct and right living in a society, and to the individual's practice in relation to these"
I'm speaking from a Virtue Ethics point of view. There are other views as well (Utilitarian, etc).

Virtue Ethics says that we strive for the mean of things. For example courage is a virtue but one can be too courageous and is therefore rash. We can also have a lack of courage and be cowards. The goal is the mean, the proper amount, for the right reasons, etc.

There are some things that have no mean and are inherently unjust. There is no proper amount of theft, rape, murder, adultery, slavery, etc.

And your idea that I would have thought differently about slavery if I were alive in a different time is untrue because the above ideas were promoted by Aristotle who lived in 300 something BC.
Sep 22, 2011 11:15am
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Glory Days

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Sep 22, 2011 11:18 AM
I Wear Pants;906646 wrote:I'm speaking from a Virtue Ethics point of view. There are other views as well (Utilitarian, etc).
haha yeah i am going to go back to playing Hungry Hungry Hippos now.
Sep 22, 2011 11:18am
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Devils Advocate

Brudda o da bomber

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Sep 22, 2011 11:19 AM
Skyhook79;906550 wrote:That I can agree with. 2008 Presidential election proves it.
Then what about the 2000 presidential election???
Sep 22, 2011 11:19am
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gorocks99

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Sep 22, 2011 11:20 AM
Immanuel Kant wants a ruling on this debate.
Sep 22, 2011 11:20am
I

I Wear Pants

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Sep 22, 2011 11:20 AM
gorocks99;906654 wrote:Immanuel Kant wants a ruling on this debate.
+1
Sep 22, 2011 11:20am
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Skyhook79

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Sep 22, 2011 1:05 PM
Devils Advocate;906653 wrote:Then what about the 2000 presidential election???
What about it?
Sep 22, 2011 1:05pm
I

I Wear Pants

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Sep 22, 2011 1:51 PM
ccrunner609;906696 wrote:Yep, the simplistic beauty of our system. States rights.
No, I'm allowed an opinion on the matter and I am allowed to voice said opinion.

Just because I don't live in a state doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on matters in said state or that it's none of my business. It is my business (at least in regards to legal matters and such) because of the way in which precedent works.
Sep 22, 2011 1:51pm