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Soldier Unfit for high school football

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Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

Senior Member

7,809 posts
Aug 14, 2011 2:15 PM
Pick6;861929 wrote:some of you (glory days) obviously havent played football.

and some people dont understand how flawed old fashioned logic is.
Aug 14, 2011 2:15pm
Scooter1369's avatar

Scooter1369

Bucks/Knights/Cats

179 posts
Aug 14, 2011 11:34 PM
Wait... When the hell did people start attending Boot Camp between their Junior and Senior years of high school?
Aug 14, 2011 11:34pm
THE4RINGZ's avatar

THE4RINGZ

R.I.P Thread Bomber

16,816 posts
Aug 14, 2011 11:36 PM
The early enlistment program has been around for a while now. It allows a soldier to hit the ground running once they graduate from high school.
Aug 14, 2011 11:36pm
Scooter1369's avatar

Scooter1369

Bucks/Knights/Cats

179 posts
Aug 14, 2011 11:50 PM
The Delayed Entry Program has been around forever it seems, but a program allowing a kid to go to boot camp during the summer of his Junior/Senior year, and then return to civilian life for 9 months is something I've never heard of.
Aug 14, 2011 11:50pm
THE4RINGZ's avatar

THE4RINGZ

R.I.P Thread Bomber

16,816 posts
Aug 14, 2011 11:51 PM
You must not have kids in high school????
Aug 14, 2011 11:51pm
Scooter1369's avatar

Scooter1369

Bucks/Knights/Cats

179 posts
Aug 14, 2011 11:57 PM
No my oldest is 13.
Aug 14, 2011 11:57pm
THE4RINGZ's avatar

THE4RINGZ

R.I.P Thread Bomber

16,816 posts
Aug 15, 2011 12:09 AM
Gotcha. That program has been around for 3-4 years now.
Aug 15, 2011 12:09am
Scooter1369's avatar

Scooter1369

Bucks/Knights/Cats

179 posts
Aug 15, 2011 12:14 AM
The only reference I can find to something like this is the Future Soldiers Program. And that doesn't include a full trip to basic training, just a couple of weeks of crossfit with an army drill seargent. Nothing like real boot camp and nowhere near as demanding.
Aug 15, 2011 12:14am
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bigkahuna

Senior Member

4,454 posts
Aug 15, 2011 12:14 AM
Glory Days;862045 wrote:and some people dont understand how flawed old fashioned logic is.

How is it old fashion logic when we see harder hitters and more injuries than ever before?

I played contact football from 4th grade-12th grade, and I was always hurting after the first day of contact. By the time the first game came around about 2 weeks later, I was ready to go. I guarantee this is the norm for the majority of players.

I really don't think any other sport has this issue. If it was basketball, he might need to practice to get his shot back, but it wouldn't physically affect him.

I definitely understand and support these rules. I really can't think of ANY reason as to why a player can skip the requirements.
Aug 15, 2011 12:14am
Belly35's avatar

Belly35

Elderly Intellectual

9,716 posts
Aug 15, 2011 8:04 AM
I agree with the ruling. Military Training does provide an individual with better physical conditioning than stand football drills and practice
Football practice provide that timing, reading training, eye hand coordination, lateral movement, field and play awareness and first step speed and the ability to take and deliver a hit. That does come easy and does require some preparation. It’s like riding a bike you never for get how to balance but you’re not as good at it after a time not doing it.
Aug 15, 2011 8:04am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Aug 15, 2011 9:06 AM
1_beast;860698 wrote:this is a stooopid rule...when pertaining to boot camp, im sure the kid will be in better shape than 100% of the linemen, not to mention most others on the team as well.

I am actually torn.

On one hand I respect everyone that has ever served in our military and always want them to be treated with the utmost respect.

On the other hand, while in straight conditioning (both cardiovascular and muscle fatigue) he will be in better shape than everyone else, when it comes to the body being used to the collisions of a football game his body will NOT be ready.

Anyone who played HS football will tell you that you can have all the helmets only conditioning in the world for weeks, but the first week or so of full pads/full contact practice are brutal. I didn't mind 2 a days after the first week or so, but all 4 years of HS I dreaded those first few days of hitting practice there was no way to go home without a horrible headache and your whole body feeling like you got ran over by a car.

I actually agree with the rule, 2 solid weeks of practice should be required before playing in a game.
Aug 15, 2011 9:06am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Aug 15, 2011 9:08 AM
Glory Days;860991 wrote:football shape? really?

If you played football you would understand. There are definitely sports that require being in better "shape" as in how we normally think of being in shape, like wrestling, cross country, soccer, etc.

However, having the body conditioned for the collisions of football is what they typically mean by "football shape".

As I said in my above post, that is a real idea and takes a week or so minimum to get the body conditioned to the collisions.
Aug 15, 2011 9:08am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Aug 15, 2011 9:12 AM
Glory Days;861341 wrote:haha getting the body used to hitting. i would love to see anything showing that is more than another sports myth. i mean, remember when coaches wouldnt give their kids water?

Did you play HS football?

There is NO DOUBT the first few days of hitting practice made you much more sore and more headaches than the whole rest of the season combined (at least for me). Not a myth.
Aug 15, 2011 9:12am
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

Senior Member

7,809 posts
Aug 15, 2011 9:31 AM
jmog;862727 wrote:Did you play HS football?

There is NO DOUBT the first few days of hitting practice made you much more sore and more headaches than the whole rest of the season combined (at least for me). Not a myth.

so what about pitchers in baseball? or cross country runners? you go throw 6/7 innings or go run your first meet without proper conditioning to your arm or legs you could be hurt too. so he will be sore after his first game more than his teammates. so? whats the difference if he sore after the first couple two a days or first game? he is missing 5 practices. what if a player gets hurt during practice 3. and is out for a week (5 practices), and there are only 2 days before the first game. does he sit too?
Aug 15, 2011 9:31am
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 15, 2011 9:43 AM
I think what he is doing is called a 'split option' where ya attend BCT one summer, go to school, then AIT the next summer.

A couple of guys I have known who did this really didnt like it. On the face it seems like a decent idea but in reality when you go it is best to get it all done consecutively.


The more I think of it the more I think he wouldnt really be ready for the first game. He gets back on the 19th, and they play a week later. They wont be practicing on sat/sun. They will start their game week on monday. Mon-wed will be decent practices and thursday an easy walk through. In reality he would only have 2-3 days of some hitting to really get ready.

That acclimation is there for a reason. When you are allowed to start hitting ya go at it pretty good during two a days. You go through the traditional tackling drills to work on technique, work on your form, and get over the initial soreness for a few days. I typically only have sat in a hot tub a few days a year and it was always those first few days of hitting.

I dont think this kid would get hurt if he played in the game, but I dont think he would be fully ready to play.
Aug 15, 2011 9:43am
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thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 15, 2011 9:50 AM
Is there any info on his MOS?

His dad comments in the article that 4 days a week his son is running 5 miles a day with 20-30 lbs of gear on. His dad is retired Army so maybe when he went through it they did that but I know last July-sept when I went we didnt run 5 miles TOTAL with 20-30 lbs of gear on at Benning.

Maybe the kid is going into the infantry and I know some of their basic is harder and more demanding. I know they have a longer FTX training, and they basically can do their basic and AIT as one longer course than the standard basic. Even at that, I am unsure if they are running 5 miles a day with taht gear on.
I could be totally wrong though about that.

The toughest thing I recall is the 15K ruck march with 40-50lb of gear on. There is a spot they call 'Stairway to Heaven' where there is a pretty good incline that seems to never end.
Aug 15, 2011 9:50am
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thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 15, 2011 9:55 AM
Is there any info on his MOS?

His dad comments in the article that 4 days a week his son is running 5 miles a day with 20-30 lbs of gear on. His dad is retired Army so maybe when he went through it they did that but I know last July-sept when I went we didnt run 5 miles TOTAL with 20-30 lbs of gear on at Benning.

Maybe the kid is going into the infantry and I know some of their basic is harder and more demanding. I know they have a longer FTX training, and they basically can do their basic and AIT as one longer course than the standard basic. Even at that, I am unsure if they are running 5 miles a day with taht gear on.
I could be totally wrong though about that.

The toughest thing I recall is the 15K ruck march with 40-50lb of gear on. There is a spot they call 'Stairway to Heaven' where there is a pretty good incline that seems to never end.
Aug 15, 2011 9:55am
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bigkahuna

Senior Member

4,454 posts
Aug 15, 2011 9:58 AM
Glory Days;862746 wrote:so what about pitchers in baseball? or cross country runners? you go throw 6/7 innings or go run your first meet without proper conditioning to your arm or legs you could be hurt too. so he will be sore after his first game more than his teammates. so? whats the difference if he sore after the first couple two a days or first game? he is missing 5 practices. what if a player gets hurt during practice 3. and is out for a week (5 practices), and there are only 2 days before the first game. does he sit too?

1. CC Running is about conditioning and endurance. You probably get trained that way in basic training. Does any other sport have this type of minimal requirement? I honestly don't know.

2. I don't know the requirements for baseball, but I'd assume the coach wouldn't start him without some preparation first.

3. Yes, we've had players get hurt during 2-a-days and have to participate in the mandated requirements for practices. Like I said before, we had a kid enroll in the district the 1st day of school. He walked around in shorts the 1st couple of practices, and I think couldn't even dress until week 2 or 3.

What's so hard to understand about this? You have to put in the time in order to participate.

This isn't the same thing, but soldiers don't come out of basic training and automatically get a gun license in civilian life just because they were trained to shoot a rifle during basic. What you do for the military is just for that, the military.
Aug 15, 2011 9:58am
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

Senior Member

7,809 posts
Aug 15, 2011 10:11 AM
bigkahuna;862761 wrote: What's so hard to understand about this? You have to put in the time in order to participate.

This isn't the same thing, but soldiers don't come out of basic training and automatically get a gun license in civilian life just because they were trained to shoot a rifle during basic. What you do for the military is just for that, the military.

so its about putting your time in, not safety or preventing injury? and there has been talk about members of the military getting fast tracked for CCWs.
Aug 15, 2011 10:11am
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

Senior Member

7,809 posts
Aug 15, 2011 10:11 AM
bigkahuna;862761 wrote: What's so hard to understand about this? You have to put in the time in order to participate.

This isn't the same thing, but soldiers don't come out of basic training and automatically get a gun license in civilian life just because they were trained to shoot a rifle during basic. What you do for the military is just for that, the military.

so its about putting your time in, not safety or preventing injury? and there has been talk about members of the military getting fast tracked for CCWs.
Aug 15, 2011 10:11am
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bigkahuna

Senior Member

4,454 posts
Aug 15, 2011 10:25 AM
Glory Days;862767 wrote:so its about putting your time in, not safety or preventing injury? and there has been talk about members of the military getting fast tracked for CCWs.

Wow, I really have to spell things out huh?

I kind of figured that it was implied that you're putting in your time for safety. I think I even stated that in a previous post how much I physically hurt after the first couple days of contact, and that was a gradual pace upwards from day to day. Whereas first game is 100% GO.
Aug 15, 2011 10:25am
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thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 15, 2011 10:35 AM
The IHSAA has said this is not the first time this has come up.

Could they be sticking to their guns as to not have to rule on every other type of exceptions that could be out there?

Lets face fact, the kid would get basically only THREE practices in before the first game. Even at that, many teams taper off their practices a little bit on the physical side when the season starts.
Aug 15, 2011 10:35am
M

Manhattan Buckeye

Senior Member

7,566 posts
Aug 15, 2011 10:43 AM
Glory Days;862767 wrote:so its about putting your time in, not safety or preventing injury? and there has been talk about members of the military getting fast tracked for CCWs.

Its about neither, its about avoiding litigation in case the guy gets hurt in the first game so that the district's insurance company doesn't get boned.

I'm pretty sure this rule didn't exist when I was in HS, in those days all you needed was a doctor's physical to play any sport - if you didn't have an approved physical you couldn't practice let alone put on the uniform.

Although I understand the reasoning behind the rule, it is largely unenforceable (the reason why this is notorious is due to the situation) and ineffective (is the HSAA of the relevant state monitoring every practice?).

At least with a doctor's physical you have a professional performing an examination and administering an opinion.
Aug 15, 2011 10:43am
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fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Aug 15, 2011 11:42 AM
This is stupid. If he's willing to sign a waiver and agree not to sue in the case of injury, they should waive the condition and let him play. The rule doesn't have meaning by itself; it's a means to an end, and when the end is met through other means, forcing someone to adhere to the rule seems stupid.
Aug 15, 2011 11:42am
M

Manhattan Buckeye

Senior Member

7,566 posts
Aug 15, 2011 12:14 PM
^^^^

Is there a Bad News Bears reference here?

Joking aside, the analysis is correct, the rule isn't about fair competition, his teams' opponents aren't better off that he didn't attend practice. If it is about safety then they need to have a representative attending every practice to insure that all players are being thoroughly trained to play a varsity game. Again, I don't think this rule existed when I was in school since we had guys join the team mid-year - cheesed off a lot of guys that it happened, but it was an internal issue.

This is purely legal, and if a guy can commit himself to the military, he should be able to commit himself to not suing the pee out of the district.
Aug 15, 2011 12:14pm