WLBs @ Reds, game 2

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mhs95_06

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Jul 16, 2011 9:14 PM
dave;831889 wrote:Pitch to Pujols with a base open there and you deserve to lose.

The open base was 2nd, and Holliday is not that much of a drop-off from Pujols, in fact Brantley said that Arroyo seemed more concerned with Holliday than Pujols. A walk makes the RBI potential for Holliday vs. Pujols 2 vs. 1 on a single(the most common hit), and 4 vs. 3 on a HR. Also facing Pujols, if you try to get him to swing at a pitch out of the zone with 3 balls and he doesn't, you don't give up a run, but with Holliday and the bases loaded you do -- that is an important consideration, especially for an Arroyo type pitcher who has to fool them rather than over-power them!
Jul 16, 2011 9:14pm
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dave

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Jul 16, 2011 9:27 PM
I understand that thought process but that's asking to lose also IMO. Forget all the numbers, don't let the best player in baseball beat you.
Jul 16, 2011 9:27pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 9:35 PM
My two cents as I just got to live TV

Unacceptable base running by Heisey and especially Stubbs. Stubbs kept Votto from coming up. The Cards have done a better job getting to their stud.

Phillips with 2 tremendous defensive plays.

Jeff Brantley is somewhat retarded tonight. The play at 2nd with Votto sliding in was a force out until Votto gets to the base....ball was bobbled while his foot was on the base but Votto slid into the player and not to the base....and somehow Descaslo got the ball and got his foot to the base before Votto finally got there. Brantley kept arguing that he never tagged him with the glove and then finally said he never touched the base? Then on one of Bronson's best pitches for a K he said ( as they are replaying the K zone)....not sure what he's unsure about that ball easily is a strike, not part of the ball was in the zone..that entire ball was in the zone....just look at the replay....replay 100% showed 40-50% of the ball catching the zone. Also early in the game Renteria actually showed some range and he says great play by Phillips knowing to become a first baseman...well duh Phillips has made 1,000 plays better than that and then replay showed Phillips had his tag foot in the center of 2nd....my 8 year old had better position covering that play today.

Also....Carpenter was pissed at the 1st base ump....not Freese......but Carpenter was definitely pissed at Punto....lol

Carpenter is easily my least favorite big leaguer.

The HR to Pujols falls on Bronson not the ump.
Jul 16, 2011 9:35pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 9:38 PM
Not siding with anyone....but that whole at bat Pujols was looking for a pitch and when he got it he laced it. Not sure anyone is better at looking for a pitch and killing it.
Jul 16, 2011 9:38pm
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dave

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Jul 16, 2011 9:43 PM
Gomes just locked up a start tomorrow with Heisey's bonehead baserunning and Gomesesque swing at a ball 3 feet out of the zone.
Jul 16, 2011 9:43pm
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mhs95_06

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Jul 16, 2011 9:45 PM
That 3-2 pitch that Carpenter got Heisey to go for that was multiple feet outside is a perfect example of what an experienced pitcher can do to take advantage of having a base open. If Heisey doesn't go for it, it just loads the bases. If he goes for it he's out of the inning! If the bases are loaded and Hanigan doesn't go for it, it's a run.
Jul 16, 2011 9:45pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 9:47 PM
On the Renteria play on Molina ( slowest family in baseball)....it's all position players job to know the speed of the hitters and/or base runners. It looked clear to me that as soon as Edgar got his old ass to the ball and fielded it cleanly....the rest wS easy cause Molina takes forever.

Also stat buffs..on Pujols early game GIDP.....he took 5.1 seconds to first.....a full second off of his typical time....didn't hustle!
Jul 16, 2011 9:47pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 9:49 PM
dave;831904 wrote:Gomes just locked up a start tomorrow with Heisey's bonehead baserunning and Gomesesque swing at a ball 3 feet out of the zone.

Yeah Thom was beside himself.....but Heisey is not alone on this team....but God that was extra awful.
Jul 16, 2011 9:49pm
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mhs95_06

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Jul 16, 2011 9:50 PM
dave;831904 wrote:Gomes just locked up a start tomorrow with Heisey's bonehead baserunning and Gomesesque swing at a ball 3 feet out of the zone.

Do you think Dusty took Heisey out of LF in the top of the 9th due to his disappointment with him? Heisey is a way better defender, and if you just keep the pitcher in the 9th spot you can pinch hit for him with Lewis in the bottom of the 9th. If Bray doesn't pitch the whole inning and you want to bring in a pitcher that can pitch the 10th also, if that remote possibility arises, you can just double switch when you bring that pitcher in.
Jul 16, 2011 9:50pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 9:52 PM
Reds have 7 hits and Cardinals have 3 errors.....only 1 run....and Stubbs and Renteria have been on base more than expected.
Jul 16, 2011 9:52pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 9:53 PM
mhs95_06;831910 wrote:Do you think Dusty took Heisey out of LF in the top of the 9th due to his disappointment with him? Heisey is a way better defender, and if you just keep the pitcher in the 9th spot you can pinch hit for him with Lewis in the bottom of the 9th. If Bray doesn't pitch the whole inning and you want to bring in a pitcher that can pitch the 10th also, if that remote possibility arises, you can just double switch when you bring that pitcher in.

No, Dusty only does double switches when it makes no sense.
Jul 16, 2011 9:53pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 9:59 PM
Also....from last week. I was watching the HR Derby and I stayed up to watch the Celebrity All-Star game. During one of the later innings Fred Lynn in the most meaningless game ever and having been retired for 21 years and at FIFTY-NINE years of age laid out full extension on a ball that fell in front of him. He is now tied with Drew Stubbs on dives coming in on a ball.
Jul 16, 2011 9:59pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 10:01 PM
Awful game/loss by the Reds....thank God they pulled through last night.

Have not won consecutive games in a month? No excuse for that.
Jul 16, 2011 10:01pm
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dave

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Jul 16, 2011 10:09 PM
Well, good news is this was the one the Cards were supposed to win. If Bailey can pull one out tomorrow they are in great shape. Willis, Leake, Cueto should be able to win the series in Pittsburgh even with the way it's gone so far.

Still think this team needs a few new faces.

mhs, don't have a clue. Dusty does funny things will double switches. Doubt he was pulling Heisey.

Lets hope for a win tomorrow. Probably will watch the soccer more than this.
Jul 16, 2011 10:09pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 10:11 PM
Renteria had 2 hits...but also left 4 runners on base.....Phillips left 5 guys on and Bruce didn't come through leaving 6 on base.
Jul 16, 2011 10:11pm
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mhs95_06

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Jul 16, 2011 10:16 PM
Albert's 2 run HR when his team was down by one wasn't enough to get the win last night, but his 3 run HR with his team down by 1 tonight was enough!

They talk about giving extra out with errors. The Cards gave the Reds at least 3 extra tonight(although one was a wrong call by the ump - I agree with I92 about Brantley being messed up), but Reds baserunners gave Carpenter two key outs back!
Jul 16, 2011 10:16pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 10:20 PM
After watch Baseball Tonight....Carpenter remains #1 on the pissy list....but John Lackey is giving him a run....goodness
Jul 16, 2011 10:20pm
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mhs95_06

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Jul 16, 2011 10:32 PM
Ironman92;831900 wrote:The HR to Pujols falls on Bronson not the ump.

I thought with good pitchers and good hitters the count is "everything"! That call makes the difference between 2-1 or 1-2. It probably makes a lot of difference in the pitching and hitting strategy. Although if you subscribe to my theory why he pitched to Pujols in stead of walking him, so he doesn't have to give in to him and can try to get him to go for a bad pitch, then it doesn't make sense for him to leave that low side HR pitch over that much of the plate.

Just watched Bronson's post game comments and he said he was more concerned about Holliday beating him than Pujols(just like Brantley said early in the game), and that that HR pitch was on the low side where he wanted it, but caught too much of the plate.

So he made two mistakes that inning. First leaving a 0-2 pitch to Carpenter dead over the middle, and then the one to Albert for the HR.
Jul 16, 2011 10:32pm
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Ironman92

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Jul 16, 2011 10:36 PM
mhs95_06;831931 wrote:I thought with good pitchers and good hitters the count is "everything"! That call makes the difference between 2-1 or 1-2. It probably makes a lot of difference in the pitching and hitting strategy. Although if you subscribe to my theory why he pitched to Pujols in stead of walking him, so he doesn't have to give in to him and can try to get him to go for a bad pitch, then it doesn't make sense for him to leave that low side HR pitch over that much of the plate.

Just watched Bronson's post game comments and he said he was more concerned about Holliday beating him than Pujols(just like Brantley said early in the game), and that that HR pitch was on the low side where he wanted it, but caught too much of the plate.

So he made two mistakes that inning. First leaving a 0-2 pitch to Carpenter dead over the middle, and then the one to Albert for the HR.

I sincerely apologize for being lazy....and yes the count is critically important....BUT not as important as location and Bronson missed his spot by a solid 6-8 inches and that ball was in the dead center of the plate....low in the zone...but he missed his spot bad and he missed it to the hitter's good which you can't get away with much with Pujols.
Jul 16, 2011 10:36pm
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mhs95_06

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Jul 17, 2011 12:47 AM
Which of the following position players on the Reds 40 man roster would you not trade for John Jay straight-up one for one?

2 Zack Cozart R-R 6'0" 195 Aug 12, 1985
25 Juan Francisco * L-R 6'2" 240 Jun 24, 1987
7 Paul Janish * R-R 6'2" 200 Oct 12, 1982
4 Brandon Phillips R-R 6'0" 205 Jun 28, 1981
32 Jay Bruce L-L 6'3" 225 Apr 3, 1987
31 Jonny Gomes R-R 6'1" 225 Nov 22, 1980
28 Chris Heisey R-R 6'0" 225 Dec 14, 1984
26 Jeremy Hermida L-R 6'3" 220 Jan 30, 1984
15 Fred Lewis L-R 6'2" 200 Dec 9, 1980
6 Drew Stubbs R-R 6'4" 200 Oct 4, 1984
Jul 17, 2011 12:47am
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se-alum

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Jul 17, 2011 12:57 AM
mhs95_06;831966 wrote:Which of the following position players on the Reds 40 man roster would you not trade for John Jay straight-up one for one?

2 Zack Cozart R-R 6'0" 195 Aug 12, 1985
25 Juan Francisco * L-R 6'2" 240 Jun 24, 1987
7 Paul Janish * R-R 6'2" 200 Oct 12, 1982
4 Brandon Phillips R-R 6'0" 205 Jun 28, 1981
32 Jay Bruce L-L 6'3" 225 Apr 3, 1987
31 Jonny Gomes R-R 6'1" 225 Nov 22, 1980
28 Chris Heisey R-R 6'0" 225 Dec 14, 1984
26 Jeremy Hermida L-R 6'3" 220 Jan 30, 1984
15 Fred Lewis L-R 6'2" 200 Dec 9, 1980
6 Drew Stubbs R-R 6'4" 200 Oct 4, 1984
If I had to take 1, it would be Bruce. Cozart and Phillips would be off limits as well, if we get to pick more than one.
Jul 17, 2011 12:57am
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TigerNation10

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Jul 17, 2011 2:22 AM
mhs95_06;831966 wrote:Which of the following position players on the Reds 40 man roster would you not trade for John Jay straight-up one for one?

2 Zack Cozart R-R 6'0" 195 Aug 12, 1985
25 Juan Francisco * L-R 6'2" 240 Jun 24, 1987
7 Paul Janish * R-R 6'2" 200 Oct 12, 1982
4 Brandon Phillips R-R 6'0" 205 Jun 28, 1981
32 Jay Bruce L-L 6'3" 225 Apr 3, 1987
31 Jonny Gomes R-R 6'1" 225 Nov 22, 1980
28 Chris Heisey R-R 6'0" 225 Dec 14, 1984
26 Jeremy Hermida L-R 6'3" 220 Jan 30, 1984
15 Fred Lewis L-R 6'2" 200 Dec 9, 1980
6 Drew Stubbs R-R 6'4" 200 Oct 4, 1984
Everyone except Janish, Hermida, Lewis, and Gomes.
Jul 17, 2011 2:22am
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mhs95_06

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Jul 17, 2011 9:34 PM
mhs95_06;831966 wrote:Which of the following position players on the Reds 40 man roster would you not trade for John Jay straight-up one for one?

2 Zack Cozart R-R 6'0" 195 Aug 12, 1985
25 Juan Francisco * L-R 6'2" 240 Jun 24, 1987
7 Paul Janish * R-R 6'2" 200 Oct 12, 1982
4 Brandon Phillips R-R 6'0" 205 Jun 28, 1981
32 Jay Bruce L-L 6'3" 225 Apr 3, 1987
31 Jonny Gomes R-R 6'1" 225 Nov 22, 1980
28 Chris Heisey R-R 6'0" 225 Dec 14, 1984
26 Jeremy Hermida L-R 6'3" 220 Jan 30, 1984
15 Fred Lewis L-R 6'2" 200 Dec 9, 1980
6 Drew Stubbs R-R 6'4" 200 Oct 4, 1984

I'd trade any one on the list except Bruce or Stubbs.


Reasons why I would trade these:

Phillips contract is not very favorable.

Cozart is basking in his ML "honeymoon" and if he went the Reds would still have a very serviceable Janish who is a better defender and I don't think when things balance out there is that much difference in offense.

The fairest for both teams would be Jay for Heisey. It would better balance both team's righty/lefty balance. I like Jay a lot better than Heisey. And it would be good to get Dewitt and drop Lewis so they wouldn't have to carry 5 exclusively OFs. And Dewitt would be the only lefty hitting infielder who could spell starters when righties are on the mound, rather than always having to spell them with the all right handed infielders. There are no lefty hitting middle infielders on even the 40 man roster.
Jul 17, 2011 9:34pm
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jordo212000

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Jul 17, 2011 10:30 PM
The Cardinals aren't trading Jay. You need him to spell Berkman and Holliday and on top of that LaRussa isn't in love with Rasmus
Jul 17, 2011 10:30pm
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mhs95_06

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Jul 17, 2011 10:34 PM
jordo212000;832767 wrote:The Cardinals aren't trading Jay. You need him to spell Berkman and Holliday and on top of that LaRussa isn't in love with Rasmus

I wouldn't think they would trade Jay either, but I thought it'd be fun to think about who the reds would give up for him.
Jul 17, 2011 10:34pm