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dave
Posts: 4,558
Jun 29, 2011 11:35am
If you ride Gomes through his slump you have to ride him while he's hot. Heisey didn't exactly light it up other than 1 game. The other problem is Lewis is playing well and he knows how to work the count, he's the only guy who is an ideal leadoff hitter right now. I'd be giving Stubbs and Bruce a little more time off, mainly Stubbs.
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thavoice
Posts: 14,376
Jun 29, 2011 11:35am
Cannot argue those points, and that was what I was thinking as well.
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crab42
Posts: 66
Jun 29, 2011 11:50am
It's only a matter of time before Gomes ends up back in the gutter... He's valuable against LHP but if you give him extended ABs he eventually becomes exposed. Heisey still hasn't been given the chance to be a consistent starter. You can't judge a guy on 3 or 4 starts in a row.
As for Stubbs and Bruce, I'd play them everyday... Stubbs is going through a spell where he's stuggling to make contact but his defense, speed, and slugging is something this lineup needs. Especially when you're getting next to nothing from SS, 3rd, and LF (about half the time). Bruce hasn't been the same player he was in May, but Votto has struggled in front of him and it seems that everyone in the lineup has had a prolonged slump. He's still riding an .850 OPS and bringing plus defense. I don't think the Gomes, Heisey, Lewis triumvirate is an answer to the Bruce-Stubbs question.
As for Stubbs and Bruce, I'd play them everyday... Stubbs is going through a spell where he's stuggling to make contact but his defense, speed, and slugging is something this lineup needs. Especially when you're getting next to nothing from SS, 3rd, and LF (about half the time). Bruce hasn't been the same player he was in May, but Votto has struggled in front of him and it seems that everyone in the lineup has had a prolonged slump. He's still riding an .850 OPS and bringing plus defense. I don't think the Gomes, Heisey, Lewis triumvirate is an answer to the Bruce-Stubbs question.
Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Jun 29, 2011 11:54am
Both Bruce and Stubbs did a nice job of adjusting to Price and compacting the swing to make good contact late in the game.
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crab42
Posts: 66
Jun 29, 2011 12:02pm
Stubbs is a guess hitter at this point in his career... When he's confindent and guessing right the results are much different. I would like to see him trust himself more as a hitter to read and react to the pitch, but that could come with experience. If not he's a .250/.330/.450 guy that will play a gold glove CF. Not a leadoff hitter, but that would look real nice in 5-6-7 hole. Even with the strikeout total climbing, he's much more of an offensive force than the guy hitting cleanup today.
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thavoice
Posts: 14,376
Jun 29, 2011 12:05pm
Waas stubbs a K victim in the minors?
If so, I dont think we will see much improvement in that aspect of his game.
Man, when he was going well, quite a few games with 2+ tims on base, this team is rolling. I would love for him to clean up his game offensively a little bit and be able to be leadoff, but most likely is better in the 5+ hole
If so, I dont think we will see much improvement in that aspect of his game.
Man, when he was going well, quite a few games with 2+ tims on base, this team is rolling. I would love for him to clean up his game offensively a little bit and be able to be leadoff, but most likely is better in the 5+ hole
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
Jun 29, 2011 12:10pm
I've been disappointed in Heisey since he has been getting regular PT. However I would agree he really needs another week to prove he can or can't play everyday. Too early at this point.
Lewis has been solid in his limited PT though. Dude knows how to work the count
Lewis has been solid in his limited PT though. Dude knows how to work the count
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dave
Posts: 4,558
Jun 29, 2011 12:13pm
I believe Stubbs has always struck out a lot. He got up here based solely on his D and the shitty play of Willy T.
Heisey I don't think K'ed much. He also never really was that impressive outside that one great half year he had at AA when he was named player of the year. That's why Walt and Dusty haven't really given him a fair shot.
Heisey I don't think K'ed much. He also never really was that impressive outside that one great half year he had at AA when he was named player of the year. That's why Walt and Dusty haven't really given him a fair shot.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Jun 29, 2011 12:13pm
Stubbs struck out alot in the minors as well.thavoice;817509 wrote:Waas stubbs a K victim in the minors?
If so, I dont think we will see much improvement in that aspect of his game.
Man, when he was going well, quite a few games with 2+ tims on base, this team is rolling. I would love for him to clean up his game offensively a little bit and be able to be leadoff, but most likely is better in the 5+ hole
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crab42
Posts: 66
Jun 29, 2011 12:14pm
Stubbs always struck out at an elevated rate in the minors... Don't get me wrong, he's not going to be a slap hitter but his K's really don't concern me. He always had a decent walk rate and until this recent stretch he kept that up even with his K's. I think he'll improve a little bit because he has great bat speed but he's not a Juan Pierre type of guy. And I really don't want him to become a bunting/slap hitter... I think he's more productive as a walking/k-ing/slugging gold glove outfielder hitting a little further down in the order.
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thavoice
Posts: 14,376
Jun 29, 2011 12:22pm
Thought it was him who Kd alot. Just isnt a leadoff guy. He got into a rut there where he looked like Gomes in swinging at awful pitches he couldnt hit with a boat ore.
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jun 29, 2011 12:26pm
Votto should be shot for getting picked off like that.
Edinson has a pretty solid 1st.
Edinson has a pretty solid 1st.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Jun 29, 2011 12:28pm
wildcats20;817547 wrote:Votto should be shot for getting picked off like that.
Edinson has a pretty solid 1st.
Any FIRST inning where Edinson doesn't go through hell is a good thing.
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crab42
Posts: 66
Jun 29, 2011 12:28pm
If Stubbs had a high BA and OBP, he'd be one of the most valuable players in all of baseball... He is what he is... Stick him in the 5-6 hole and enjoy what he can do and don't dwell on what he can't is my advice to Reds fans.
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crab42
Posts: 66
Jun 29, 2011 12:36pm
It's the 2nd inning and I'm ready to switch over to the Rays radio broadcast... Marty and Cowbitch are driving me crazy! When they played the Yankees I listened to John Sterling and was more jealous over the Yanks radio broadcast than their payroll.
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
Jun 29, 2011 12:40pm
Yeah I don't mind Stubbs striking out nearly as much as other posters. I know what he can bring to the table and I accept the Ks. He's not perfect but he should improve
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jun 29, 2011 12:48pm
crab42;817559 wrote:It's the 2nd inning and I'm ready to switch over to the Rays radio broadcast... Marty and Cowbitch are driving me crazy! When they played the Yankees I listened to John Sterling and was more jealous over the Yanks radio broadcast than their payroll.
Can you not WATCH it?
Not that Kelch and Welsh are any good though.
swamisez
Posts: 1,990
Jun 29, 2011 12:51pm
Don't mind the K's when he isn't in the leadoff spot. When at the top of the order, he has to do a better job of working count and putting ball in play. He is not a leadoff hitter at this point, Fred Lewis IMO is best suited for it. Swing is shorter, works gap to gap.
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crab42
Posts: 66
Jun 29, 2011 12:56pm
Nope, I'm at work... I have the MLB at bat app on the Iphone going. I like Kelch and Welsh... Kelch calls the game and Creeper normally avoids ignorant rants about player's shortcomings.wildcats20;817571 wrote:Can you not WATCH it?
Not that Kelch and Welsh are any good though.
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jun 29, 2011 12:59pm
crab42;817584 wrote:Nope, I'm at work... I have the MLB at bat app on the Iphone going. I like Kelch and Welsh... Kelch calls the game and Creeper normally avoids ignorant rants about player's shortcomings.
Well I went to Reds.com and there was a live look in. Not sure how long it lasted though, I closed it right away.
swamisez
Posts: 1,990
Jun 29, 2011 1:06pm
Lessons in Futility (How to botch a great start to an inning) by the Cincinnati Reds.
Votto singles, Rolen Singles,
now Bruce K on 3 pitches
Gomes K
and likely a pop up
Votto singles, Rolen Singles,
now Bruce K on 3 pitches
Gomes K
and likely a pop up
Midstate01
Posts: 14,766
Jun 29, 2011 1:07pm
Really good at bats by votto and rolen followed by terrible at bats by Bruce and Gomes
swamisez
Posts: 1,990
Jun 29, 2011 1:08pm
I know he is Jay Bruce, but James Shields has thrown 3 complete game shut outs. Put a dent in the scoreboard early. Bunt the runners to 2nd and 3rd, then Johnny Shortens up and puts a ball in play. 1-0 with two outs runner on 2nd, maybe Hanigan gets something through.
They are playing baseball like its 1998, gorilla ball is done. Manufacture manufacture manufacture.
They are playing baseball like its 1998, gorilla ball is done. Manufacture manufacture manufacture.
swamisez
Posts: 1,990
Jun 29, 2011 1:09pm
Hanigan bails out Bruce and Gomes.
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jun 29, 2011 1:09pm
Nice!!