BR1986FB;781785 wrote:I have no doubt of his hatred for Cleveland. Let him talk. We all have opinions here. But I do find the Steelers/Mets combination to be comical.

C'mon now....you're not stupid. I made a comment about pulling for the Mets if I were to chose between them and the Yankees and of course CoA put it in his log and twisted it. I'm a Pirates fan for fucks sake. I will be goin to the game at Citi next weekend.

And yeah I'm trying to "fit in" by being a Mets fan in a city of 8.5 million. lol

Automatik;781787 wrote:lol the personal attacks repetitive acts by our favorite OC family....right on cue! CoA....stop stalking me. Its weird.

Contrary to most of your beliefs...I don't hate Cleveland, just the majority of the fans. I was pulling for them the last few years. I respect the their dedication and was hoping FINALLY would get a title.

Sorry Cleveland isn't a very desirable market or city to play in. If you can't see that then no reason to explain it any further.

Whats desirable about Pittsburgh? The weather and fanbase in both cities are very similar. The difference isnt what you would like to think that it is.

KR1245;781799 wrote:Whats desirable about Pittsburgh? The weather and fanbase in both cities are very similar. The difference isnt what you would like to think that it is.

I was referring to NBA markets, where for the most part, the big ones rule. But I'm happy to see a change with the rise of teams like OKC and Memphis.

If you want to go further and talk about other sports all you need to look at is the decisions and results by owners and execs for the Browns and Indians.

LA going after Ettore Messina as an assistant.....considered the top coach in Europe. Never heard of him.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19913

I saw on another log that Popovich also wants him on SA's staff.

This will be very interesting to see how things play out with Mike Brown & Kobe. I'll think they'll both be on the same page, defensively, but Brown NEEDS an "offensive coordinator", so to speak. I bitched & moaned for him to get one when he was in Cleveland.

KR1245;781729 wrote:I can see both sides of the argument. Lebron made a comment a couple days ago about his current teammates and his teammates in Cleveland. He said that he's enjoying this because he doesnt have to be "the guy" the majority of the time. He can pass it Wade or Bosh and "get out of the way".

Do you think MJ, Bird or Magic would ever make a comment like that? I think thats the point that BR is trying to make. I dont think a true "leader" would do or say that

A true leader doesn't do everything himself. Part of what made Bird and Magic great was their ability to involve everyone and they also had the benefit of having at least one other "great" player to support them. The difference that LeBron is able to see and point out (having someone else he can rely on) is not something that Bird or Magic ever experienced and his former situation is not a circumstance in which Jordan ever won.

For Magic's first two championships, he was the 3rd leading scorer on the team over the whole season. Hell, in Magic's legendary Finals Game 6 his rookie season, Jamaal Wilkes scored 37 pts and had 10 rebounds. It is much easier to focus on your own game when you don't have to feel like you are the only option.

The thing is, the fans are the ones who want LeBron to be something other than what he is. You wanted him to be your "leader", you wanted him to bring you a championship, etc. The fact that he isn't Jordan or Bird or Magic doesn't make him a failure - as a player or a leader. There is a reason that your point-of-references are the top handful of players EVER. It isn't James going around saying he wants to be better than those guys or trying to make sure he gets in that company - and frankly, if he was saying those things his teammates would have a much greater reason to hate him because he'd be a selfish ass. He said he wants to win championships. And nobody has ever done that alone. I'll bet he's not going to lose any sleep over not being Jordan, Bird, or Magic if he does happen to win multiple titles in Miami.

Right now, before he's won a thing you're already putting him in the all-time great conversation. Does it really matter whether he's 1, 2, 3, or 4 on that list?

BR1986FB;781736 wrote:Yeah, that were mostly drafted or acquired through trades. You would have never seen Jordan call Bird and say "hey, let's go form a AAU team in Detroit with Zeke."

Those guys played in big markets and had no need to move. They also had teammates that were a little better than Mo Williams and Shaq's decaying corpse

Automatik;781825 wrote:LA going after Ettore Messina as an assistant.....considered the top coach in Europe. Never heard of him.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19913

I saw on another log that Popovich also wants him on SA's staff.

This would be a positive as far as trying to get some Euro guys over to LA.

But as BR said, Brown is going to have to bring in an O Coordinator.

Br may have spoke too early. He's certainly clutch and certainly the leader for Miami. What a performance, like or dislike.

thedynasty1998;782691 wrote:Br may have spoke too early. He's certainly clutch and certainly the leader for Miami. What a performance, like or dislike.

Just because I said he "isn't clutch" doesn't mean he can't "become clutch." My God, the guys skillset SCREAMS that he SHOULD BE clutch but up until now he hasn't proven it. Maybe he was last night. Didn't see it but ONE game doesn't make him "clutch."

BR1986FB;782866 wrote:Just because I said he "isn't clutch" doesn't mean he can't "become clutch." My God, the guys skillset SCREAMS that he SHOULD BE clutch but up until now he hasn't proven it. Maybe he was last night. Didn't see it but ONE game doesn't make him "clutch."

He did it in Cleveland. He did it the whole Chicago series. He has a history now of being a closer.

thedynasty1998;782888 wrote:He did it in Cleveland. He did it the whole Chicago series. He has a history now of being a closer.

When did he do it in Cleveland? One long jumper against Orlando to win a game on a buzzer beater.

BR1986FB;782866 wrote:Just because I said he "isn't clutch" doesn't mean he can't "become clutch." My God, the guys skillset SCREAMS that he SHOULD BE clutch but up until now he hasn't proven it.

Since I disagree with you so much on the LeBron debate, I thought I'd chime in once when I do agree. I said this exact same thing the last few years about LeBron (naturally, I was called a "hater"). If you'd watch, I think you would see that he's developing into "that" player and there was a distinct difference in his play this series, numbers aside. But the nice run he's on now doesn't rewrite the last seven years when he simply didn't get it done (and for that matter, he's still gotta do in one more series to even begin changing the lingering perception).

enigmaax;782914 wrote:Since I disagree with you so much on the LeBron debate, I thought I'd chime in once when I do agree. I said this exact same thing the last few years about LeBron (naturally, I was called a "hater"). If you'd watch, I think you would see that he's developing into "that" player and there was a distinct difference in his play this series, numbers aside. But the nice run he's on now doesn't rewrite the last seven years when he simply didn't get it done (and for that matter, he's still gotta do in one more series to even begin changing the lingering perception).

And that's highly possible. Don't doubt it one bit. And if it has happened, my only question was "why didn't you do it in Cleveland?" Sure, the supporting cast may not be quite the same as Miami's but he had plenty of chances to be "that" (clutch) player in Cleveland. He's always had the PHYSICAL ability. I've always questioned what was betweeen the ears and the area that "thumps" in his chest (heart).

The reason he was able to do it last night was because Wade stepped up and hit that 4 point play. He has help.

Remember when he took the Cavs to the Finals? How about when he scored like 30 straight in the playoff game. The Cavs were in games late because Lebron would put them in that position.

BR1986FB;782921 wrote:And that's highly possible. Don't doubt it one bit. And if it has happened, my only question was "why didn't you do it in Cleveland?" Sure, the supporting cast may not be quite the same as Miami's but he had plenty of chances to be "that" (clutch) player in Cleveland. He's always had the PHYSICAL ability. I've always questioned what was betweeen the ears and the area that "thumps" in his chest (heart).

Again, not ready to anoint him Mr. Big Time yet, but if he does establish himself on a different level this year I think there are a couple factors. One is experience. Yes, he's played for seven years or whatever before this - you probably wanted that experience to pay off before now but he wasn't in a position every single one of those years to learn how to handle it. And even the greats sometimes have to fail a few times before getting it right. (Jordan, as an example.)

And part of that failure, in my opinion, can be attributed to his lack of comfort in that role. It isn't just that the supporting role wasn't the same, it is that he didn't necessarily know how to balance his skillset with that supporting cast. He really isn't a selfish player, but he probably needed to be in Cleveland. So there were times when trying to be that guy went against his instincts. Ultimately, he probably overthought a lot of what he was doing instead of just playing. Now, he doesn't feel like he has to be "the guy", so the pressure is off and he can just do what comes naturally.....which strangely, ends up with his being "the guy".

To me, he just looked much more relaxed this entire series than in past years. And its much easier to remain poised when you're playing that loose. You've pointed out the passion of Cleveland fans and you obviously know the personal stake Cleveland fans felt they had in LeBron. He knew it too. What most of us will never know is the pressure that of carrying the hopes and dreams of an entire state on your shoulders brings and how it impacts your psyche.

thedynasty1998;782951 wrote:The reason he was able to do it last night was because Wade stepped up and hit that 4 point play. He has help.

Remember when he took the Cavs to the Finals? How about when he scored like 30 straight in the playoff game. The Cavs were in games late because Lebron would put them in that position.

Do agree with this, too. Clutch doesn't exclusively mean hitting the last shot or whatever. He did a lot of things right for Cleveland that he doesn't get credit for and had a lot of the little things magnified when they didn't win.

thedynasty1998;782951 wrote:The reason he was able to do it last night was because Wade stepped up and hit that 4 point play. He has help.

Remember when he took the Cavs to the Finals? How about when he scored like 30 straight in the playoff game. The Cavs were in games late because Lebron would put them in that position.

Agreed 100%

BR1986FB;782891 wrote:When did he do it in Cleveland? One long jumper against Orlando to win a game on a buzzer beater.

I seem to remember multiple game winners against the Wizards. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure game 5 against the Pistons is the definition of clutch.

The whole killer instinct thing is a joke, all it comes down to is missing and making shots. If Lebron misses shots he has no killer instinct, if he makes them he is clutch, what a joke.

robj55;783474 wrote: all it comes down to is missing and making shots

Well, duh. Because thats the difference between winning and losing.

enigmaax;783565 wrote:Well, duh. Because thats the difference between winning and losing.

missing my point....

robj55;783474 wrote:The whole killer instinct thing is a joke, all it comes down to is missing and making shots. If Lebron misses shots he has no killer instinct, if he makes them he is clutch, what a joke.

Lebron shouldnt settle for jumpers considering he can get to the line at ease. Thats half the knock on him in game winning situations i think

Hb31187;783792 wrote:Lebron shouldnt settle for jumpers considering he can get to the line at ease. Thats half the knock on him in game winning situations i think

No, the knock on him was he wasn't clutch and couldn't hit game winning shots. There is also Skip Bayless' theory (later repeated by BR) that he was afraid to drive and be fouled and have to shoot free throws.

karen lotz;783795 wrote:No, the knock on him was he wasn't clutch and couldn't hit game winning shots. There is also Skip Bayless' theory (later repeated by BR) that he was afraid to drive and be fouled and have to shoot free throws.

Skip Bayless is a moron and only says things for shock value to get attention and ratings. He said today on First and 10 that Wade was the one that won them the game last night and gave no credit to Lebron at all, also said that Wade is the leader of the team. Newsflash Skip, Lebron is the leader and closer of that team, watch a game.