BR1986FB;770007 wrote:Good post. I think MOST fans are over the "THAT he left part" but the disgust still lingers from the "HOW he left."

Exactly...Cleveland, for the most part, is pretty over LeBron leaving and LeBron in general. I mean look at the difference in crowd between the Heat's first game in Cleveland and the second. Most Cavs fans, I believe, are looking forward especially with having two lottery picks and finishing the season on a decent note. People dislike LeBron because of HOW he left. They were obviously upset at his decision to go elsewhere, especially since it came on the heels of such success (making it different from a lot of other upset star goes to other team instances) but people would've gotten over it pretty quickly if his exit matched the perception they had of LeBron as a good/classy person. The Decision and everything after it changed that perception as well as lifted the blinders of a lot of the negative things LeBron said/did even while he was in Cleveland.

wes_mantooth;770015 wrote:I am pretty much over the whole situation. He is a great player, but he is 8 years in and will never be the player that he was hyped to be. He is not Jordan or magic.... he is simply the best player of his generation. But now... to me, his antics are comical and he is on another team that i do not follow.

When you put the stats up, how has he not lived up to the hype? I agree he's not Jordan or Magic. We need to stop doing that all together as sports fans. He's LeBron. Same way Peterson isn't Barry Sanders. He's Adrian Peterson. The game is different, the times are different, there are only about an infinite number of variables. But at the end of the day, when you look at the stats, it's impossible to say he hasn't lived up to the hype. Unless you were stupid enough to buy into the hype that he was going to average 40, 20 and 15 and win the title every year he was in the league.

The Boss;770020 wrote:When you put the stats up, how has he not lived up to the hype? I agree he's not Jordan or Magic. We need to stop doing that all together as sports fans. He's LeBron. Same way Peterson isn't Barry Sanders. He's Adrian Peterson. The game is different, the times are different, there are only about an infinite number of variables. But at the end of the day, when you look at the stats, it's impossible to say he hasn't lived up to the hype. Unless you were stupid enough to buy into the hype that he was going to average 40, 20 and 15 and win the title every year he was in the league.

The hype was greatest of all time.... he is not. It was unfair to label him as that.... but the media coverage was unbelievable.

wes_mantooth;770015 wrote: He is a great player, but he is 8 years in and will never be the player that he was hyped to be. .

Lemme get that kush you're smoking.

Lebron has been as good as advertised, if not better.

The Boss;770020 wrote:When you put the stats up, how has he not lived up to the hype? I agree he's not Jordan or Magic. We need to stop doing that all together as sports fans. He's LeBron. Same way Peterson isn't Barry Sanders. He's Adrian Peterson. The game is different, the times are different, there are only about an infinite number of variables. But at the end of the day, when you look at the stats, it's impossible to say he hasn't lived up to the hype. Unless you were stupid enough to buy into the hype that he was going to average 40, 20 and 15 and win the title every year he was in the league.

He's becoming the dan marino of the nba. Great stats no ring.

How do you know he isn't? He's put up numbers that say he's right up there with them--has plenty of chances to win plenty of rings and is sitting in a good situation. Could set records for things like career points. He may not be the GOAT, but that isn't realistic hype for ANYONE. That's you being stupid enough to buy into that hype. Realistic hype said that he would be pretty much exactly what he is, he's lived up to it.

Y-Town Steelhound;770016 wrote: They were obviously upset at his decision to go elsewhere, especially since it came on the heels of such success (making it different from a lot of other upset star goes to other team instances) but people would've gotten over it pretty quickly if his exit matched the perception they had of LeBron as a good/classy person. The Decision and everything after it changed that perception as well as lifted the blinders of a lot of the negative things LeBron said/did even while he was in Cleveland.

Agreed. Seems like a lot of the tantrums/petulance were swept under the rug while he was here because they "had to keep Bron and his entourage happy." Hopefully that was a "lesson learned" for Gilbert and his people. No player is above the franchise. Sure, Lebron was a twat but Gilbert and his group are no better for enabling him.

wes_mantooth;770021 wrote:The hype was greatest of all time.... he is not.

He might be the most talented player in the history of basketball. Best basketball player? No, not even close. But most talented? You're going to be hardpressed to convince me someone is more talented offensively and defensively.

Raw Dawgin' it;770024 wrote:He's becoming the dan marino of the nba. Great stats no ring.

You do realize that he could play 10 more good years with relative ease. And you're writing him off already, and it took Jordan 7 to win it in an NBA that wasn't nearly as deep. He had to wait for dynasties to get out of the way before he could. Got Pippen, those dynasties got out of his way and the rest is history. LeBron joins Bosh and Wade, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics are all getting out of the way. I wouldn't write him off just yet, it's a little premature. It's not like he just retired and we're having a discussion about how he didn't win any rings.

lhslep134;770027 wrote:He might be the most talented player in the history of basketball. Best basketball player? No, not even close. But most talented? You're going to be hardpressed to convince me someone is more talented offensively and defensively.

Yeah... this is kinda where i am at with him. If he had Jordan's will power, he would be in that conversation. In Today's buddy buddy NBA, that just doesn't seem to happen

wes_mantooth;770029 wrote:Yeah... this is kinda where i am at with him. If he had Jordan's will power, he would be in that conversation. In Today's buddy buddy NBA, that just doesn't seem to happen

That's because in those days it was more about the competition. They were making pennies compared to these guys now, like it or not, they're all a big group collecting a pay check for their entertainment value. The fans are responsible for turning it into that by dumping so much money into the NBA.

wes_mantooth;770029 wrote:Yeah... this is kinda where i am at with him. If he had Jordan's will power, he would be in that conversation. In Today's buddy buddy NBA, that just doesn't seem to happen

+1...I hate what the league has become. I'd love to see Larry Bird, Jordan, Rick Mahorn or Bill Laimbeer hug someone pre/post game. lol

The Boss;770031 wrote:That's because in those days it was more about the competition. They were making pennies compared to these guys now, like it or not, they're all a big group collecting a pay check for their entertainment value. The fans are responsible for turning it into that by dumping so much money into the NBA.

I know and i don't get it.... supposedly, a lot of teams are losing money.

Teams maybe, but not players.

The Boss;770036 wrote:Teams maybe, but not players.

Right, but why are the salaries or cap so high if the big wigs are losing money? The NBA isn't the only sport where it happens.

wes_mantooth;770041 wrote:Right, but why are the salaries or cap so high if the big wigs are losing money? The NBA isn't the only sport where it happens.

Because big market teams are still making money. It's the small markets that are losing money--so they'll have to find a solution to that, either get rid of the franchise or do what baseball did. But the overall pot isn't necessarily getting smaller even if revenues for some teams are.

The Boss;770028 wrote:You do realize that he could play 10 more good years with relative ease. And you're writing him off already, and it took Jordan 7 to win it in an NBA that wasn't nearly as deep. He had to wait for dynasties to get out of the way before he could. Got Pippen, those dynasties got out of his way and the rest is history. LeBron joins Bosh and Wade, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics are all getting out of the way. I wouldn't write him off just yet, it's a little premature. It's not like he just retired and we're having a discussion about how he didn't win any rings.

He could easily play ten years, but he won't be able to play at this level for another 10. I don't think he'll win one with the heat. I think Chicago will be getting stronger and be too much for them. Also think any team that comes out of the west will be favored to beat any team that comes out of the east. Just as you said, it's a much deeper league now than it use to be and i think that will work against him. Just don't think he'll win a ring. He certainly can but i dont think it'll happen

Raw Dawgin' it;770046 wrote:He could easily play ten years, but he won't be able to play at this level for another 10. I don't think he'll win one with the heat. I think Chicago will be getting stronger and be too much for them. Also think any team that comes out of the west will be favored to beat any team that comes out of the east. Just as you said, it's a much deeper league now than it use to be and i think that will work against him. Just don't think he'll win a ring. He certainly can but i dont think it'll happen

Miami will get better. Chicago does have a nice thing going on there, but Miami will definitely improve in the coming years. And I still think Riley will come down to the sideline again, or Jackson will come to Miami. And I disagree that any team coming out of the West will be favored. I haven't thought that for a few years and certainly I don't now. The best defense is played in the East by FAR. I think the ECF might as well be the Finals this year--whichever team wins it will beat whichever team wins the WCF IMO. This Big 3 thing is difficult to sort out too, where the ball is going to go, the right plays to run, situational stuff and basic chemistry. That will all improve next year as well, and I think everyone has to admit that even if it ends against the Bulls, the Big 3 in Miami had a good season. I know we gauge everything on titles but if you make it to the final 4, you make it to the final 4. You've accomplished more than all but 2 teams in the NBA.

And I do think that LeBron will be at his current level for at least another 6-7 years. And in 10 years he's still going to be pretty good. Although it's damn near impossible to say how a guy will age and for all we know he could have a career ender in the next game or die in a car accident tonight.

The Boss;770044 wrote:Because big market teams are still making money. It's the small markets that are losing money--so they'll have to find a solution to that, either get rid of the franchise or do what baseball did. But the overall pot isn't necessarily getting smaller even if revenues for some teams are.

The NBA itself lost 400 million dollars last season and it's rumored to have lost 300 million this season. As a business, that's not good.

The league has to find a solution for that or it will be a problem, especially with the new CBA coming up

The Boss;770049 wrote:Miami will get better. This Big 3 thing is difficult to sort out too, where the ball is going to go, the right plays to run, situational stuff and basic chemistry. That will all improve next year as well.

What in LBJ's career leads you to believe that he is going to suddenly start to run plays in the half court set when the game is on the line?

wes_mantooth;770041 wrote:Right, but why are the salaries or cap so high if the big wigs are losing money? The NBA isn't the only sport where it happens.

Hence the upcoming lockout. I could see the NBA locking out for an entire season, if not more. This may be Lebron's last chance to win a ring, and there's no way they are getting past the Bulls much less beating OKC/Dallas.

First time poster on this mega-thread. The back and forth banter in nearly nauseating. Let me just say this as a representative of what I think many Cleveland fans feel:
I have beena Cleveland fan for 50 years. indians/Browns/Cavs. have been thorugh every curse/bad luck imaginable. Am hoping I see a championship in some sport---ANY sport---before i die, but the odds of that happening I honetsly believe are infinitely small. For whatever reason, Cleveland has NO good and luck and all bad luck, whether it be owners, managers,coaches, players--whatever. Even still, I'll root for the Cleveland teams till i die, holding out for that ONE special season, knowing the odds of actually seeing it are low.
Was a huge Cavs fan, and a huge Lebron fan. He was, and is, one of the most talented players Cleveland will ever see in any sport. With the way the NBA was set up, he HAD EVERY RIGHT to leave as a free agent. Was hoping he wouldn't leave, but realized he could--and might. Had he "done it the right way"---told the fans thanks for all the good times, etc etc , and showed JUST AN OUNCE OF HUMILITY in doing so, i'd have been ticked that he left, but would have gotten over it. may even have found a way to root for him wherever he went. As it was---the travesty of THE DECISION, the collusion with Wade and Bosh that i fully believe he had decided on years ago, etc etc...made him come across exactly as the egotistical jerk that he apparently was all along, and we either didn't see or was hid from us. That ego --where he essentially flips off the whole of Cleveland fans--is what has made the majority of NE Ohio anti lebron fans. you're a true Cleveland fan, and someone basically flips you off and says "...you", we don't take kindly to. Other Cleveland athletes who left under much less antagonism (e.g. Thome, Manny, etc) got booed for years after. Lebron took it to a whole other level, so got a whole other level of animosity aimed to him, and deservedly so. Almost all the Cleveland fans i know will admit he had every right to leave, the WAY he did it is what brings out the hate. So, I will watch every chance i get to see him play--and lose--just to see him suffer---for some sort of retribution for the way he treated the fans of Cleveland. Especially after the lovefest and the way those 3 paraded around in miami before the season. just show a little respect and humility---tho i realize he knows nothing of either term from the way he was treated like a god from the time he was 12.

First time poster on this mega-thread. The back and forth banter in nearly nauseating. Let me just say this as a representative of what I think many Cleveland fans feel:
I have beena Cleveland fan for 50 years. indians/Browns/Cavs. have been thorugh every curse/bad luck imaginable. Am hoping I see a championship in some sport---ANY sport---before i die, but the odds of that happening I honetsly believe are infinitely small. For whatever reason, Cleveland has NO good and luck and all bad luck, whether it be owners, managers,coaches, players--whatever. Even still, I'll root for the Cleveland teams till i die, holding out for that ONE special season, knowing the odds of actually seeing it are low.
Was a huge Cavs fan, and a huge Lebron fan. He was, and is, one of the most talented players Cleveland will ever see in any sport. With the way the NBA was set up, he HAD EVERY RIGHT to leave as a free agent. Was hoping he wouldn't leave, but realized he could--and might. Had he "done it the right way"---told the fans thanks for all the good times, etc etc , and showed JUST AN OUNCE OF HUMILITY in doing so, i'd have been ticked that he left, but would have gotten over it. may even have found a way to root for him wherever he went. As it was---the travesty of THE DECISION, the collusion with Wade and Bosh that i fully believe he had decided on years ago, etc etc...made him come across exactly as the egotistical jerk that he apparently was all along, and we either didn't see or was hid from us. That ego --where he essentially flips off the whole of Cleveland fans--is what has made the majority of NE Ohio anti lebron fans. you're a true Cleveland fan, and someone basically flips you off and says "...you", we don't take kindly to. Other Cleveland athletes who left under much less antagonism (e.g. Thome, Manny, etc) got booed for years after. Lebron took it to a whole other level, so got a whole other level of animosity aimed to him, and deservedly so. Almost all the Cleveland fans i know will admit he had every right to leave, the WAY he did it is what brings out the hate. So, I will watch every chance i get to see him play--and lose--just to see him suffer---for some sort of retribution for the way he treated the fans of Cleveland. Especially after the lovefest and the way those 3 paraded around in miami before the season. just show a little respect and humility---tho i realize he knows nothing of either term from the way he was treated like a god from the time he was 12.

First time poster on this mega-thread. The back and forth banter in nearly nauseating. Let me just say this as a representative of what I think many Cleveland fans feel:
I have beena Cleveland fan for 50 years. indians/Browns/Cavs. have been thorugh every curse/bad luck imaginable. Am hoping I see a championship in some sport---ANY sport---before i die, but the odds of that happening I honetsly believe are infinitely small. For whatever reason, Cleveland has NO good and luck and all bad luck, whether it be owners, managers,coaches, players--whatever. Even still, I'll root for the Cleveland teams till i die, holding out for that ONE special season, knowing the odds of actually seeing it are low.
Was a huge Cavs fan, and a huge Lebron fan. He was, and is, one of the most talented players Cleveland will ever see in any sport. With the way the NBA was set up, he HAD EVERY RIGHT to leave as a free agent. Was hoping he wouldn't leave, but realized he could--and might. Had he "done it the right way"---told the fans thanks for all the good times, etc etc , and showed JUST AN OUNCE OF HUMILITY in doing so, i'd have been ticked that he left, but would have gotten over it. may even have found a way to root for him wherever he went. As it was---the travesty of THE DECISION, the collusion with Wade and Bosh that i fully believe he had decided on years ago, etc etc...made him come across exactly as the egotistical jerk that he apparently was all along, and we either didn't see or was hid from us. That ego --where he essentially flips off the whole of Cleveland fans--is what has made the majority of NE Ohio anti lebron fans. you're a true Cleveland fan, and someone basically flips you off and says "...you", we don't take kindly to. Other Cleveland athletes who left under much less antagonism (e.g. Thome, Manny, etc) got booed for years after. Lebron took it to a whole other level, so got a whole other level of animosity aimed to him, and deservedly so. Almost all the Cleveland fans i know will admit he had every right to leave, the WAY he did it is what brings out the hate. So, I will watch every chance i get to see him play--and lose--just to see him suffer---for some sort of retribution for the way he treated the fans of Cleveland. Especially after the lovefest and the way those 3 paraded around in miami before the season. just show a little respect and humility---tho i realize he knows nothing of either term from the way he was treated like a god from the time he was 12.
As per the games: The Celtics the Heat beat this year was nowhere near the same team that beat Lebron and the Cavs last year. No Perkins, A KG that looked old, a Rondo that was hurt (a dislocated elbow and he even played AT ALL? Are you kidding me? That guy has some stones!), no Thibs. etc. I don't think this year's heat team beats last yearsCeltics team, but we'll never know of course. Would LOVE to see the Bulls beat the Heat, and the most painful way for the Heat to lose the better: either a sweep, or a heartbreaking last second miss (preferably by Lebron--and yes, i DO think he choked in the Celtics series last year) that would win the game.
The way i see it, Lebron's ego needs a reality check, and painful playoff losses would do the trick nicely.

sorry for the essay..