Terrelle Pryor and the Supplmental Draft?

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Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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14,632 posts
Apr 12, 2011 4:59 PM
lhslep134;739484 wrote:You make this too easy:

Pryor: See Penn State two years ago in Columbus. He blew that game, no doubt about it. So if he's a great QB because of one game, he's a terrible QB because of one game that he blew. Which one is it? You can't have both. One game doesn't mean anything. OSU's body of work the last 3 years is completely because of the team surrounding Pryor, and not Pryor himself, and if you believe otherwise, you're the ONLY one.

I actually disagree with this. It is a combination of both his skill, and the team. Pryor still made big plays at times. So you throw in Bauserman and nothing changes? gtfo
Apr 12, 2011 4:59pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

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Apr 12, 2011 5:04 PM
lhslep134;739491 wrote:No I want him gone because he's a mediocre quarterback. You have nothing but inflated statistics against VASTLY inferior opponents and 2 bowl games in which he had 1 month to be coached up to win as your arguing points, but I have more than 15 games over 3 years that Terrelle Pryor was either mediocre or sucked in.

Oh and your other arguing point? Wins? A team effort, and like I said, from watching wayyyy too much gametape preparing for broadcasts, the team won DESPITE Pryor's mediocrity instead of winning because of him.

Will you please list these 15+ games in which Pryor has been mediocre or sucked in?

Did you ever think that against these extremely inferior opponents, Tressel wants to a) call very manilla plays? b) get the RBs more involved? c) get the other QBs reps?

There's a big difference in putting up poor statistics in a game and not playing well. Going 8/16 for 105 yards may seem like a bad game looking at the statistics, but to me that actually says he wasn't needed and wasn't utilized.
Apr 12, 2011 5:04pm
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Terry_Tate

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Apr 12, 2011 5:12 PM
I don't want to defend Pryor too much, but look at his supporting cast compared to Troy Smith, or any of the QBs in the years before Pryor. Hell, last year they didn't even have a solid #3 receiver, but during Troy Smiths years they had WRs left and right. Boom Herron has improved a ton, but C. Wells, Pittman, Clarett were all better(Pittman is arguable though), and up to the end of the year a lot of people wanted Saine in over Herron. I think Posey makes the NFL, and so will Sanzenbacher, but who else will?
Apr 12, 2011 5:12pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

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Apr 12, 2011 5:14 PM
Terry_Tate;739499 wrote:I don't want to defend Pryor too much, but look at his supporting cast compared to Troy Smith, or any of the QBs in the years before Pryor. Hell, last year they didn't even have a solid #3 receiver, but during Troy Smiths years they had WRs left and right. Boom Herron has improved a ton, but C. Wells, Pittman, Clarett were all better(Pittman is arguable though), and up to the end of the year a lot of people wanted Saine in over Herron. I think Posey makes the NFL, and so will Sanzenbacher, but who else will?

Lol it's such a terrible argument...There is not/has not been much NFL talent surrounding Pryor. Even the biggest Pryor haters can agree to that...not lhs, nope, he watches film! He knows!
Apr 12, 2011 5:14pm
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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Apr 12, 2011 5:16 PM
People just love to bitch. They let the fact that Pryor is an arrogant dumbass interfere their perception of his skills on the field. If he said/did everything they wanted, they would be defending him to the death regarding his on the field performances.

I was actually quite happy with how his progression was coming at the position.
Apr 12, 2011 5:16pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Apr 12, 2011 5:23 PM
SportsAndLady;739502 wrote:Lol it's such a terrible argument...There is not/has not been much NFL talent surrounding Pryor. Even the biggest Pryor haters can agree to that...not lhs, nope, he watches film! He knows!

Brian Hartline, Brian Robiskie, Chris Wells, and who knows who else from this years team play/will play on Sundays. Don't for one second think he doesn't have elite talent around him.

And auto, you said that not me. Put in any quarterback with talent and we do better than conference championship ties. You said Bauserman not me. Bauserman is complete garbage and obviously less talented than Pryor but that doesnt validate Pryor at all.
Apr 12, 2011 5:23pm
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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Apr 12, 2011 5:26 PM
lhslep134;739508 wrote:Brian Hartline, Brian Robiskie, Chris Wells, and who knows who else from this years team play/will play on Sundays. Don't for one second think he doesn't have elite talent around him.

And auto, you said that not me. Put in any quarterback with talent and we do better than conference championship ties. You said Bauserman not me. Bauserman is complete garbage and obviously less talented than Pryor but that doesnt validate Pryor at all.

Yeah....weak argument. You're just speculating. You have no idea how they would do with someone different.

Is Pryor a great QB? No, but definitely better than "mediocre." You act like they won games in spite of him....which is not the case.
Apr 12, 2011 5:26pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

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Apr 12, 2011 5:29 PM
Automatik;739503 wrote:
I was actually quite happy with how his progression was coming at the position.


I agree. His progression from 2008 to now is remarkable, but that still doesn't mean he's a great QB.

S&L...this isn't including bowl games or MAC opponents:

2010:

Miami (fl) 12/27 233 yds
Illinois 9/16
Wisconsin 14/28 156 yds 1 INT
Iowa 18/33 2 INT

2009:

USC 11/25 1 INT
Wisconsin 5/13 1 INT 87 yds
Purdue 17/31 2 INT
Penn State 8/17 125 yds
Michigan 9/17 67 yds

2008:

Not going to discuss USC, first game thrown in as starter, I'll cut him some slack
Minnesota 8/13
Wisconsin 13/19
Michigan 5/13
Penn State 16/25
Illinois 6/10
Apr 12, 2011 5:29pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Apr 12, 2011 5:32 PM
Dude, Pryor had better stats this year than Smith did during his Heisman year, and Smith had 5 1st and 2nd rounders around him, Pryor had possibly 1.
Apr 12, 2011 5:32pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

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Apr 12, 2011 5:46 PM
LJ;739514 wrote:Dude, Pryor had better stats this year than Smith did during his Heisman year, and Smith had 5 1st and 2nd rounders around him, Pryor had possibly 1.

No.

Troy Smith 2006: Passer rating 161.9
Terrelle Pryor 2010: 157.9
2009: 128.9
2008: 146.5


Considering passer rating is a combination of all stats, I'll take Troy Smith's 2006.
Apr 12, 2011 5:46pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Apr 12, 2011 5:56 PM
lhslep134;739521 wrote:No.

Troy Smith 2006: Passer rating 161.9
Terrelle Pryor 2010: 157.9
2009: 128.9
2008: 146.5


Considering passer rating is a combination of all stats, I'll take Troy Smith's 2006.

His rating was only better because Pryor had more INT's, Pryor had more yards, completions and yp/a and the same amount of total TDs, so, yes, he had a better year.

The fact is, without splitting hairs, is that lets just concede to equal seasons from 2 different qbs, one was surrounded by 1st and 2nd rounders, a 5th year sr and Heisman winner. The other was a 3rd year junior surrounded by nfl backups and CFL players who gets bashed by "fans" constantly.
Apr 12, 2011 5:56pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

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Apr 12, 2011 6:09 PM
LJ;739527 wrote:His rating was only better because Pryor had more INT's, Pryor had more yards, completions and yp/a and the same amount of total TDs, so, yes, he had a better year.

The fact is, without splitting hairs, is that lets just concede to equal seasons from 2 different qbs, one was surrounded by 1st and 2nd rounders, a 5th year sr and Heisman winner. The other was a 3rd year junior surrounded by nfl backups and CFL players who gets bashed by "fans" constantly.

If you're looking for me to say that Pryor had a good year, then yes, he had a good year, at least relative to his previous ones.

But statistics hide the faults in Pryor that make me not necessarily want him back in the lineup. He is very inaccurate on short to intermediate routes. His deep ball is among the best in the country, and I think that makes up for his shortcomings (literally) statistically. His footwork is still light years from being NFL ready, whereas Troy Smiths footwork was very good, both inside and outside the pocket. Pryor also makes a LOT of poor decisions. He routinely throws the ball into double and triple coverage and he probably should have been intercepted 4 more times this year because of it.

S&L can make fun of me all he wants for watching a lot of film, but it's something I had to do for my "job", and in doing so Pryor's flaws immediately jump out.

Did I want him leading my team the past 3 years? Considering the other options, HELL YES. But this year we have a player I believe can be better than Pryor and is already considered by some OSU sportswriters to be a better passer than Pryor. I'm grateful for the Big Ten championships he brought us, and the MUCH needed victories in the Rose and Sugar Bowls, but from a pure quarterbacking perspective, I want Miller.
Apr 12, 2011 6:09pm
V

vball10set

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Apr 12, 2011 6:14 PM
SportsAndLady;739487 wrote: My point, is what makes a QB great, is his ability to put the team on his back and pull out a victory that no one, or very few QBs, could.
TP did this against Wisky in '08, Iowa this year, and I'll even give you the Rose Bowl....please, let me know which games that HE actually "put the team on his back and pulled out a victory" that no one could...S&L, this question's for YOU
Apr 12, 2011 6:14pm
D

dat dude

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Apr 12, 2011 6:18 PM
lhslep134;739521 wrote:No.

Troy Smith 2006: Passer rating 161.9
Terrelle Pryor 2010: 157.9
2009: 128.9
2008: 146.5


Considering passer rating is a combination of all stats, I'll take Troy Smith's 2006.

You also conveniently leave out rushing statistics, which is a crucial part of Pryor's impact on a game.
Apr 12, 2011 6:18pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

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Apr 12, 2011 6:37 PM
dat dude;739537 wrote:You also conveniently leave out rushing statistics, which is a crucial part of Pryor's impact on a game.

I didn't leave them out conveniently, I merely forgot, but his rushing prowess has nothing to do with me wanting him quarterbacking the Buckeyes or not. Sometimes I think his running ability is actually a detriment as it is an enabler to his bad decision making.
Apr 12, 2011 6:37pm
Tobias Fünke's avatar

Tobias Fünke

formerly "sjmvsfscs08"

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Apr 12, 2011 6:39 PM
Troy Smith could make the throws. Terrelle Pryor is a horribly inconsistent quarterback who has great troubles throwing outs, ins, deep outs, etc. He is an incredible athlete, but he is not anywhere near the upper echelon of quarterbacks.
Apr 12, 2011 6:39pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

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Apr 12, 2011 6:50 PM
lhslep134;739544 wrote:I didn't leave them out conveniently, I merely forgot, but his rushing prowess has nothing to do with me wanting him quarterbacking the Buckeyes or not. Sometimes I think his running ability is actually a detriment as it is an enabler to his bad decision making.

Actually, you have to remember too that he was on a bum knee the last half of 09 (had off season surgery). He has thrown when he SHOULD have run. He's actually been trying too hard to be an "NFL" QB rather than just playing the damn game imo.
Apr 12, 2011 6:50pm
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

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Apr 12, 2011 7:19 PM
lhslep134;739475 wrote:I want a new era to begin because of Pryor's play on the football field. I don't care if it's Braxton, Taylor, or Kenny, whoever proves themselves as ready during the QB competition.

Too many drives have stalled or red zone trips been halted because of Pryor's inability to throw short passes accurately and/or read a defense. It often times seems he'll make 2 or 3 really good plays in a row (which shows potential) and then flub it up. He gets by on his athletic talent alone, and truthfully I think he feels he doesn't have to work as hard because of it (take Michael Vick for example: he has said numerous times he didn't take his job seriously with the Falcons and it wasn't until he was given a second chance that he worked hard enough to improve as a quarterback...I'm not comparing Pryor to Vick I'm saying it would not be unprecedented for someone to take for granted his opportunity).

He also has a selfish and arrogant attitude (that most athletes have so I don't think it's that big of a deal), but I think it affects his leadership ability. He's also a dumbass, which affects the mental side of quarterbacking ability.

You bring up his victories in both bowl games and over Michigan, but those are team victories and I truly feel he was the benefactor of some incredibly talented teams, and the team won despite his mediocre play at quarterback. If he truly was a great quarterback, there wouldn't be a single shred of doubt of his ability to play at the next level, but instead some talent evaluators (not ones on here) mention that they think his only real shot at NFL success is to become a wideout.

I think you can somewhat agree part of pryors mistakes are due to the piss poor conservative play calling a majority of the time. Put any quarterback in a bunch of 3rd and long and they are going to make mistakes. Pryor has won MANY games for us by putting the team on his shoulders (Wisconsin fresh year, Iowa last year, Rose Bowl are the first examples off of the top of my head). I would say he lost us the Purdue game and that Penn State game. But he has won many more games for us than he has lost.
Apr 12, 2011 7:19pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Apr 12, 2011 7:20 PM
ytownfootball;739549 wrote:Actually, you have to remember too that he was on a bum knee the last half of 09 (had off season surgery). He has thrown when he SHOULD have run. He's actually been trying too hard to be an "NFL" QB rather than just playing the damn game imo.

Ya I didn't specify that, but that's part of what I meant by saying his running ability can be a detriment. It's not just running when he should pass, you're right it's passing when he should be running. Part of him not understanding the game.
Apr 12, 2011 7:20pm
Midstate01's avatar

Midstate01

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Apr 12, 2011 7:25 PM
lhslep134;739512 wrote:I agree. His progression from 2008 to now is remarkable, but that still doesn't mean he's a great QB.

S&L...this isn't including bowl games or MAC opponents:

2010:

Miami (fl) 12/27 233 yds
Illinois 9/16
Wisconsin 14/28 156 yds 1 INT
Iowa 18/33 2 INT

2009:

USC 11/25 1 INT
Wisconsin 5/13 1 INT 87 yds
Purdue 17/31 2 INT
Penn State 8/17 125 yds
Michigan 9/17 67 yds

2008:

Not going to discuss USC, first game thrown in as starter, I'll cut him some slack
Minnesota 8/13
Wisconsin 13/19
Michigan 5/13
Penn State 16/25
Illinois 6/10

Pretty sure he won that 09 game as wisky. He made great plays on the last drive. Including the game winning run.

Its human nature to only remember the negative. But Pryor has made some great plays in his career. Won some big games!!
Apr 12, 2011 7:25pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

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Apr 12, 2011 7:28 PM
Pick, the play calling isn't as conservative as you think. It's more conservative than most, but not craaaazy conservative, and here's why.

Look at the second half of the Sugar Bowl. Conservative? Yes. But if Terrelle Pryor doesn't go 0-3 on 3rd down passing then we eat up a lot more clock, score more points, and don't let Arkansas back in the game.

Terrelle Pryor has a lot of bad passes on third down that kill drives, kill momentum, and unnecessarily lengthen games. THAT is why I have such a gripe with him.
Apr 12, 2011 7:28pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Apr 12, 2011 7:34 PM
Midstate01;739568 wrote:Won some big games!!

Which is a function of the team, not him. Forgive me for not being as forgiving for a 15 yd touchdown run when the only reason we were down at that point was his 5/13 1 INT 87 yd performance.
Apr 12, 2011 7:34pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

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Apr 12, 2011 7:36 PM
vball10set;739535 wrote:TP did this against Wisky in '08, Iowa this year, and I'll even give you the Rose Bowl....please, let me know which games that HE actually "put the team on his back and pulled out a victory" that no one could...S&L, this question's for YOU

LOL you just named 3...3 very important games...that he won. I know the team also did well, generally speaking, but those were games that having a mobile and effective passing QB was absolutely necessary (think Pryor's 4th and 15 scramble last year against, I believe, iowa in the last minute).

But you did forget the Sugar Bowl this year, against Arkansas. Also, Iowa 2 seasons ago when they won in OT. And I'll say Illinois in 08, because there was no way he was going to throw the ball in that weather, so Tressel really used his running ability to take the defense off beanie well (who had a great game); Pryor ran for over 100 yards.
Apr 12, 2011 7:36pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

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Apr 12, 2011 7:39 PM
lhslep134;739572 wrote:Which is a function of the team, not him. Forgive me for not being as forgiving for a 15 yd touchdown run when the only reason we were down at that point was his 5/13 1 INT 87 yd performance.

Unbelievable...

Only at OSU can you have your school's most successful QB be going into his senior year and some fans want him to leave, because of selective retention.
Apr 12, 2011 7:39pm
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Jester

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Apr 12, 2011 7:51 PM
Sometimes I LOL at the thoughts of other OSU fans.
Apr 12, 2011 7:51pm