wkfan;741255 wrote:Wait a second......on another thread you said:



Which is it?????

Most retirement plans companies offer do a match of some kind toward retirement, and the person can select from a group of companies in which to invest and build their portfolio.

If an individual has to create their own portfolio, obviously they aren't getting company matching funds. It's all up to them.

In both cases, the individual needs the companies to turn a profit and have shares increase in value for their portfolios to do the same.

Did you really not know this?

What makes teacher retirement plans (and those of public employees) very attractive is you get (in most cases) both a monthly check based on money you and the employer have put in over the years -- and you also likely had the chance to put money into a 401 type program (no government match, at least not at the state level) and can create additional savings if you do a good job of selecting companies that show growth and whose stock value rises.

As for American productivity -- I did see a recent article that said American workers are far more productive than their foreign counterparts, and I believe this included manufacturing. But the cost difference in wages (in some cases because of union pressures pushing wages and benefits higher) made moves profitable for companies. I'll see if I can find it.

fish82;741147 wrote:I've not seen a study or other source to back this claim. If there is one, I'd be interested to read through it.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=american+workers+most+productive

fish82;741147 wrote:The "poor" in the US enjoy a much higher standard of living than the "poor" in any other country. Their standard of living is significantly higher than the previous generation, and the one before that, and the one before that. The only thing wrong with society is they're being spoon fed the class warfare bullshit how they're somehow entitled to their "fair share" of Mr. Rich Guys' money.

It's not so much the poor, but the middle class that people are worrying about. It is disappearing.

fish82;741147 wrote:It probably wouldn't. My issue is the group you single out already pays the lion's share of the tax burden, and at almost twice their share of income.

Their share as in what a flat tax rate would be? Also they seem to be doing remarkably well for themselves considering their taxes are so high.

Writerbuckeye;741324 wrote:Most retirement plans companies offer do a match of some kind toward retirement, and the person can select from a group of companies in which to invest and build their portfolio.

If an individual has to create their own portfolio, obviously they aren't getting company matching funds. It's all up to them.

In both cases, the individual needs the companies to turn a profit and have shares increase in value for their portfolios to do the same.

Did you really not know this?

Of course I know this.....however, you contradicted yourself when you said:

Most private companies don't even offer retirement plans, anymore. They leave it all up to the individual.

on one thread, and then you said:

"People complain about corporate profits and want to go after them -- when it's those very profits that keep stocks rising and 401 K and similar retirement plans for TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans healthy.

Which is it???

Writerbuckeye;741324 wrote:What makes teacher retirement plans (and those of public employees) very attractive is you get (in most cases) both a monthly check based on money you and the employer have put in over the years -- and you also likely had the chance to put money into a 401 type program (no government match, at least not at the state level) and can create additional savings if you do a good job of selecting companies that show growth and whose stock value rises.

You, as a non-teacher or non-goverment employee have this option as well. It is called saving part of your salary each week and putting it in an investment vehicle for your retirement.

How is this an extra benefit for a teacher that a non-teacher doesn't have??

Please explain.

Companies are shipping jobs overseas because the labor is significantly cheaper. This isn't a bad thing in the sense that companies need to remain profitable in order to stay in business to keep people employed.

Companies are making profits, but profits aren't a bad thing and I don't understand why people are so upset about profits. They aren't charities, their goal is to make a return for its shareholders.

It's much easier just to call you a whack job, and if you are taking George Carlin seriously, it makes it even easier.

Here's the great Hypocracy...the reason why the labor is cheaper is because there are no laws in place to protect the rights of these workers...they are being exploited for cheap labor: and here's the kicker these same companies then turn around and sell this cheaply made crap to us. I mean how funny is that.

I don't expect charity, but when these companies are going overseas and turning around and selling there goods to the people they took the jobs away from something is wrong. Thanx for calling me a whack job also.

And don't act like we care about human rights , because obviously human rights are out the window when profit is involved. This country is dying and it has nothing to do with Lazy Americans, but more to do with GREED!!

All I ask for is that these companies that WE the American people helped make great, pay us back by providing jobs here in America and quit going overseas where they can hide there disregard for Workers Rights.

Anyway my problem is not with you, because your a nobody just like me. The only difference between me and you is that...I quit drinking the Kool-aid years ago...LMAO

Hip Hop/Logicbomb;741409 wrote:Here's the great Hypocracy...the reason why the labor is cheaper is because there are no laws in place to protect the rights of these workers...they are being exploited for cheap labor: and here's the kicker these same companies then turn around and sell this cheaply made crap to us. I mean how funny is that.

I don't expect charity, but when these companies are going overseas and turning around and selling there goods to the people they took the jobs away from something is wrong. Thanx for calling me a whack job also.

And don't act like we care about human rights , because obviously human rights are out the window when profit is involved. This country is dying and it has nothing to do with Lazy Americans, but more to do with GREED!!

All I ask for is that these companies that WE the American people helped make great, pay us back by providing jobs here in America and quit going overseas where they can hide there disregard for Workers Rights.

Anyway my problem is not with you, because your a nobody just like me. The only difference between me and you is that...I quit drinking the Kool-aid years ago...LMAO

Then why don't you start a corporation? If they control everything, and you know of a way a company can remain competitive in a global economy by using American labor, then you'll be praised for all of eternity.

I'm not drinking the Kool-aid, but it sounds like you've been drinking something.

wkfan;741373 wrote:Of course I know this.....however, you contradicted yourself when you said:

Most private companies don't even offer retirement plans, anymore. They leave it all up to the individual.

on one thread, and then you said:

"People complain about corporate profits and want to go after them -- when it's those very profits that keep stocks rising and 401 K and similar retirement plans for TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans healthy.

Which is it???



You, as a non-teacher or non-goverment employee have this option as well. It is called saving part of your salary each week and putting it in an investment vehicle for your retirement.

How is this an extra benefit for a teacher that a non-teacher doesn't have??

Please explain.

I see no conflict with what I wrote. None. Most companies don't offer retirement plans like are available in government or teaching. And NOTHING of what I wrote indicates creating portfolios are something everyone can -- and probably should do. Where did I say people didn't have that available? I think you're picking nits that simply aren't there.

Writerbuckeye;741467 wrote:I see no conflict with what I wrote. None. Most companies don't offer retirement plans like are available in government or teaching. And NOTHING of what I wrote indicates creating portfolios are something everyone can -- and probably should do. Where did I say people didn't have that available? I think you're picking nits that simply aren't there.

Simple......if most private companies don't offer retirement plans....how could TENS OF MILLIONS of people be enrolled in such plans????

When you said that 'what makes teacher retirement plans so attractive.......' indicates that you think they have something available to them that the general population does not. That is simply not the case, as I pointed out.

Just continuing to point out how very misinformed you are on this subject.

Hip Hop/Logicbomb;741409 wrote:Here's the great Hypocracy...the reason why the labor is cheaper is because there are no laws in place to protect the rights of these workers...they are being exploited for cheap labor: and here's the kicker these same companies then turn around and sell this cheaply made crap to us. I mean how funny is that.

I don't expect charity, but when these companies are going overseas and turning around and selling there goods to the people they took the jobs away from something is wrong. Thanx for calling me a whack job also.

And don't act like we care about human rights , because obviously human rights are out the window when profit is involved. This country is dying and it has nothing to do with Lazy Americans, but more to do with GREED!!

All I ask for is that these companies that WE the American people helped make great, pay us back by providing jobs here in America and quit going overseas where they can hide there disregard for Workers Rights.

Anyway my problem is not with you, because your a nobody just like me. The only difference between me and you is that...I quit drinking the Kool-aid years ago...LMAO

Those companies that do move to places like Vietnam still pay workers there better wages than what they would make elsewhere in Vietnam. I read something not long ago that Nike paid workers there $1 a day, but the average wage there is $0.50 a day. I would rather pay $70 for a pair of shoes made in Vietnam than $250 for a pair of shoes made in the US. Also, no one is forcing these workers to work in these places. They aren't exploiting anyone.

wkfan;741477 wrote:Simple......if most private companies don't offer retirement plans....how could TENS OF MILLIONS of people be enrolled in such plans????

When you said that 'what makes teacher retirement plans so attractive.......' indicates that you think they have something available to them that the general population does not. That is simply not the case, as I pointed out.

Just continuing to point out how very misinformed you are on this subject.

There are tens of millions who have gotten into these plans on their own, because of prior employment when such plans were much more common (not that long ago) and through companies and governments that still offer them. Hell, there are probably quite a few million retirees who have them now, because of their availability when they were employed.

Again -- NOT ONE THING THAT I WROTE WAS A CONTRADICTION.

You pointed out something I NEVER stated wasn't the case -- you assumed that. Just because I didn't include every possible variation doesn't mean I am misinformed; it just means you're trying to find something wrong where there is nothing.

As for my point about government plans: it's much easier to get involved in savings programs when your employer has the structure all in place, than it is to do it on your own. It's also encouraged in the workplace, which helps to get more people involved than if they are out on their own and not receiving that kind of encouragement on a regular basis.

Again, you pick nits where none exist.

fish82;741147 wrote:I've not seen a study or other source to back this claim. If there is one, I'd be interested to read through it.

A quick google search of "U.S. Worker Productivity" revealed this report on a U.N. report

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20572828/ns/business-world_business/

I'm not saying it's definitive or anything but you certainly didn't look very hard I'd say.

You might also peruse;

Hall, Robert E., Charles Jones, Why Do Some Countries Produce So Much More Output Per Worker Than Others, Stanford University Working Paper No. 98-007

Available at :[URL=" http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/results.cfm?RequestTimeout=50000000/[/URL]

BoatShoes;741548 wrote:A quick google search of "U.S. Worker Productivity" revealed this report on a U.N. report

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20572828/ns/business-world_business/

I'm not saying it's definitive or anything but you certainly didn't look very hard I'd say.

You might also peruse;

Hall, Robert E., Charles Jones, Why Do Some Countries Produce So Much More Output Per Worker Than Others, Stanford University Working Paper No. 98-007

Available at :[URL=" http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/results.cfm?RequestTimeout=50000000/[/URL]

Right, so these companies just hate Americans and want to help the Chinese. LOL

BoatShoes;741548 wrote:A quick google search of "U.S. Worker Productivity" revealed this report on a U.N. report

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20572828/ns/business-world_business/

I'm not saying it's definitive or anything but you certainly didn't look very hard I'd say.

You might also peruse;

Hall, Robert E., Charles Jones, Why Do Some Countries Produce So Much More Output Per Worker Than Others, Stanford University Working Paper No. 98-007

Available at :[URL=" http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/results.cfm?RequestTimeout=50000000/[/URL]

Let's see......

UN
Stanford
MSNBC


LMAO

sleeper;741313 wrote:I disagree if we are talking about manufacturing jobs, which are the jobs going overseas.



You should be embarrassed that you don't know the difference, but I'll let Writer explain it if he chooses.



I would argue every class has broken this country, with regards to endless amounts of entitlements in which we could never pay for.

Companies are shipping jobs overseas because the labor is significantly cheaper. This isn't a bad thing in the sense that companies need to remain profitable in order to stay in business to keep people employed.

Companies are making profits, but profits aren't a bad thing and I don't understand why people are so upset about profits. They aren't charities, their goal is to make a return for its shareholders.

It's much easier just to call you a whack job, and if you are taking George Carlin seriously, it makes it even easier.

I was told the tax breaks were so that companies could hire and keep jobs here. If they're shipping the jobs out anyway why give them the tax breaks?

believer;741573 wrote:Let's see......

UN
Stanford
MSNBC


LMAO

LMAO at you LYAO at anything associated with "intellectuals".

Please Read and this article is from 2003.....And just to let ya'll know America needs the Middle class to exist, without it we WILL become a 3rd world country. The middle class drives the economy here at home, for the simple fact that we are a consumer driven economy.

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/americanprosperity.htm

sleeper;741559 wrote:Right, so these companies just hate Americans and want to help the Chinese. LOL

Just because they're more productive doesn't mean they're cost efficient. Your logic is flawed and it's still economical to move jobs overseas; I wasn't disagreeing with that notion at all.

Then why don't you start a corporation? If they control everything, and you know of a way a company can remain competitive in a global economy by using American labor, then you'll be praised for all of eternity.

I'm not drinking the Kool-aid, but it sounds like you've been drinking something

You and those who think like you are the reasons why this country will indeed end up being a 3rd world country sooner than you think. I guess America means nothing to you right? We can be competitve in a global economy...Like I've stated "GREED" is what holds us back. We allow China to manipulate their currency with no repercussions, and then allow them to sell their cheap goods ( in every sense of the word) back to us.

revgat;741537 wrote:Those companies that do move to places like Vietnam still pay workers there better wages than what they would make elsewhere in Vietnam. I read something not long ago that Nike paid workers there $1 a day, but the average wage there is $0.50 a day. I would rather pay $70 for a pair of shoes made in Vietnam than $250 for a pair of shoes made in the US. Also, no one is forcing these workers to work in these places. They aren't exploiting anyone.

I would like to buy shoes for $120 and have an unemployment rate close to what it is in Vietnam. A big part of our huge national debt is paying for the high unemployment population here in the US. You and Sleeper also need to understand...it is not just the low labor rates, but the circumvension of safety laws, o.t. rules, health laws, uc benefits, etc.

What you see in Vietnam today...is what you saw in America in the late 1880's, when the robber barons did their thing. It won't last. Trust me.

If you really want to understand the decimation and destruction caused by outsourcing, google Paul Craig Roberts...a guy who used to be an editor for the Wall Street Journal and a member of Reagan's "trickle down" originators.

I Wear Pants;741590 wrote:I was told the tax breaks were so that companies could hire and keep jobs here. If they're shipping the jobs out anyway why give them the tax breaks?

The tax breaks don't have much to do with jobs, they have to do with getting the corporations to be headquartered here so they pay taxes to the US government and not another country.

Tobias Fünke;741611 wrote:Just because they're more productive doesn't mean they're cost efficient. Your logic is flawed and it's still economical to move jobs overseas; I wasn't disagreeing with that notion at all.

Cost efficient is the word I'm looking for, thanks.

Hip Hop/Logicbomb;741627 wrote:You and those who think like you are the reasons why this country will indeed end up being a 3rd world country sooner than you think. I guess America means nothing to you right? We can be competitve in a global economy...Like I've stated "GREED" is what holds us back. We allow China to manipulate their currency with no repercussions, and then allow them to sell their cheap goods ( in every sense of the word) back to us.

Greed is good. It allows people who want to make a lot of money to constantly be innovating and create better ways to achieve something. That benefits us all in the long run.

I agree that China currency manipulation is a problem, but what would you propose we do to stop that? Neither party benefits from a trade war.

wkfan;741255 wrote:Wait a second......on another thread you said:



Which is it?????

wkfan;741373 wrote:Of course I know this.....however, you contradicted yourself when you said:

Most private companies don't even offer retirement plans, anymore. They leave it all up to the individual.

on one thread, and then you said:

"People complain about corporate profits and want to go after them -- when it's those very profits that keep stocks rising and 401 K and similar retirement plans for TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans healthy.

Which is it???

LOL, do you really not understand what WB is saying or are you trolling? He stated that corporate profits benefit people's 401k's (something they invest in themselves). The company I work for has no pension, but does contribute to my 401k. When companies [that I invest in] stock rises, I make money in my 401k and any other stock investments I have. I believe that is what WB was implying.

So although companies leave it up to the individual employee to plan for their own retirement; he is accurate when stating that corporate profits benefit anyone that invests in them. There is no contradiction. You are not understanding what he is saying.

But as I pointed out there are several ways where large corporations pay zero taxes.

I Wear Pants;741664 wrote:But as I pointed out there are several ways where large corporations pay zero taxes.

If a company doesn't earn net income, it doesn't pay taxes. That would be the equivalent of you not working and therefore not earning any income, and therefore you wouldn't have to pay taxes either.

What would be the equivalent of me making billions in profit but paying no taxes?

sleeper;741721 wrote:If a company doesn't earn net income, it doesn't pay taxes. That would be the equivalent of you not working and therefore not earning any income, and therefore you wouldn't have to pay taxes either.

There are any number of ways to avoid having any taxable income after deductions and credits applied to gross income available in the internal revenue code. Google for instance had a net profit of $8.5 Billion for FY 2010 but was able to dramatically reduce their tax liability but using a double irish arrangement of foreign subsidiaries to credit foreign taxes against their U.S. taxes...a strategy used by many large corporations. Hopefully I can find some time this weekend to respond more thoroughly to some of this thread.