wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
May 28, 2011 5:34pm
jordo212000;784105 wrote:My thoughts exactly. Most drafts are a crapshoot and while Williams is a great talent, there is no guarantee he'll be good. Take whoever falls to 4 and then hope you get lucky at number 8. With 3 top 10 picks, odds suggest that at least one of those guys will be good. If all 3 are good, then the Cavs might be back in contention sooner rather than later
Agreed. I am not as big on Williams as others.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 28, 2011 5:36pm
jordo212000;784114 wrote:I was disappointed with Hickson's progression this year, but I think he is probably still a key piece, and then I was very impressed with Ramon Sessions. Shouldn't be a starter for them (especially if they draft Irving) and would be ideal as a Jamal Crawford type off the bench
Hickson doesn't impress me. I think they could use Sessions as trade bait and use Baron Davis to help mentor Irving.
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
May 28, 2011 5:36pm
KR1245;784111 wrote:I'm kinda on the fence with this one. I'm not a huge fan of using the entire TPE to move up 2 spots in the draft, especially if either Kanter or Williams is still there at 4. Seems like alot to give up for a "tweener"
I think there is a chance that Williams will be gone by pick 4, but at the same time I have heard a lot of whispers that the Timberwolves like Kanter, which makes sense considering that Williams would probably not mesh well with Michael Beasley. After that you have the Jazz who are PF heavy and no longer have a PG. They'll take Brandon Knight. and... voila the Cavs can take Williams at #4
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
May 28, 2011 5:39pm
BR1986FB;784119 wrote:Hickson doesn't impress me. I think they could use Sessions as trade bait and use Baron Davis to help mentor Irving.
ehh I don't know man. Baron Davis is a head case and can be somewhat toxic. No way I want him mentoring Irving. I know he was a model citizen when he came to Cleveland, but his work ethic and attitude have been issues at each of his various stops.
Try and deal him.
Sessions could be trade bait, but I'm not sure why you would. You wouldn't get a whole lot in return and I think he would be great off the bench for them.
KR1245
Posts: 4,317
May 28, 2011 5:39pm
Is this trade going to improve our chances to draft Johnny Diebs?
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
May 28, 2011 5:40pm
KR1245;784124 wrote:Is this trade going to improve our chances to draft Johnny Diebs?
yeah, take diebs at number 8...lmao
KR1245
Posts: 4,317
May 28, 2011 5:41pm
wes_mantooth;784125 wrote:yeah, take diebs at number 8...lmao
You think Diebs is still gonna be there at 8? You obviously dont know shit about basketball
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
May 28, 2011 5:41pm
KR1245;784124 wrote:Is this trade going to improve our chances to draft Johnny Diebs?
Lol. No need to worry about drafting Johnny Diebs. He'll be available well after the draft ends. He was a marginal college basketball starter who won't be able to stop anybody defensively in the NBA. Especially if he plays the 2. Can you picture him trying to cover D-Wade? hahaha Love the guy though. He could definitely shoot. Maybe somebody will pick him up as an honoree roster member for the NBA 3 point contest
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dave
Posts: 4,558
May 28, 2011 5:42pm
There's a lot more that goes into it than that. They are building for the future, they have several guys on the roster with some potential that are making league minimum. If you keep 4 and 8 pick I'd assume those guys will make a decent amount more than the 2 pick over the next few years. With a hard cap likely there is a lot to think about. If one of those 4/8 picks is a bust it will hurt. If they think Williams is a lock to be a starter they will make the trade.jordo212000;784109 wrote:Not to sound like a jerk, but so what? Just keep improving your roster whenever you can. Besides there should be a large difference in talent between the guy they get with the 8th pick and the 12th guy on their roster currently.
They werent a good team last year either. So I'm not sure why they would want to protect roster spots for many of the players on the team anyways?
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
May 28, 2011 5:42pm
KR1245;784127 wrote:You think Diebs is still gonna be there at 8? You obviously dont know shit about basketball
Great college basketball player or greatest college basketball player?
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
May 28, 2011 5:45pm
dave;784129 wrote:There's a lot more that goes into it than that. They are building for the future, they have several guys on the roster with some potential that are making league minimum. If you keep 4 and 8 pick I'd assume those guys will make a decent amount more than the 2 pick over the next few years. With a hard cap likely there is a lot to think about. If one of those 4/8 picks is a bust it will hurt. If they think Williams is a lock to be a starter they will make the trade.
Cavs fans could care less about the Cavs wanting to set themselves up for the salary cap changes. It would be a crime for management to decide against making a trade because the 8th pick in the draft would be more expensive than a couple of the bozos on their bench currently.
Besides, that might be applicable if we were talking about the NFL, but in the NBA most rookies make peanuts compared to veterans. Look at Blake Griffin's salary, it really surprises you at how little some of these guys make. They clean up in their 2nd contract
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
May 28, 2011 5:45pm
KR1245;784127 wrote:You think Diebs is still gonna be there at 8? You obviously dont know shit about basketball
true, may have to trade hickson and the 8 to move up a couple spots....maybe we could take Irving, Williams, and Diebler with the 1,2,3
KR1245
Posts: 4,317
May 28, 2011 5:47pm
I like what I hear about Kanter and I really think the Jazz end up taking Knight. Thats why I'm not 100% behind this trade just yet, I think we will be able to get either Kanter or Williams. If the Cavs are hearing whispers that the Jazz dont like Knight, I'm all for it.
KR1245
Posts: 4,317
May 28, 2011 5:48pm
jordo212000;784130 wrote:Great college basketball player or greatest college basketball player?
Greatest college basketball player from Upper Sandusky to play at Ohio State
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
May 28, 2011 5:50pm
KR1245;784133 wrote:I like what I hear about Kanter and I really think the Jazz end up taking Knight. Thats why I'm not 100% behind this trade just yet, I think we will be able to get either Kanter or Williams. If the Cavs are hearing whispers that the Jazz dont like Knight, I'm all for it.
The Jazz almost have no choice. They really need a PG.
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
May 28, 2011 5:51pm
KR1245;784134 wrote:Greatest college basketball player from Upper Sandusky, whose last name was Diebler, to play at Ohio State
Fixed it for you.
D
dave
Posts: 4,558
May 28, 2011 5:58pm
jordo212000;784131 wrote:Cavs fans could care less about the Cavs wanting to set themselves up for the salary cap changes. It would be a crime for management to decide against making a trade because the 8th pick in the draft would be more expensive than a couple of the bozos on their bench currently.
Besides, that might be applicable if we were talking about the NFL, but in the NBA most rookies make peanuts compared to veterans. Look at Blake Griffin's salary, it really surprises you at how little some of these guys make. They clean up in their 2nd contract
Players will not be cleaning up in their 2nd contract anymore, that's the point. That's why if they don't see anyone other than Williams as being a sure thing they do it. They don't want to be stuck paying 1 or 2 busts 5-10mil a year in 3 years.
You are nuts if you don't think fans don't want to see them set up well for the new cap. Nobody is expecting a title in the next couple years, just smart moves until Jamison and Davis are off the books.
S
sportswizuhrd
Posts: 3,215
May 28, 2011 6:03pm
KR1245;784111 wrote:I'm kinda on the fence with this one. I'm not a huge fan of using the entire TPE to move up 2 spots in the draft, especially if either Kanter or Williams is still there at 4. Seems like alot to give up for a "tweener"
This. Also, why trade the exception inside the division. I know the deal isn't about this season but might as well send it somewhere else.
jordo212000
Posts: 10,664
May 28, 2011 6:06pm
dave;784142 wrote:Players will not be cleaning up in their 2nd contract anymore, that's the point. That's why if they don't see anyone other than Williams as being a sure thing they do it. They don't want to be stuck paying 1 or 2 busts 5-10mil a year in 3 years.
You are nuts if you don't think fans don't want to see them set up well for the new cap. Nobody is expecting a title in the next couple years, just smart moves until Jamison and Davis are off the books.
So who is going to be getting the money? I can guarantee you that the NBA players assoc. isn't going to allow them to give all the money to rookies. Which is who would be added to roster through the draft.
They are going to be paying somebody 5-10 mill a year, it might as well be a young player who they have evaluated and they think has a future. Even "bad" drafts bear good players. Take advantage of other GMs being dopes and ignoring the draft. This is how you build teams if you are in a small market.
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
May 28, 2011 7:23pm
The two best players in the draft have pretty much been decided with Irving and Williams. There is no way in hell that Williams is still available at #4, no way.
So if Cleveland feels that Williams is worth the price, this "supposed" trade is a no brainer imo. We swallow Rip's contract and pick up the two players in the 2011 draft. We trade Rip to a contender in need of offense off the bench and pick up another pick.
Detroit gets financial relief and Minny picks up two picks in the top ten.
I'd rather use the TPE on getting the #2 player in the draft rather than younger "vets" via trade.
But once again I wouldn't put it past Cleveland to go back to the Detroit deal and keep the #1, #4, and #8 picks in the draft.
So if Cleveland feels that Williams is worth the price, this "supposed" trade is a no brainer imo. We swallow Rip's contract and pick up the two players in the 2011 draft. We trade Rip to a contender in need of offense off the bench and pick up another pick.
Detroit gets financial relief and Minny picks up two picks in the top ten.
I'd rather use the TPE on getting the #2 player in the draft rather than younger "vets" via trade.
But once again I wouldn't put it past Cleveland to go back to the Detroit deal and keep the #1, #4, and #8 picks in the draft.
hoops23
Posts: 15,696
May 28, 2011 7:28pm
I think the trade is a good one honestly.
You'll potentially get the two top players in this draft, you can then trade RIP and Ramon for more pieces/picks.
You'll potentially get the two top players in this draft, you can then trade RIP and Ramon for more pieces/picks.
D
devil1197
Posts: 6,220
May 28, 2011 7:32pm
hoops23;784212 wrote:I think the trade is a good one honestly.
You'll potentially get the two top players in this draft, you can then trade RIP and Ramon for more pieces/picks.
True.
Out of all the potential trade I've heard this offseason, this one makes the most since.
I thought Cleveland would go back to the Piston trade that Rip veto'ed earlier this season.
All I know is that Gilbert/Grant won't be settling with the #1 and #4 selection, they will try their best to make the team better THIS season. If that means going after Irving and Williams, then let's do it.
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dave
Posts: 4,558
May 28, 2011 7:33pm
Rip will be bought out, they won't get anything in return for him. In simple terms Gilbert is paying $25mil to move up 2 spots in the draft. Pretty cool to have an owner like that.
D
devil1197
Posts: 6,220
May 28, 2011 7:35pm
dave;784218 wrote:Rip will be bought out, they won't get anything in return for him. In simple terms Gilbert is paying $25mil to move up 2 spots in the draft. Pretty cool to have an owner like that.
That is true, I forgot about the buyout process.
Gilbert has said he has an open check book.
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
May 28, 2011 7:38pm
dave;784218 wrote:Rip will be bought out, they won't get anything in return for him. In simple terms Gilbert is paying $25mil to move up 2 spots in the draft. Pretty cool to have an owner like that.
Along those lines, he also picked up Baron's $15 mil contract or whatever it is. That would be close to spending $40 million on picks 1 and 2. I love it