I bought a pack of Reese's candy at the store tonight and flipped it around to look at a lack of nutrition fact where I saw our American candy is being made in Mexico and by an independent contractor! How ridiculous is this giveaway free trade becoming? No wonder our manufacturing sector is about ready to become a part of history.

Sorry, I was just totally shock and struck by this. What are we going to make?

First of all, America does not have some right to make everything on Earth. Why do you care if the candy is made here, Mexico, or Bumblefuck, Bangladesh? Trade is predicated on a mutual exchange of value. Do you get what you pay for? Yes. Does it taste good? Yes. OK, there you go. Does it taste better to you if you know some high school dropout in Oklahoma was stirring the peanut butter that went into it?

Anyways, manufacturing base in the US has declined, yet our standard of living as increased. Why is this? Because the US is about IDEAS and INFORMATION, both of which are valued higher than manual labor. We should be glad that other countries are taking the dull work from us (at a lower cost, at that).

bman618 wrote: I bought a pack of Reese's candy at the store tonight and flipped it around to look at a lack of nutrition fact where I saw our American candy is being made in Mexico and by an independent contractor! How ridiculous is this giveaway free trade becoming? No wonder our manufacturing sector is about ready to become a part of history.

Sorry, I was just totally shock and struck by this. What are we going to make?

How you like NAFTA. I wonder did you get a discount on that candy bar? LMAO.

So the company puts Americans out of work sets up shop in Mexico and has little labor cost they are allowed to exploit those the Mexicans. Then they ship the product back here for a much lesser cost.

Americans lose but the almighty corporation makes more profit laughing all the way to the bank.

The middle class is disappearing here in America you can partally thank NAFTA for that. The corporations love it.

alwaysafan wrote: First of all, America does not have some right to make everything on Earth. Why do you care if the candy is made here, Mexico, or Bumblefuck, Bangladesh? Trade is predicated on a mutual exchange of value. Do you get what you pay for? Yes. Does it taste good? Yes. OK, there you go. Does it taste better to you if you know some high school dropout in Oklahoma was stirring the peanut butter that went into it?

Anyways, manufacturing base in the US has declined, yet our standard of living as increased. Why is this? Because the US is about IDEAS and INFORMATION, both of which are valued higher than manual labor. We should be glad that other countries are taking the dull work from us (at a lower cost, at that).

Why do I care where it is made? Because people need jobs thats why.

NAFTA has robbed many middle class Americans of their jobs so the corporation can make a higher profit and still sell back here.

It has nothing to do with taking jobs Americans do not want. That is an outright lie and deception from corporations.

BCSbunk wrote:

alwaysafan wrote: First of all, America does not have some right to make everything on Earth. Why do you care if the candy is made here, Mexico, or Bumblefuck, Bangladesh? Trade is predicated on a mutual exchange of value. Do you get what you pay for? Yes. Does it taste good? Yes. OK, there you go. Does it taste better to you if you know some high school dropout in Oklahoma was stirring the peanut butter that went into it?

Anyways, manufacturing base in the US has declined, yet our standard of living as increased. Why is this? Because the US is about IDEAS and INFORMATION, both of which are valued higher than manual labor. We should be glad that other countries are taking the dull work from us (at a lower cost, at that).

Why do I care where it is made? Because people need jobs thats why.

NAFTA has robbed many middle class Americans of their jobs so the corporation can make a higher profit and still sell back here.

It has nothing to do with taking jobs Americans do not want. That is an outright lie and deception from corporations.

So you if you need a job, then better yourself to get one. You do not have the right to a job.

Think of it this way. Let's say Bob Jones is an entrepreneur, he starts his own candy business. Labor costs in the US start to rise, and he wants to outsource to Mexico. This is BOB's business--not yours. He can decide to do what he wants with his business--that is HIS RIGHT. You violate his rights by trying to lay claim on some God-given right to a job at Bob's Candy Shop.

alwaysafan wrote:

BCSbunk wrote:

alwaysafan wrote: First of all, America does not have some right to make everything on Earth. Why do you care if the candy is made here, Mexico, or Bumblefuck, Bangladesh? Trade is predicated on a mutual exchange of value. Do you get what you pay for? Yes. Does it taste good? Yes. OK, there you go. Does it taste better to you if you know some high school dropout in Oklahoma was stirring the peanut butter that went into it?

Anyways, manufacturing base in the US has declined, yet our standard of living as increased. Why is this? Because the US is about IDEAS and INFORMATION, both of which are valued higher than manual labor. We should be glad that other countries are taking the dull work from us (at a lower cost, at that).

Why do I care where it is made? Because people need jobs thats why.

NAFTA has robbed many middle class Americans of their jobs so the corporation can make a higher profit and still sell back here.

It has nothing to do with taking jobs Americans do not want. That is an outright lie and deception from corporations.

So you if you need a job, then better yourself to get one. You do not have the right to a job.

Think of it this way. Let's say Bob Jones is an entrepreneur, he starts his own candy business. Labor costs in the US start to rise, and he wants to outsource to Mexico. This is BOB's business--not yours. He can decide to do what he wants with his business--that is HIS RIGHT. You violate his rights by trying to lay claim on some God-given right to a job at Bob's Candy Shop.

And here ladies and Gentleman is one of the reasons that the middle class is evaporating here in the USA.

Bob uses American freedoms to start up his business then abandons the workers who helped him get set up and moves to Mexico to exploit the people there whilst harming the people here.

It is time for NAFTA to go. The large sucking sound has happened.

No more protectionism for that bastard Bob either. It is my RIGHT not to have to bail his sorry ass out when the other country has a change in leadership.

NAFTA is a sorry ass state of affairs that is ruining this country.

alwaysafan wrote:

BCSbunk wrote:

alwaysafan wrote: First of all, America does not have some right to make everything on Earth. Why do you care if the candy is made here, Mexico, or Bumblefuck, Bangladesh? Trade is predicated on a mutual exchange of value. Do you get what you pay for? Yes. Does it taste good? Yes. OK, there you go. Does it taste better to you if you know some high school dropout in Oklahoma was stirring the peanut butter that went into it?

Anyways, manufacturing base in the US has declined, yet our standard of living as increased. Why is this? Because the US is about IDEAS and INFORMATION, both of which are valued higher than manual labor. We should be glad that other countries are taking the dull work from us (at a lower cost, at that).

Why do I care where it is made? Because people need jobs thats why.

NAFTA has robbed many middle class Americans of their jobs so the corporation can make a higher profit and still sell back here.

It has nothing to do with taking jobs Americans do not want. That is an outright lie and deception from corporations.

So you if you need a job, then better yourself to get one. You do not have the right to a job.

Think of it this way. Let's say Bob Jones is an entrepreneur, he starts his own candy business. Labor costs in the US start to rise, and he wants to outsource to Mexico. This is BOB's business--not yours. He can decide to do what he wants with his business--that is HIS RIGHT. You violate his rights by trying to lay claim on some God-given right to a job at Bob's Candy Shop.

AAF...your position on globalization is quite surprising to me..given your admission on the other huddle your constant concerns regarding keeping your own job.

Why should Mexico, China, India and the like be permitted to crap on human rights of people in order for their government/corporations to reap huge profits on an uneven playing field? This is not what Adam Smith preached. Not even close to what he preached...and he is the recognozed founder of capitalism...but more specifically...fair capitalism.

The US business model has built in a "social net" overhead expense that includes paying for unemployment compensation, workman's compensation, meeting safety standards in the work place, and protecting the environment from water and air pollution proven to keep our citizens healthier, and longer living.

But you are somehow OK with American conglomerates circumventing these overhead charges by shipping the factories to other nations, that provide none of these inalienable human rights.

If one were to take out all the government jobs that don't actually produce anything, the actual unemploymnt rate in this country would equal that of the early 1930's. 25% unemployment...soup lines...Americans starving to death.

Globalization has hurt our very soul and way of life. And is the number one reason that our standard of living has decreased over the past 30 years.

Our economy is propped up by toothpicks...toothpicks that translate into 14 trillion dollars of personal debt. All the while, our national debt now approaches 12 trillion or 85% of our GDP.

The stats don't lie...mathematics do not lie either. The days of American economic power, and pursuit of the American dream are over...unless American corporations grow some American patriotism, and quit subsidinzing the likes of China and India, whose "totalitarian capitalism" model is ruining the expansion of our private industry.

From "The War for Wealth" written by German economist Gabor Steingart..

Questions from Steingart's book....page 227.

"Did you really believe that you could live, in the long term, on borrowed money?

"Who actually claimed that such a large nation doesn't need an industrial base?

"Where are the men and women who made us believe that a negative balance of trade is a sign of strength?

"Why did no one on Wall Street sound the alarm bell when the U.S. dollar became eroded and lost intrinsic value for such a prolonged period of time?

"Is it possible that no one could have noticed a country that was once the world's biggest lender selling off its assets to others?

"How could the entrenchment of economic inequality in a democratic nation have been tolerated for so long?
"What happed to the upward mobility that was once this country's trademark?

"And, last but not least: why did democracy, which is supposed to react more quickly to malfunctions than other forms of government, fail so miserably?"

This book should be mandatory reading for all high school students that live in the Western Hemisphere. It also should be read by any American that actually loves his/her country.

alwaysafan wrote:

BCSbunk wrote:

alwaysafan wrote: First of all, America does not have some right to make everything on Earth. Why do you care if the candy is made here, Mexico, or Bumblefuck, Bangladesh? Trade is predicated on a mutual exchange of value. Do you get what you pay for? Yes. Does it taste good? Yes. OK, there you go. Does it taste better to you if you know some high school dropout in Oklahoma was stirring the peanut butter that went into it?

Anyways, manufacturing base in the US has declined, yet our standard of living as increased. Why is this? Because the US is about IDEAS and INFORMATION, both of which are valued higher than manual labor. We should be glad that other countries are taking the dull work from us (at a lower cost, at that).

Why do I care where it is made? Because people need jobs thats why.

NAFTA has robbed many middle class Americans of their jobs so the corporation can make a higher profit and still sell back here.

It has nothing to do with taking jobs Americans do not want. That is an outright lie and deception from corporations.

So you if you need a job, then better yourself to get one. You do not have the right to a job.

Think of it this way. Let's say Bob Jones is an entrepreneur, he starts his own candy business. Labor costs in the US start to rise, and he wants to outsource to Mexico. This is BOB's business--not yours. He can decide to do what he wants with his business--that is HIS RIGHT. You violate his rights by trying to lay claim on some God-given right to a job at Bob's Candy Shop.

And just so you know, isn't it ironic that the mass influx of Mexican illegal aliens into our country corresponded with the passage of NAFTA? NAFTA wa not only a clusterfuck for the American worker, it was a clusterfuck for the Mexican worker...primarily the Mexican farmer that has 2 million of them thrown off their ownb land.

As cheap as American labor is in Mexico, it is much cheaper in China and India.

As a result, even 3rd world shitholes like Mexico are having their own jobs outsourced to the far East.

Maybe Bob's candy store will end up in Beijing...where he can pay the grunts 50 cents an hour, eh?

All this pissing and moaning because a corporation wants to cut costs and provide a quality product at a cheaper price while improving the bottom line.

OH.
THE.
HORROR.

You folks do realize that a MAJORITY of Americans also have stocks in some form or manner that depends on that corporation making a profit so THEY can increase their wealth, right?

Don't blame the companies for finding cheaper ways to make their products when you've got a huge labor force in this country that refuses to get its collective heads out of their stuck-in-the-1950s model of working in a union shop for wages that are too high for the work they're producing.

You want THE prime example of how it could be better here? Take a look at the foreign car companies that are producing better vehicles on American soil than we can produce, at a lower cost -- and those employees still have great jobs and benefits.

Amazing.

Footwedge wrote:

alwaysafan wrote:

BCSbunk wrote:

alwaysafan wrote: First of all, America does not have some right to make everything on Earth. Why do you care if the candy is made here, Mexico, or Bumblefuck, Bangladesh? Trade is predicated on a mutual exchange of value. Do you get what you pay for? Yes. Does it taste good? Yes. OK, there you go. Does it taste better to you if you know some high school dropout in Oklahoma was stirring the peanut butter that went into it?

Anyways, manufacturing base in the US has declined, yet our standard of living as increased. Why is this? Because the US is about IDEAS and INFORMATION, both of which are valued higher than manual labor. We should be glad that other countries are taking the dull work from us (at a lower cost, at that).

Why do I care where it is made? Because people need jobs thats why.

NAFTA has robbed many middle class Americans of their jobs so the corporation can make a higher profit and still sell back here.

It has nothing to do with taking jobs Americans do not want. That is an outright lie and deception from corporations.

So you if you need a job, then better yourself to get one. You do not have the right to a job.

Think of it this way. Let's say Bob Jones is an entrepreneur, he starts his own candy business. Labor costs in the US start to rise, and he wants to outsource to Mexico. This is BOB's business--not yours. He can decide to do what he wants with his business--that is HIS RIGHT. You violate his rights by trying to lay claim on some God-given right to a job at Bob's Candy Shop.

And just so you know, isn't it ironic that the mass influx of Mexican illegal aliens into our country corresponded with the passage of NAFTA? NAFTA wa not only a clusterfuck for the American worker, it was a clusterfuck for the Mexican worker...primarily the Mexican farmer that has 2 million of them thrown off their ownb land.

As cheap as American labor is in Mexico, it is much cheaper in China and India.

As a result, even 3rd world shitholes like Mexico are having their own jobs outsourced to the far East.

Maybe Bob's candy store will end up in Beijing...where he can pay the grunts 50 cents an hour, eh?

There was nothing ironic about it--NAFTA opened up trade, so there is going to be a two-way exchange; businesses in US looking for cheaper labor, labor in Mexico looking for higher wages.

I agree that NAFTA is not the ideal document, but I support the cause of cutting down trade barriers. Labor is going to go where it is going to go. It is hubris if a person claims that it should be anywhere else than where it is.

When the pirates come after the Reese's ship then, don't call our Navy to bail the ship out because our vast military budget is responsible for part of the taxation the right likes to blame for running American business out.

While there were a few ridiculous salaries, those are quickly drying up. Wages overall have sagged for 30 years and and the sagging is really increasing when real inflation is factored there.

These American companies propser due to American capitalism and our work force but are quick to stab it in the back to make something five cents cheaper. Many of them are willing to throw in with disgusting totalitarian regimes like communist China and are aiding those countries by strengthening them and weaking us. It's disgusting our companies want to use Chinese indentured labor. But many on the right who defend giveaway free trade will be among the first to bash an Iran or North Korea because they are crappy regimes, but won't touch communist China.

alwaysafan wrote:

Footwedge wrote:

alwaysafan wrote:

BCSbunk wrote:

alwaysafan wrote: First of all, America does not have some right to make everything on Earth. Why do you care if the candy is made here, Mexico, or Bumblefuck, Bangladesh? Trade is predicated on a mutual exchange of value. Do you get what you pay for? Yes. Does it taste good? Yes. OK, there you go. Does it taste better to you if you know some high school dropout in Oklahoma was stirring the peanut butter that went into it?

Anyways, manufacturing base in the US has declined, yet our standard of living as increased. Why is this? Because the US is about IDEAS and INFORMATION, both of which are valued higher than manual labor. We should be glad that other countries are taking the dull work from us (at a lower cost, at that).

Why do I care where it is made? Because people need jobs thats why.

NAFTA has robbed many middle class Americans of their jobs so the corporation can make a higher profit and still sell back here.

It has nothing to do with taking jobs Americans do not want. That is an outright lie and deception from corporations.

So you if you need a job, then better yourself to get one. You do not have the right to a job.

Think of it this way. Let's say Bob Jones is an entrepreneur, he starts his own candy business. Labor costs in the US start to rise, and he wants to outsource to Mexico. This is BOB's business--not yours. He can decide to do what he wants with his business--that is HIS RIGHT. You violate his rights by trying to lay claim on some God-given right to a job at Bob's Candy Shop.

And just so you know, isn't it ironic that the mass influx of Mexican illegal aliens into our country corresponded with the passage of NAFTA? NAFTA wa not only a clusterfuck for the American worker, it was a clusterfuck for the Mexican worker...primarily the Mexican farmer that has 2 million of them thrown off their ownb land.

As cheap as American labor is in Mexico, it is much cheaper in China and India.

As a result, even 3rd world shitholes like Mexico are having their own jobs outsourced to the far East.

Maybe Bob's candy store will end up in Beijing...where he can pay the grunts 50 cents an hour, eh?

There was nothing ironic about it--NAFTA opened up trade, so there is going to be a two-way exchange; businesses in US looking for cheaper labor, labor in Mexico looking for higher wages.

Sorry...but Mexico did not gain better wages. You need to reread my post. After NAFTA, MORE Mexicans became disenchanted with the work environment, including 2 million farmers losing their jobs. Thus the avalanche of illegals entering our country...post NAFTA law passing.

I agree that NAFTA is not the ideal document, but I support the cause of cutting down trade barriers.

NAFTA did not (nor CAFTA for that matter] cut down any trade barriers. Mexico and America had been trading goods for decades prior to the signing of NAFTA. You should review and research the original trade agreements between the 2 states.

Labor is going to go where it is going to go. It is hubris if a person claims that it should be anywhere else than where it is.

No.......... labor will not go where it's going to go. Corporatists will go wherever they can find areas of the world that through government control, make laborers work below the "natural value" of their services.

As long as 3rd world countries want to treat labor as nothing more than a commodity, provide no human rites, limits on hours worked, and no WC, UC benefits, and others, they will exploit them to gain an artificial advantage in the (sic) free market system.

And your use of the term hubris is a misnomer to say the least.. The real hubris regarding globalization involves the traitorous American oligopolies trashing their own homeland economy and shitting on the private sector work force, all the while laughing all the way to the bank.

If this were the car debate, people would say that "As long as the profits are coming back to America, that's all the matters."

In the debate with Honda being "American made," people will say that the "profits go back to Japan." What I think is funny, is people argue out of both sides of their mouth.

Sorry...but Mexico did not gain better wages. You need to reread my post. After NAFTA, MORE Mexicans became disenchanted with the work environment, including 2 million farmers losing their jobs. Thus the avalanche of illegals entering our country...post NAFTA law passing.

And you need to re-read mine. Never said Mexico had higher wages. I said that Mexicans have come to the US looking for higher wages. This is due to direct and in-direct causes relating to NAFTA.

NAFTA did not (nor CAFTA for that matter] cut down any trade barriers. Mexico and America had been trading goods for decades prior to the signing of NAFTA. You should review and research the original trade agreements between the 2 states.

No.......... labor will not go where it's going to go. Corporatists will go wherever they can find areas of the world that through government control, make laborers work below the "natural value" of their services.

As long as 3rd world countries want to treat labor as nothing more than a commodity, provide no human rites, limits on hours worked, and no WC, UC benefits, and others, they will exploit them to gain an artificial advantage in the (sic) free market system.

And your use of the term hubris is a misnomer to say the least.. The real hubris regarding globalization involves the traitorous American oligopolies trashing their own homeland economy and shitting on the private sector work force, all the while laughing all the way to the bank.

Artificial advantage? Give me a break. The only thing that is artificial is trying to levy trade barriers, tax incentives, and other goodies to try and get companies to do something they otherwise would not (i.e. stay in the US).

Get over yourself -- corporations do not owe you, me, or anyone a damned thing. Not a job, not a paycheck, not even a good product.

alwaysafan wrote:Artificial advantage? Give me a break. The only thing that is artificial is trying to levy trade barriers, tax incentives, and other goodies to try and get companies to do something they otherwise would not (i.e. stay in the US).

Get over yourself -- corporations do not owe you, me, or anyone a damned thing. Not a job, not a paycheck, not even a good product.

Quite true but the left believes it to be so. Let's use Wal-Mart as a classic example.

When Wal-Mart moves into a new location all the local lefties cry foul and whine about how the Big Box Store will destroy the local economy. And then when Wal-Mart starts the hiring process the lefties expect the Big Box Store to hire ALL the local "displaced" labor. And then when Wal-Mart provides the locals with those jobs, the lefties expect the Big Box Store to pay the employees $20 per hour plus benefits or risk the thuggish threat of being unionized. And then the local lefties expect the Big Box Store to shelve only American made products but to sell them to the locals at Chinese made prices.

A lesson in socialistic semi-fee market capitalism.

^^^spot on.

ccrunner609 wrote:As for those so called American car companies........we bail them out with our tax dollars and in reality we are bailing out the mexican workforce.

True but keeping the Mexican workforce employed is slightly better than providing free education and health care to illegal immigrants.

Just sayin'.

believer wrote:

alwaysafan wrote:Artificial advantage? Give me a break. The only thing that is artificial is trying to levy trade barriers, tax incentives, and other goodies to try and get companies to do something they otherwise would not (i.e. stay in the US).

Get over yourself -- corporations do not owe you, me, or anyone a damned thing. Not a job, not a paycheck, not even a good product.

Quite true but the left believes it to be so. Let's use Wal-Mart as a classic example.

When Wal-Mart moves into a new location all the local lefties cry foul and whine about how the Big Box Store will destroy the local economy. And then when Wal-Mart starts the hiring process the lefties expect the Big Box Store to hire ALL the local "displaced" labor. And then when Wal-Mart provides the locals with those jobs, the lefties expect the Big Box Store to pay the employees $20 per hour plus benefits or risk the thuggish threat of being unionized. And then the local lefties expect the Big Box Store to shelve only American made products but to sell them to the locals at Chinese made prices.

A lesson in socialistic semi-fee market capitalism.

And to go off of this. No one is saying all companies are perfect. I happen to think WalMart is a depressing place to shop, however THAT IS WHY I DONT GO THERE. That is my right. Their right is to provide a business. Obviously a lot of people do like wal mart. Why would I try to shut it down just because I don't like the company that much?

ccrunner609 wrote:Why? We can have both if Washington wanst full of a bunch of pussies pandering for votes from the immigrants

True. I forgot that ACORN is making it possible for illegals to vote.

alwaysafan wrote:

believer wrote:

alwaysafan wrote:Artificial advantage? Give me a break. The only thing that is artificial is trying to levy trade barriers, tax incentives, and other goodies to try and get companies to do something they otherwise would not (i.e. stay in the US).

Get over yourself -- corporations do not owe you, me, or anyone a damned thing. Not a job, not a paycheck, not even a good product.

Quite true but the left believes it to be so. Let's use Wal-Mart as a classic example.

When Wal-Mart moves into a new location all the local lefties cry foul and whine about how the Big Box Store will destroy the local economy. And then when Wal-Mart starts the hiring process the lefties expect the Big Box Store to hire ALL the local "displaced" labor. And then when Wal-Mart provides the locals with those jobs, the lefties expect the Big Box Store to pay the employees $20 per hour plus benefits or risk the thuggish threat of being unionized. And then the local lefties expect the Big Box Store to shelve only American made products but to sell them to the locals at Chinese made prices.

A lesson in socialistic semi-fee market capitalism.

And to go off of this. No one is saying all companies are perfect. I happen to think WalMart is a depressing place to shop, however THAT IS WHY I DONT GO THERE. That is my right. Their right is to provide a business. Obviously a lot of people do like wal mart. Why would I try to shut it down just because I don't like the company that much?

Easy answer: you aren't a liberal.

Writerbuckeye wrote:Easy answer: you aren't a liberal.

My thoughts exactly.

Well, I for one hate WaMart! haha! Ever since I found out (years ago) that they don't stock jeans in tall sizes.

^^^LOL But that's true free market capitalism at its finest!

believer wrote: ^^^LOL But that's true free market capitalism at its finest!

Correct.

I ought to start a "I hate Walmart" thread.
My parents love it though. So I usually have to actually walk in it from time to time. ughhh!

believer wrote:

alwaysafan wrote:Artificial advantage? Give me a break. The only thing that is artificial is trying to levy trade barriers, tax incentives, and other goodies to try and get companies to do something they otherwise would not (i.e. stay in the US).

Get over yourself -- corporations do not owe you, me, or anyone a damned thing. Not a job, not a paycheck, not even a good product.

Quite true but the left believes it to be so. Let's use Wal-Mart as a classic example.

When Wal-Mart moves into a new location all the local lefties cry foul and whine about how the Big Box Store will destroy the local economy. And then when Wal-Mart starts the hiring process the lefties expect the Big Box Store to hire ALL the local "displaced" labor. And then when Wal-Mart provides the locals with those jobs, the lefties expect the Big Box Store to pay the employees $20 per hour plus benefits or risk the thuggish threat of being unionized. And then the local lefties expect the Big Box Store to shelve only American made products but to sell them to the locals at Chinese made prices.

A lesson in socialistic semi-fee market capitalism.

I hear a lot more of the call to use/sell American made products from the right.