O-Trap;674452 wrote:I've only seen it a handful of times, but what have they gotten wrong?

I don't remember what they got wrong, but I know what they got right...

ytownfootball;674455 wrote:I don't ascribe to the theories, I'm just glad there are people who ask the questions. I don't trust the government any more than I trust the guy on the corner running a Three-card-Monte game. I think we all need to be suspicious and pay attention.

Don't completely disagree, but this isn't a government issue. There were people on that flight...not the government. There were families of people on that flight, not the government. There were eyewitnesses to the plane running an odd flight pattern (for those that haven't been to DC, Reagan is just a few miles away so a low flying aircraft isn't that atypical). There were flight controllers that track flights, I suppose they are quasi-government employees, but they know when a flight isn't supposed to be in their airspace (it is hilarious to me that the conspiracy people ignore this - does anyone think that a flight along the east coast wouldn't be completely tracked?). There were people cleaning up, not the government.

Nothing wrong with asking questions, but some questions are easily answered. This is one of them.

but this isn't a government issue

uhhh...it hit the Pentagon, it's all about the government.

[video=youtube;KaUqaVj51w4][/video]

ytownfootball;674467 wrote:uhhh...it hit the Pentagon, it's all about the government.

So it wouldn't be an issue if it hit Georgetown U.? Was the flight that crashed in PA a government issue?

I'm trying to be patient, but it is unfathomable to me the logical leaps (or I should say the illogical leaps) that people make to turn this into something that all evidence shows it isn't. Again, if 9/11 was an inside job - we have the most intelligent, effective and completely airtight government in the history of mankind to pull off a hoax like this. We all know that isn't the case - so why all of a sudden are they competent to do this type of thing?

Manhattan Buckeye;674479 wrote:So it wouldn't be an issue if it hit Georgetown U.? Was the flight that crashed in PA a government issue?

I'm trying to be patient, but it is unfathomable to me the logical leaps (or I should say the illogical leaps) that people make to turn this into something that all evidence shows it isn't. Again, if 9/11 was an inside job - we have the most intelligent, effective and completely airtight government in the history of mankind to pull off a hoax like this. We all know that isn't the case - so why all of a sudden are they competent to do this type of thing?

No need to be patient or impatient...why is it difficult to to realize the Bill Clinton defense...deny, deny, deny?

I am only advocating open mindedness, and there are some questions that remain unanswered in my mind.

if anyone has netflix..i just started watching "The Conspiracy to Rule the World". Only 10 minutes in..but pretty interesting so far.

Manhattan Buckeye;674353 wrote:A conspiracy of what? What was the point? Do you think the shuttle launches were also conspiracies?

Many believe it was a conspiracy and that the US was not ready [technologically] to land on the moon, but that the US faked landing on the moon so that the country would believe that we were superior than the Soviets since they were preparing to land on the moon.

Again, I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying it really isn't THAT far fetched to believe; especially considering all the "evidence" that "argues" we actually didn't.

I was just about to post the same thing.

Elvis is still alive.

Scarlet_Buckeye;674654 wrote:Many believe it was a conspiracy and that the US was not ready [technologically] to land on the moon, but that the US faked landing on the moon so that the country would believe that we were superior than the Soviets since they were preparing to land on the moon.

Again, I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying it really isn't THAT far fetched to believe; especially considering all the "evidence" that "argues" we actually didn't.

While it is true that we were in a race to beat the Soviets to the moon, besides simple "bragging rights" what possible gain would we have enjoyed that would have justified the expenditure of billions of taxpayer dollars on such an elaborate ruse?

So all of the private companies, their execs, engineers, and employees and all of the thousands of Federal employees working for NASA were able to keep their mouths shut on the Big Lie all these years?

The launching of all the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo spacecraft from Cape Canaveral was just expensive fluff to screw with the Kremlin?

CBS, NBC, and ABC were willing to spend millions in television coverage with the help of Hollywood special effects just so the Feds could flip Ivan the bird?

When Apollo 13 had to abort its mission that was done simply to make the moon flights appear fallible and believable?

I watched every Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo flight with fascination as a kid. I remember being proud to be American the day Armstrong and Aldrin landed on the moon. I may have been a politically unaware and naive child at the time but there's no doubt in my mind we put men on the moon.

Raw Dawgin' it;674402 wrote:I think if you believe myth busters is a credible source for debunking facts (they're constantly wrong for one) then you're also dumb enough to believe these conspiracy theories.

Show proof or be quiet while the grown ups talk...

Manhattan Buckeye;674379 wrote:Might as well watch "Loose Change" in class...It is interesting as well, and full of bull-hockey.

\

Loose Change is fucking terrible!

Manhattan Buckeye;674479 wrote:So it wouldn't be an issue if it hit Georgetown U.? Was the flight that crashed in PA a government issue?

I'm trying to be patient, but it is unfathomable to me the logical leaps (or I should say the illogical leaps) that people make to turn this into something that all evidence shows it isn't. Again, if 9/11 was an inside job - we have the most intelligent, effective and completely airtight government in the history of mankind to pull off a hoax like this. We all know that isn't the case - so why all of a sudden are they competent to do this type of thing?

I constantly ask this question when anyone I know makes these ridiculous claims. They have no rebutal. Their only rebuttal is, "open your mind" and "really think about it". Just give me a straight fucking answer as to why you think the government is all of a sudden competent enough to execute this ruse.

ytownfootball;674486 wrote:No need to be patient or impatient...why is it difficult to to realize the Bill Clinton defense...deny, deny, deny?

I am only advocating open mindedness, and there are some questions that remain unanswered in my mind.

No problem with open-mindedness as long as it is accompanied with rational thought. Bill Clinton's "deny deny deny" defense was easy because it involved very few people. If 9/11 or a moon conspiracy were exactly that, conspiracies, there would be hundreds, if not, thousands of people involved. It is impossible that that many people kept quiet all these years. As MB stated, our government can not run any program or operation effectively or efficiently; how in the hell do they pull this off with perfection? Answer is, they don't!

I don't trust the government at all, but I don't believe these are conspiracies. JMO

ytownfootball;674439 wrote:They ran pilots through flight simulations that had them attempt to fly into the Pentagon, not one of them was successful in doing so, they all crashed prior to reaching their destination. Their explanation was a missile I believe. The reasoning behind it had to do with burying information (funding of black ops? missions- I really don't remember) was housed in the Pentagon offices located at the crash site. They had a lot of evidence to support their theory.

Not to mention that the Pentagon is a secure facility that has more than one camera angle that is being ponied up as evidence.

It might have been Decoded w/Brad Metzler?

All interesting if you ignore the fact that there were eyewitnesses.

You watched that in school? I'd be curious what the point of the lesson was. Hopefully, it was about how to debunk conspiracy theories.

ytownfootball;674393 wrote:I've seen just about all of the conspiracy stuff, some compelling, others not so much. Loose Change doesn't ring a bell though.

The only thing I've not seen sufficiently debunked for my taste was the jet hitting the Pentagon. Just one shot of the thing going into it (obviously a lot more shots available than one)...and it made a hole that was pretty inconsistent with a jet hitting a building, and a black box that, well, just didn't hold up.

Has been debunked too. A jet liners wings are the weakest part in a head on collision. They would immediately break off and a jet would make a round hole especially in a building as reinforced as the Pentagon.

I saw Michael Jackson the other day.

To say it was faked is beyond ridiculous to me. They brought back rocks that have scientific properties not found on Earth, didn't they? Neil Armstrong's brother was my Principal at Easthaven Elementary in Columbus at the time Neil walked on the moon.
Here is a link I find fascinating. I think I posted it here before, last year was the 50th anniversary of Joe Kittinger being the first man in space - then he jumped! The first man to go supersonic without an airplane. This is part one of 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWVEGLJBjbU&feature=channel

believer;674838 wrote:what possible gain would we have enjoyed that would have justified the expenditure of billions of taxpayer dollars on such an elaborate ruse?

Uhm... the commonly held belief that you need to rule the sky in warfare?

believer;674838 wrote:So all of the private companies, their execs, engineers, and employees and all of the thousands of Federal employees working for NASA were able to keep their mouths shut on the Big Lie all these years?

Uhm... what part of the word "conspiracy" don't you understand?

believer;674838 wrote:I remember being proud to be American the day Armstrong

You're making the argument for me.

dwccrew;674895 wrote:
I constantly ask this question when anyone I know makes these ridiculous claims. They have no rebutal. Their only rebuttal is, "open your mind" and "really think about it". Just give me a straight fucking answer as to why you think the government is all of a sudden competent enough to execute this ruse.

About as ridiculous as those who maintain "we landed on the moon" and their main argue point is "if you don't believe that... then... well... you're just ridiculous.



Again, I'm not taking sides here... I'm just trying to prove the fallacies of people who tend to argue about this topic.

Manhattan Buckeye;674353 wrote:A conspiracy of what? What was the point? Do you think the shuttle launches were also conspiracies?

I want to start by saying that I believe we did walk on the moon and I think that the conspiracy theories about it are dumb, but do you honestly not understand why they would fake it? We were in the middle of a space race with the Soviet Union. They were the first to put a satellite into space, so we had to beat them to the moon to establish supremacy. We also had a president say we would land on the moon by the end of the decade and it was the end of the decade. If it was faked there were dozens of reasons why.

Occam's razor tells us the more likely scenario.

Scarlet_Buckeye;675277 wrote:Uhm... what part of the word "conspiracy" don't you understand?

I'm not sure I understand the significance of it being a conspiracy in relation to thousands of people not leaking the info.

queencitybuckeye;675288 wrote:Occam's razor tells us the more likely scenario.

Bingo.

believer;674838 wrote:While it is true that we were in a race to beat the Soviets to the moon, besides simple "bragging rights" what possible gain would we have enjoyed that would have justified the expenditure of billions of taxpayer dollars on such an elaborate ruse?

So all of the private companies, their execs, engineers, and employees and all of the thousands of Federal employees working for NASA were able to keep their mouths shut on the Big Lie all these years?

The launching of all the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo spacecraft from Cape Canaveral was just expensive fluff to screw with the Kremlin?

CBS, NBC, and ABC were willing to spend millions in television coverage with the help of Hollywood special effects just so the Feds could flip Ivan the bird?

When Apollo 13 had to abort its mission that was done simply to make the moon flights appear fallible and believable?

I watched every Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo flight with fascination as a kid. I remember being proud to be American the day Armstrong and Aldrin landed on the moon. I may have been a politically unaware and naive child at the time but there's no doubt in my mind we put men on the moon.

There were plenty of reasons for the US to lie. Also only a handful of people at Nasa and the astronauts would be the only ones who would have known they were keeping a secret, not hundreds of thousands of people. This also brings up questions of crazy deaths to potential whisteblowers. One guy died in a freak accident where the space capsule exploded during his training. There were other ones as well, thats the only one i can think of right now.

I think we walked on the moon.

On the other hand, if you wanna talk conspiracy theories, I swear I saw Tupac hangin' out on the block the other day sellin nickelbags....