I Wear Pants;659180 wrote:Neither the Bush or Obama administrations have ever really touched on the civilian casualty counts or the refugees created by these wars. Probably because we wouldn't like what we'd be hearing.

I Wear Pants;659194 wrote:Yeah, but even the low end numbers are disgusting.

believer;658769 wrote:First, back-up the "million deaths" figure. One death is too much so that's not my point. But a million deaths? Really? You can do better than that.

Second, realpolitik says that turning our backs on long-time ally yet acknowledged dictator Mubarack because it's now politically correct to empathize with the protesters will show weakness in American foreign policy. Can we be counted on to back-up our allies even if they flounder? By doing so are we doomed to create another Iran situation?

This is not a black & white pick & choose issue. Frankly we're in a damned if we do, damned if we don't scenario. That's hardly a "good thing."

O-Trap;658894 wrote:Problem is, most governments that rise to power are seen as extremists by some.

O-Trap;659201 wrote:Yep, but if you keep it out of the public eye, you avoid scrutiny over it.

When the news is saying, "omg lindsey lohan is in rehab again! lolol" instead, that's what people talk about and formulate opinions on.

Red herring to a 'T'.

dwccrew;660201 wrote:IMO if we do not support the people of Egypt, it makes us hypocrits. We want the people of this region to have democracy, this is democracy. The people want change in leadership and they want it now. If we support an unpopular leader that the majority want to get rid of, it makes us look like we only want democracy in the form of a government that we have major influence on. That may not be how it is with Mubarak, but that is how it will be perceived.

On the other hand, if we support the people of Egypt, it will not make us look weak. It'll make us look genuinely supportive of the democractic process.

FatHobbit;660368 wrote:I agree. Do we support democracy or only governments that benefit us?

dwccrew;660201 wrote:Bingo!

O-Trap;660438 wrote:I'm willing to bet the Brits would have seen us as "extremist" rebels when we broke the colonies off.

dwccrew;660451 wrote:Terrorists even.....GASP!

O-Trap;660489 wrote:Given the guerrilla style of combat we were using ... compared to their old-order form.

believer;660497 wrote:Yeah but that's coming from a country that also gave us the Beatles.

CenterBHSFan;660411 wrote:Don't they co-mingle?

FatHobbit;660508 wrote:I think there can be democratic governments that aren't friendly towards the US. So my question is which do we support more, democracy or friendly governments?

FatHobbit;660508 wrote:I think there can be democratic governments that aren't friendly towards the US. So my question is which do we support more, democracy or friendly governments?

O-Trap;660514 wrote:Just make sure you carry a big, f---ing stick, so that even if they aren't "friendly," they play nicely in the sandbox.

FatHobbit;660525 wrote:I agree that its more important that they have a democratic government, but I'm not so sure that's the US position. (It might be the official position.) I wonder if the US would be supportive if they voted in an islamic government? I think a lot of times our official position is in support of democracy and people's rights, but we really care about is how does it affect our interests.

FatHobbit;660525 wrote:... I think a lot of times our official position is in support of democracy and people's rights, but we really care about is how does it affect our interests.

As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam.

Con_Alma;660531 wrote:It should be both. I would be concerned if it wasn't.

majorspark;660630 wrote:We need to be concerned because the Egyptian military has a lot of our modern weapons, including about 1,000 A1M1 Abrams tanks. These toys and many others have been used to keep Mubarak in line, in power, and protect the Suez Canal and keep it open to international shipping.

majorspark;660630 wrote:... These toys and many others have been used to keep Mubarak in line, in power, and protect the Suez Canal and keep it open to international shipping.