believer;631839 wrote:The notion that Palin political strategy maps that utilize targets/bulls eyes to illustrate and pinpoint the opposition and thereby encourages loner nutcases to make assassination attempts is absolutely absurd.

This fixation by the left on Palin is so over-the-top it's actually almost as scary as knowing there are deranged lunatics like Loughner in our midst.

Since I did also speak against the similar Dem map as something I consider to be a bad idea, I know I'm not being pointed at, so I agree with your second sentence/paragraph, as long as you're going both ways.

#wherewasobamaborn?

Irrational fixations are silly.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/99161/20110110/jared-lee-loughner-who-is-gabrielle-giffords-congresswoman-arizona-shooting-charges-court-motive.htm

Who is Jared Lee Loughner?

"Schoolmates of the alleged shooter describe Loughner as a loner, an ultra-liberal with a penchant for hard rock music, flag burning, and pot smoking," reports Examiner.

Those who think he was lunatic should perhaps pause as evidence of some solid planning in the run-up to the murder has emerged.

According to The New York Times, investigators from the FBI found an envelope in Loughner's house bearing handwritten words: "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and "Giffords."

VIEWS

Articles on the Internet variously describe him as a 'semi-literate' who was thrown out a local college, and whose writings display 'weird syllogisms' and 'unexplained numbers and references'.

Conversely, there are suggestions that he could be a well-read person who leaned over to the fringe theories concerning patriotism and government, especially to some pseudo-intellectual lines of thinking.

MANIACAL LEFTIST OF RIGHT WING FANATIC?

Was he a leftist? His personal heroes include Venezuela's communist leader and arch enemy of the U.S. Hugo Chavez as well as iconic revolutionary Che Guevara. But it's much more complex than it looks - his list also includes President Barack Obama!

Conversely, he could, in fact, be far from being a patriot as it's emerged that one of his videos shows a man burning a U.S. national flag. And then it should be clubbed with his inclusion of The Communist Manifesto among his favorite books.

All this could well be interpreted as his being a left winger! But Mark Potok, writing in Southern Povery Law Center (SPLC), discounts this theory. "The main enemy of the Patriot movement is certainly the federal government. And so-called Patriots have certainly engaged in acts like burning the flag."

However, Potok says inferences can be made about his intellectual leanings from his reading list that includes books that run a theme of "individual versus the totalitarian state". Some of his favorites were Ayn Rand’s 'We the Living' and 'Atlas Shrugged' and George Orwell’s '1984' and 'Animal Farm' as well as Hitler's 'Mein Kampf.'

"... I think Loughner’s reading list, although it included children’s books and a few classics, had an underlying theme — the individual versus the totalitarian state. Certainly, that’s the explicit central theme of Ayn Rand’s We the Living and Orwell’s 1984 and Animal Farm, among others."

There is also speculation over his possible allegiance to the American Renaissance ideology that espouses white supremacist ideals.

SPLC describes American Renaissance thus: "Founded by Jared Taylor in 1990, the New Century Foundation is a self-styled think tank that promotes pseudo-scientific studies and research that purport to show the inferiority of blacks to whites — although in hifalutin language that avoids open racial slurs and attempts to portray itself as serious scholarship."

Prescott;631797 wrote:Is there proof that this nutjob looked at or knew about these target maps?It doesn't really natter.

I think it is silly to try to rationalize irrational behavior by pointing to these maps or the heated rhetoric that exists today. IMO, people who choose to act irrationally will find something or anything to justify their actions, no matter how heinous those actions are.

I'm reminded of my youth when the band, Judas Priest, was hauled into court to defend their lyrics....when played backwards. I forget all of the details, but there was a great hub-ub surrounding the entire ordeal. Everybody's music was being played backwards and I recall the Beatles' White Album made a few people take notice. My point is, as you say, people will act out as demented as they are prone regardless. The press, with a blood-lust hatred of Palin, will do anything to tie her to any evil atrocity they can find then expect her to defend herself and maybe she'll make mistakes along the way. Why blame the criminal when blaming Palin gets a better reaction?

BGFalcons82;631893 wrote: Why blame the criminal when blaming Palin gets a better reaction?

Blaming Palin for this autrocity is like blaming the victim of a rape for being raped.

Put the blame squarely on who should be held accountable...the nutjob who pulled the trigger.

wkfan;631906 wrote:Blaming Palin for this autrocity is like blaming the victim of a rape for being raped.

Put the blame squarely on who should be held accountable...the nutjob who pulled the trigger.

Jesus, I wouldn't go that far.

It is more like blaming a publishing company that may print a book that some make take to mean radical ideas.
It is not her fault at all.

It is so tragic that people died, including a child because AZ allows its citizens to walk around with guns strapped to their leg.

And no Ms. Palin isn't directly responsible but her rhetoric about "Re-load!" and putting cross-hairs on opponents is in about as poor taste as anything I've ever heard or seen out of someone who pretends to want to represent normal people in government. Sick, Sick, Sick.

Smithwick;631946 wrote:It is so tragic that people died, including a child because AZ allows its citizens to walk around with guns strapped to their leg.

And no Ms. Palin isn't directly responsible but her rhetoric about "Re-load!" and putting cross-hairs on opponents is in about as poor taste as anything I've ever heard or seen out of someone who pretends to want to represent normal people in government. Sick, Sick, Sick.

Yes, not in good taste. However, we have no evidence that her chart directly influenced this crazy kid. Until then, we cannot and should not make a direct link.

ptown_trojans_1;631951 wrote:Yes, not in good taste. However, we have no evidence that her chart directly influenced this crazy kid. Until then, we cannot and should not make a direct link.

Never said it did. But her lack of common sense in allowing this kind of tasteless material on a web-site that supposedly represents her is extraordinary. This incident represents just how divided our country has become. Maybe a child's death will be the wake-up call Arizona needs to lead the reformation.

Smithwick;631960 wrote:Never said it did. But her lack of common sense in allowing this kind of tasteless material on a web-site that supposedly represents her is extraordinary. This incident represents just how divided our country has become. Maybe a child's death will be the wake-up call Arizona needs to lead the reformation.

Does it?
Sure he killed a fed judge, a kid, and targeted the Congresswoman, but did the divided politics of the country really push him over the edge or did something else?
Let's not jump to the political angle yet. I know most people are, but until this guy actually says why he did it, it is all speculation.

Smithwick;631960 wrote:Never said it did. But her lack of common sense in allowing this kind of tasteless material on a web-site that supposedly represents her is extraordinary. This incident represents just how divided our country has become. Maybe a child's death will be the wake-up call Arizona needs to lead the reformation.

What is the "reformation" you speak of?

This has nothing to do with divided politics. This kid was a extreme leftist anti government nut job. It has nothing to do with democrat or republican anything.

It is so tragic that people died, including a child because AZ allows its citizens to walk around with guns strapped to their leg.

If the guy wanted a gun and that gun was illegal to buy , he would have found a way to get a weapon.

FWIW, one of the two men who tackled this guy and held hin on the ground was carrying a handgun. He said he would not have had the fortitude to restrain the shooter if he had not been carrying a weapon.

And no Ms. Palin isn't directly responsible but her rhetoric about "Re-load!" and putting cross-hairs on opponents is in about as poor taste as anything I've ever heard or seen out of someone who pretends to want to represent normal people in government. Sick, Sick, Sick.

Bunk, bunk, bunk. It is a strategy map, nothing more nothing less.

Smithwick;631946 wrote:It is so tragic that people died, including a child because AZ allows its citizens to walk around with guns strapped to their leg.

And no Ms. Palin isn't directly responsible but her rhetoric about "Re-load!" and putting cross-hairs on opponents is in about as poor taste as anything I've ever heard or seen out of someone who pretends to want to represent normal people in government. Sick, Sick, Sick.

So do you also feel President Obama is "sick, sick, sick," since he (paraphrasing here) extolled his followers during the health care debate: If they bring a knife to the fight, we'll bring a gun?

You can't have it both ways.

Fact is: the left is going out of its way to try and pin this on Palin and the Tea Party. They see it as an opportunity to undermine the movement's credibility. Instead, they are showing their collective asses, and spitting on the graves of a federal judge, a nine year old girl, three elderly people and several others killed in this tragedy.

Here is an excellent piece from the Wall St. Journal on how the liberal media is trying to use this tragedy and what he calls "blood libel".

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071913818696964.html?mod=WSJ_article_MoreIn_Opinion

The Liberals are using it to spotlight an atrocity, the Ultra Right is using it to defend one of their own. Who is more correct in the eyes of Jesus? How ironic is it that in this case it is the Liberals? The Tea Party will destroy this country if it catches on with even more elderly and scared white heterosexuals.

The Liberals are using it to spotlight an atrocity,

Wrong. The liberals are using the blood of the victims to further their political agenda.Sick, sick, sick,,,

the Ultra Right is using it to defend one of their own

Why wouldn't they defend someone who is unjustly accused.

The only person responsible for this tragedy is the shooter and he is in custody.

Smithwick;632014 wrote:The Liberals are using it to spotlight an atrocity, the Ultra Right is using it to defend one of their own. Who is more correct in the eyes of Jesus? How ironic is it that in this case it is the Liberals? The Tea Party will destroy this country if it catches on with even more elderly and scared white heterosexuals.

Do us a favor and take your meds before posting. Your paranoia seems to be taking over.

Smithwick;632014 wrote:The Liberals are using it to spotlight an atrocity, the Ultra Right is using it to defend one of their own. Who is more correct in the eyes of Jesus? How ironic is it that in this case it is the Liberals? The Tea Party will destroy this country if it catches on with even more elderly and scared white heterosexuals.

Quality post. We're fortunate to have you join the discussion.

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

Obama to Latinos: "Punish" Your "Enemies" in the Voting Booth

… In a radio interview that aired on Univision on Monday, Mr. Obama sought to assure Hispanics that he would push an immigration overhaul after the midterm elections, despite fierce Republican opposition.

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

Matthews: 'Someone's Going To Jam a CO2 Pellet Into Rush's Head And He's Going To Explode'

Analogizing Rush Limbaugh to a James Bond villain, Chris Matthews today fantasized: "at some point somebody's going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he's going to explode like a giant blip."

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

Libtalker Calls For Deaths Of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly

While the right is under fire for supposedly inciting violence against congressional Democrats, libtalkers have pumped up the rhetoric tenfold. Here, Mike Malloy calls for the deaths of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck.

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

Krugman: Hang Lieberman in Effigy, But Don't You Dare "Target" Democratic Seats

The Democratic National Committee emails reporters a lot of stories everyday in an attempt to spin a narrative. The narrative of the week, of course, is the supposedly hateful and violent rhetoric espoused by Obamacare opponents. Paul Krugman's column today, like most days, can be stitched together...

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

WaPo Civility: 'Knock Every Racist and Homophobic Tooth Out of Their Cro-Magnon Heads'

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

Foot In Mouth Syndrome

NY State Comptroller Alan Hevesi apologizes for a remark made at the Queens College commencement ceremony. 
NY State Comptroller's remark: Charles Schumer would "put a bullet between the president's eyes if he could get away with it."

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

The Radio Equalizer: Brian Maloney: Mike Malloy Calls For Violence Against Matt Drudge

Hey Brian, hasn't it been awhile since CNN had nutcase Malloy on their network? They're probably trying to forget he ever sullied their airwaves with his presence.

MALLOY: Drudge? Aw, Drudge, somebody ought to wrap a strong Republican entrail around his neck and hoist him up about six feet in the air and watch him bounce.


Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

Ed Schultz: Hateful?

On his March 29 radio program, Ed Schultz insisted he hasn't said anything "hateful" within the last year on his MSNBC program.

SCHULTZ: You're damn right Dick Cheney's heart's a political football. We ought to rip it out and kick it around and stuff it back in him.

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

Time for Obama to go 'gangsta' on GOP

Civil rights activist Fannie Lou Hamer made famous the phrase, "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired." For me, I'm sick and tired of Democrats having power and being unwilling to use it. I've...

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

Delahunt Glad Addington is Al-Qaida Target

At a House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution hearing, Rep. Delahunt (D-MA) expressed gladness that David Addington is now a publicly televised target of Al-Aqaeda



Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

John Kerry's Only Joke is a Botched Apology

Democratic Senator John Kerry's joke causes himself to be distanced by his own party. White House dreams all but evaporated, just like his humor.

KERRY: I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.

Did this qualify as "inflammatory rhetoric"?

CBS Apologizes for Talk Show's Violent Bush Joke

CBS and the producers of "The Late Late Show With Craig Kilborn" apologized Wednesday for putting the words "Snipers Wanted" under footage of George W. Bush's acceptance speech at the Republican…

Writerbuckeye;632004 wrote:Here is an excellent piece from the Wall St. Journal on how the liberal media is trying to use this tragedy and what he calls "blood libel".

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071913818696964.html?mod=WSJ_article_MoreIn_Opinion

Good read.

Ahhh, the machines of both sides are in full swing.
Both are trying to discredit, disprove, delink each other or blame the other for influencing this kid.

All are missing the point of trying to address how to eliminate or reduce the lone wolf. How do we as a society, ensure that some members do not feel like outcasts? How do we move to instead of reporting after the fact on how strange he was, move to address outliers before they act?

Those are the things I believe we need to really focus on.

cbus4life;630035 wrote:I knew the blogs were going to be going nuts as soon as i recognized the name.

Shame that our country has gotten to the point where, as soon as we see a tragedy like this, we start looking for motives as to why the person was killed, but so that we can stop future killings, but so that we can start scoring political points against one another.

Disgusting. Lefty blogs are going nuts, and then, if you read the Fox News comment section for the article, you'll see people arguing back and forth over who did it, i swear some are praying that it was a young tea partier, an illegal immigrant, or a muslim, just because it will make them "right." Ugh.

Great point. I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread, but on the first page there were already several posters blaming "political rhetoric" for the shooting. Instead of taking a step back and waiting until all the facts are in, people are looking to score political points 5 minutes after a tragedy.

http://www.slate.com/id/2280616/?GT1=38001

ptown_trojans_1;632079 wrote:Ahhh, the machines of both sides are in full swing.
Both are trying to discredit, disprove, delink each other or blame the other for influencing this kid.

All are missing the point of trying to address how to eliminate or reduce the lone wolf. How do we as a society, ensure that some members do not feel like outcasts? How do we move to instead of reporting after the fact on how strange he was, move to address outliers before they act?




Those are the things I believe we need to really focus on.

Your never going to eliminate the "lone wolf". There are Evil people through out the World and no program or social outreach would change their views or actions. I have my own beliefs on how to change the World but people in general do not want to pay the asking price.

jhay78;632127 wrote:Great point. I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread, but on the first page there were already several posters blaming "political rhetoric" for the shooting. Instead of taking a step back and waiting until all the facts are in, people are looking to score political points 5 minutes after a tragedy.

This thread (and this board) has done an admirable job in keeping it civil. I typically post on one other political board (alumni site) and they pretty much had to shut down over the weekend. It definitely leans more left than this board - but not ultra-left by any means. Within hours after the tragedy some of the even more moderate people were practically giddy with excitement in their rush to judgment - it was like Duke lacrosse 2.0.

When it turned out this guy was 22 years old - myself and a few other people pointed out that it likely wasn't political, just a disturbed young man. Our arguments were called "pathetic" and "biased" even though they didn't have any arguments, just baseless assumptions.