BR1986FB;1021547 wrote:If somehow all of the viable QB's are gone (other teams leapfrog them via trade), HELL YES you trade down...BUT, you don't do stupid shit and trade down into the 20's.

What if those teams are throwing the house to switch with the Browns? The Browns wouldn't fall down that far in the draft in this case.

like_that;1021560 wrote:What if those teams are throwing the house to switch with the Browns? The Browns wouldn't fall down that far in the draft in this case.

I'd have no issue as long as they're not dropping into the 20's. I love me some smashmouth football but I'm fucking sick and tired of hearing "with the their first pick in the draft the Browns select <insert offensive lineman>." They need playmakers. They can get a "big ugly" RT in the 3rd round.

BR1986FB;1021565 wrote:I'd have no issue as long as they're not dropping into the 20's. I love me some smashmouth football but I'm fucking sick and tired of hearing "with the their first pick in the draft the Browns select <insert offensive lineman>." They need playmakers. They can get a "big ugly" RT in the 3rd round.

Pretty much, the time for waiting 'till the third round to select your"diamond in the rough" project are long gone. This team needs weapons and I think triggers get pulled this time around.

BR1986FB;1021565 wrote:I'd have no issue as long as they're not dropping into the 20's. I love me some smashmouth football but I'm fucking sick and tired of hearing "with the their first pick in the draft the Browns select <insert offensive lineman>." They need playmakers. They can get a "big ugly" RT in the 3rd round.

In my wishful scenario, the Browns still would be able to get a playmaker, and they would get antoher first rounder for next draft. Can build a team pretty quickly if you keep getting first round picks.

ytownfootball;1021566 wrote:Pretty much, the time for waiting 'till the third round to select your"diamond in the rough" project are long gone. This team needs weapons and I think triggers get pulled this time around.

Heckert has acknowledged they need weapons.

My biggest concern is that Holmgren's ego (he made the call) won't allow him to "cut bait' with McCoy, they'll get the necessary weapons and McCoy will prove to be the "average" QB that many think he is. Another year wasted (ala keeping "Dead Man Walking' Mangini around too long) and back to "square one' in 2013 when there won't be shit for QB's in the draft.

like_that;1021568 wrote:In my wishful scenario, the Browns still would be able to get a playmaker, and they would get antoher first rounder for next draft. Can build a team pretty quickly if you keep getting first round picks.

I'm just not willing to dive that low to get average/serviceable players. This team needs "Von Miller's", "Patrick Peterson's" and "AJ Green's" (although there's no way I use that 4-5th pick on Blackmon when they need a veteran FA WR).

BR1986FB;1021570 wrote:I'm just not willing to dive that low to get average/serviceable players. This team needs "Von Miller's", "Patrick Peterson's" and "AJ Green's" (although there's no way I use that 4-5th pick on Blackmon when they need a veteran FA WR).

I'd say i would be fine with dropping to 10th at most, but if the price is right (would have to be an insane offer), I am ok with taking another dive.

BR1986FB;1021569 wrote:Heckert has acknowledged they need weapons.

My biggest concern is that Holmgren's ego (he made the call) won't allow him to "cut bait' with McCoy, they'll get the necessary weapons and McCoy will prove to be the "average" QB that many think he is. Another year wasted (ala keeping "Dead Man Walking' Mangini around too long) and back to "square one' in 2013 when there won't be **** for QB's in the draft.

Love the hypotheticals, but let's say Holmgren wins out and McCoy is our guy at the start of next season.

If it's obvious this team can win, just not with McCoy, do you think Holmgren swallows his pride, and they move Wallace into the starting line-up? Or, maybe trade? If, after the first 4-5 games next year McCoy ain't gettin' it done, but we're at say, 2-3 or 1-4....then what?

I understand that Wallace put up "McCoy-like" numbers on Sunday, but in his first start since last year, and with Shurmur's putrid play-calling, but I think he's an upgrade over McCoy - and I'd like to see McCoy succeed. Again, like it's been said 1000 times on this thread alone - if the Browns wanted to win this season, McCoy wouldn't have been the starting QB - at least not to start the season.

Top 10 would be fine if they snag another 1st rounder in 2013.

BR1986FB;1021569 wrote:Heckert has acknowledged they need weapons.

My biggest concern is that Holmgren's ego (he made the call) won't allow him to "cut bait' with McCoy, they'll get the necessary weapons and McCoy will prove to be the "average" QB that many think he is. Another year wasted (ala keeping "Dead Man Walking' Mangini around too long) and back to "square one' in 2013 when there won't be shit for QB's in the draft.

Heckert has been the only front office personnel to acknowledge shortcomings and actually answer to the media/fans. Holmgren and Shurmer pussyfoot around the questions and don't answer anything. I don't want to mortgage the farm but I think we need to make some moves, and we might not have a war chest and availability like we do now.

OhioStatePride2003;1021576 wrote:Love the hypotheticals, but let's say Holmgren wins out and McCoy is our guy at the start of next season.

If it's obvious this team can win, just not with McCoy, do you think Holmgren swallows his pride, and they move Wallace into the starting line-up? Or, maybe trade? If, after the first 4-5 games next year McCoy ain't gettin' it done, but we're at say, 2-3 or 1-4....then what?

I understand that Wallace put up "McCoy-like" numbers on Sunday, but in his first start since last year, and with Shurmur's putrid play-calling, but I think he's an upgrade over McCoy - and I'd like to see McCoy succeed. Again, like it's been said 1000 times on this thread alone - if the Browns wanted to win this season, McCoy wouldn't have been the starting QB - at least not to start the season.

I could see McCoy packaged as a draft day trade if they decide to move UP in the draft.

IF blackmon is there, with no trade offers and no barkley/luck, you take him. Plain and simple

ytownfootball;1021578 wrote:Heckert has been the only front office personnel to acknowledge shortcomings and actually answer to the media/fans. Holmgren and Shurmer pussyfoot around the questions and don't answer anything. I don't want to mortgage the farm but I think we need to make some moves, and we might not have a war chest and availability like we do now.

That's why if this franchise is going to be "saved", Heckert will be the guy to do it. It won't be Holmgren (unless he comes down to coach) or Shurmur.

If they win, I think it will be in spite of Shurmur instead of because of his coaching "talents." Team is friggin 4-10 and the dude doesn't have the sack to go for it on 4th & inches? Isn't "QB Sneak" in your freakin playbook, Patty? Plays too much "Tressel Ball."

Two games left and we're playing the hypothetical draft game. I'm not sold on Blackmon, seems to lack the athleticism and isn't big enough (Larry Fitz) to over come it. Not sure he's a stud in the Pros, hoping the combine/film breakdown in the off season to say one way or the other.

Also I agree with Durkie, we take RG3 I will be pissed.

Commander of Awesome;1021652 wrote:Two games left and we're playing the hypothetical draft game. I'm not sold on Blackmon, seems to lack the athleticism and isn't big enough (Larry Fitz) to over come it. Not sure he's a stud in the Pros, hoping the combine/film breakdown in the off season to say one way or the other.

Also I agree with Durkie, we take RG3 I will be pissed.

Disagree with both of these points....

Blackmon is a stud and will have an "AJ Green" type impact on whatever team drafts him. He may not be 6'5'' but he has a ridiculous wingspan/overall catch radius and most importantly he CAN catch. He'd be perfect as the playmaking receiver the Browns need and if they pass on him, they may still be able to get IMO the only other WR worth taking in the 1st in Michael Floyd.

As for being pissed if the Browns take RGIII, I guess things like "winning" piss you off...which is fine. My opinions on RGIII are well-known which are that he is without question the best QB in this draft.

Y-Town Steelhound;1021784 wrote:Disagree with both of these points....

Blackmon is a stud and will have an "AJ Green" type impact on whatever team drafts him. He may not be 6'5'' but he has a ridiculous wingspan/overall catch radius and most importantly he CAN catch. He'd be perfect as the playmaking receiver the Browns need and if they pass on him, they may still be able to get IMO the only other WR worth taking in the 1st in Michael Floyd.

As for being pissed if the Browns take RGIII, I guess things like "winning" piss you off...which is fine. My opinions on RGIII are well-known which are that he is without question the best QB in this draft.

I would happily eat my crow if RGIII leads the Browns to victories, but I am just not sold on him.

Good posts today guys...

Here is what I don't understand......last year when McCoy was drafted everyone in the front office said McCoy will NOT see the field this year. I know we had injuries that forced him to get early action.....but why was he deemed the starter going into THIS season?

Here is what I am getting at:

Wallace has been in the WCO his entire career.....and has put up good numbers as a career backup. Their is no way in hell he is leading us to the playoffs, but at least a respectable record of 7-9 or 8-8 and a top 20 pick in the draft. Meanwhile let Colt learn this BRAND NEW SYSTEM and keep him on the sidelines until we can get those weapons to make this offense better. THEN that is when you put him out there with the talent and see what he can do with playmakers around him...if it doesn't work out then you can draft a franchise QB....if it does you look like a guy that knows how to draft qb's in the later rounds.

I think playing Colt has hurt the Browns in keeping Browns fans happy and believe even though you are building through the draft, you still need to win games to keep everyone believing the organization is making strides.

Browns have signed tight end Gronkowski....

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-1/Browns-make-roster-moves/32b233e8-c2a9-4a17-8dbc-611e2cfd6084

I understand that McCoy is in a new system yadda yadda. However, just from the eye test, he lacks the physical tools to get the job done IMO. New system doesn't account for bone head INTs, lack of zip on the ball, not throwing the WR open, bad accuracy, etc...

That's the wrong Gronkowski....we need rob.

Commander of Awesome;1021934 wrote:I understand that McCoy is in a new system yadda yadda. However, just from the eye test, he lacks the physical tools to get the job done IMO. New system doesn't account for bone head INTs, lack of zip on the ball, not throwing the WR open, bad accuracy, etc...

This has been my point all along. I know his receivers have dropped the ball and the O-Line has been far from stellar but the guy may lead the league in dropped interceptions.

If this team gets behind 10-14 points, who is confident that McCoy can consistently win coming from behind?

Commander of Awesome;1021934 wrote:I understand that McCoy is in a new system yadda yadda. However, just from the eye test, he lacks the physical tools to get the job done IMO. New system doesn't account for bone head INTs, lack of zip on the ball, not throwing the WR open, bad accuracy, etc...

I completely agree!!

I was just making the point if they really wanted to give him a true evaluation on performance at least let him learn the system his first few years in the league and get playmakers around him to see what he can do.

I agree with you though, I don't believe he has the physical tools to be a starting QB in the NFL.

OQB;1021937 wrote:That's the wrong Gronkowski....

LOL...like the Pats would release the GOOD one. :laugh:

BR1986FB;1021945 wrote:LOL...like the Pats would release the GOOD one. :laugh:

Haha wishful thinking

The Browns don't have TIME to give McCoy a long evaluation. He's a 3rd rounder. He's expendable. This draft will have a bunch of talented QB's and they will make their decision based off what they've seen, imo. Whether it's fair to Colt, or not...it doesn't matter.