Saw this in the steelers thread and I didn't want to get the steeler fans panties in a bunch.

killer_ewok;919990 wrote:Ben was spotted on crutches after the game today. MRI tonight or tomorrow.

hope he tore his rape muscle

Commander of Awesome;920029 wrote:Saw this in the steelers thread and I didn't want to get the steeler fans panties in a bunch.



hope he strained his rape muscle

Bound to happen eventually. They've neglected that O-Line for so long. Reminds me of early era (since 1999-2006) Browns.

I think what is confusing me the most is that each and every team...at any level has what they call their "bread and butter". Now your gameplan is going to change every single week, but your bread and butter is always a part of that gameplan. Through 4 games already, I sense that the coaches are just trying a different system each week to see what works the best, instead of identifying their bread and butter in the preseason and practice and making sure that you can execute that stuff every single time you run the plays. The bread and butter is something that doesn't change with each opponent because it works against everyone. I don't think the Browns know what their bread and butter is....which should raise some questions and concern from us fans....because I believe us fans know what the bread and butter should be.

OQB;920041 wrote:I think what is confusing me the most is that each and every team...at any level has what they call their "bread and butter". Now your gameplan is going to change every single week, but your bread and butter is always a part of that gameplan. Through 4 games already, I sense that the coaches are just trying a different system each week to see what works the best, instead of identifying their bread and butter in the preseason and practice and making sure that you can execute that stuff every single time you run the plays. The bread and butter is something that doesn't change with each opponent because it works against everyone. I don't think the Browns know what their bread and butter is....which should raise some questions and concern from us fans....because I believe us fans know what the bread and butter should be.

They have no identity. Mangini was a putz but at least they HAD an identity (hard nosed, tough players/disciplined//ball control/run the ball). With Shurmur I get the feeling they want to pass, pass, pass and, frankly, they don't have the personnel to do so. The problem with morphing to a "run first" philosophy now is that they really don't have that punishing FB to lead the way for the runner.

More balance will help both the running game and passing game.

[h=3]The transcript of Coach Pat Shurmur's post game press conference following the Browns' 31-13 loss to the Tennessee Titans.[/h](Opening statement)- “Disappointing lost, I would say. I told the team after the game, I came in here and we talked about two team victories the last two weeks and this was a team loss. You can boil it down however you want to boil it down. You can talk about usage of players and plays and stuff, but at the end of the day we lost. We let three big plays stretch the game out. They throw to the tight end, we don’t get him on the ground, they go down and score. A pick six where he’s clearly out of the pocket the best thing to do there is throw the ball away, not throw it late down the middle which he knows, don’t do it. Then they hit us on another pass on a swing arrow. Those three plays stretched the game out and then it makes it difficult to do all the things that you planned to do because of those things. Do I think we played very well, no. There are a lot of things that we need to get better at and it starts with me. We’ll have some times here in the Bye Week to get focused on what we’re going to do as we move forward. Typically, on a Bye Week whether you’ve won them all or lost them all, we just happen to be half and half, you decide what you’re going to do as you move forward and I’m sure everything you guys are going to ask me about will be talked about and discussed. I think the guys competed hard I just don’t think we played extremely well and there’s areas in the game where I think I can coach better. The Cleveland Browns lost today and that’s my responsibility. Thought we had a great week of practice, but part of the message was that the practice doesn’t guarantee victory. You have to go out and do it and we didn’t do it and that’s the reality of it. You’ll never hear me say anything else, this is a no excuses world and we got beat. I credit them, they’re a good football team and we knew that coming in. Not extremely flashy, just very good and they played a good game and they won. I would compliment them, they’ve got a good operation and they beat us.”
(On going for it on fourth and one with Armond Smith)- “It was fourth and one, I felt like we needed something, we felt like that was the play, we flipped it to him (Armond Smith) and they had a guy run through. We flip it to him and that’s one of those where it has a chance to go the distance. Now, we stopped them, it was fourth and one and my understanding was our defense did a nice job of stopping them; they didn’t get any points off of that, but I think there’s a place to be aggressive and I was trying to give us a little bit of a bump there. He’s a fast guy, fastest guy we’ve got, and we felt like if we got him to the perimeter it was a chance for a big play.”
(On if they sent a blitz)- “No, they had a guy run through and we blocked the guy we thought and it didn’t work.”
(On thinking about going for it on fourth and inches in the third quarter deep in their own territory)- “That is a little different story. We’re way back in our end and the game wasn’t out of reach at that point so absolutely I think there. The deal there is Mo’s (Massaquoi) got to get the first.”
(On third and one before the fourth and inches giving the ball to Peyton Hillis)- “We ran the ball with Peyton (Hillis). He was the fullback. It was a dive play. We were trying to surprise them. There’s a lot of ways to run the ball on third and one. Quick hitters to our best runner, quick hitter and you see that quite often and they’re not always lead plays. We didn’t execute it, we didn’t get it done.”
(On if he has a physical running game being a pass first offense)- “I think we do. I think there were times in the game there where we ran the ball pretty effectively.”
(On if he was disappointed in McCoy for laying on the ground after he threw an interception)- “No, I was yelling him to get up and tackle the guy. He got hit so I’m not disappointed. I think there’s area’s where we need to get better and he needs to tackle the guy. He battled, he had his mistakes like everyone else.”
(On if there is any news with Joe Haden’s injury)- “I skipped right over that I’m sorry, I apologize. Let me go back on the injury thing, Joe Haden has a knee sprain and he’ll be checked out and then Mo Massaquoi has a shoulder thing and he came out of the game so those are the two guys. I’m sorry, I should have hit that first, I was getting distracted.”
(On if Haden hurt himself in the first half and played through it for awhile)- “Yeah.”
(On if Scott Fujita has to do a better job with man to man coverage)- “Scott had him man to man and once the ball was caught I think it was Usama (Young). We just have to tackle him. They’re going to make plays where the ball gets pitched down field a few yards and then we have to eliminate the big play. I’ll look at it tomorrow. Again, I always reserve judgment for what happened, but based on what I saw is that they made a nice throw and catch and we have to get him on the ground.”
(On if he needs a bigger threat in order to stretch the field and open things up)- “I don’t know about stretching the field, I do know this we have to throw the ball in rhythm, catch it and make yards, however we do it. The guys that we have are the guys we have and I have to feel like we can be effective offensively throwing and running.”
(On being competitive the first three games and not so much today)- “Well you see what happens when you let big plays happen. The game changes on any team that plays and we let the score get out of hand, which makes it difficult. Then you’re fighting, scratching and clawing and you can’t do that.”
(On if Montario Hardesty has issues catching the ball out of the backfield)- “I don’t think he does. I think he dropped a couple and we will get that corrected.”
(On if Hardesty’s drops affected him mentally throughout the game)- “No, I think it was just a couple of bad plays, but there is nothing wrong with the way he catches the football. He just has to do it better.”
(On his thoughts about T.J. Ward’s pass coverage) - “I think he challenged, but I don’t know about him struggling. I wouldn’t make that statement until I sit down and watch the tape. I don’t know what to tell you there. I know he battled and I think there were completions happening. There was one in the red zone and I know the coverage was tight. I don’t know what you are referring to, but I’m sure he’ll tell you he needs to play better.”
(On an ESPN report stating there was talk in the Browns’ locker room that Hillis didn’t play last week because of his contract situation)- “I was made aware of that by Neal (Gulkis) here after the game. I don’t know what to address there. You would have to try to find out who is talking about that because it didn’t come from me. I don’t know anything about that.”
(On if there were any concerns about Hillis other than he was sick)- “No, Peyton was sick, that was my understanding.”
(On if it was tough to get pressure on Matt Hasselbeck)- “It seemed like he had some time; we’ll have to look at it and see why it didn’t happen. I thought a couple of times they did a nice job of blocking the blitz and I saw some other times where he got the ball out. But, I didn’t see anything magical about what they were doing. I think they executed well.”
(On if it was just a function of the game that McCoy threw 61 passes and set a Browns franchise record)- “Absolutely, yeah I don’t know what he was, 40-for-60 or something. It’s typical you know and that’s why when you look at yards and all that stuff those statistics get skewed.”
(On what he said to McCoy after he threw that interception)- “Well, I coach him like you would. You’re out of the pocket, you either throw the ball away unless there’s a guy clearly open and he didn’t do that or you run with it and get yardage and get down like he did a couple other times. It’s just like anything, you have to continue to work on the little things and as we go through the season here you’ll see every once in awhile some bad things pop up that we’ve got to get corrected.”
(On if there are any concerns with McCoy going forward)- “No, Colt’s our quarterback. I look forward to working with him and helping him lead this team to victories so no I don’t have any concern.”

Frankly, I'm kinda sick of Chuck Booms (92.3) being such a McCoy "apologist." Granted, I think that Shurmur IS in over his head but Booms gives listeners the impression that McCoy can "do no wrong." It's ALWAYS on Shurmur's play calling and the "shitty WR's."

Now I'll give you the fact that the Browns WR's are nothing to write home about but do people HONESTLY believe that Shurmur is drawing up 3-5 yard pass plays on every pass attempt? McCoy is afraid to throw the ball downfield (consistently) and checks down almost EVERY time.

If I had a nickel for every "Cribbs was wide open streaking down the sideline and McCoy checked down to XYZ player."

I'm also not thrilled with Shurmur's new "I'll show you" power struggle with Peyton Hillis. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Holmgren needs to get involved here or this is ALL gonna blow up. He started it with his "we're RUSHING to re-sign Peyton" comment.

BR1986FB;920422 wrote:Frankly, I'm kinda sick of Chuck Booms (92.3) being such a McCoy "apologist." Granted, I think that Shurmur IS in over his head but Booms gives listeners the impression that McCoy can "do no wrong." It's ALWAYS on Shurmur's play calling and the "shitty WR's."

Now I'll give you the fact that the Browns WR's are nothing to write home about but do people HONESTLY believe that Shurmur is drawing up 3-5 yard pass plays on every pass attempt? McCoy is afraid to throw the ball downfield (consistently) and checks down almost EVERY time.

If I had a nickel for every "Cribbs was wide open streaking down the sideline and McCoy checked down to XYZ player."

I'm also not thrilled with Shurmur's new "I'll show you" power struggle with Peyton Hillis. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Holmgren needs to get involved here or this is ALL gonna blow up. He started it with his "we're RUSHING to re-sign Peyton" comment.

First off, the guy on 92.3 today mixed up Quinn and Mccoy's names I found that funny....

on your 3rd point, We'd have enough money to buy the franchise from Lerner so he could just be with his soccer team fulltime.

Your last point is just a page out of the Mangini handbook.....it's stupid and should've never happened in the first place.


I'll be responding to your second point in a minute, gotta do some research.

Pat Shurmur's first Offensive Coordinator job was with the Rams, before that he was a QB coach for the Eagles. This guy really only has 2 years of playcalling under his belt.....interesting!

Now in those 2 years, here are the stats of his Quarterbacks:

2009: QB's were Bulger, Boller, Null. Passing offense was last in the NFC.
2010: Sam Bradford was QB
2011: McCoy is his QB through 4 games.

Year	games	att	comp	att/game	yds	avg	td	int	long	20+	40+	Rating
2009	9	247	149	27.4	1,469	5.9	5	6	50	16	2	70.7
2009	7	176	98	25.1	899	5.1	3	6	35	10		61.2
2009	4	119	73	29.8	566	4.8	3	9	25	5		49.9
2010	16	590	354	36.9	3,512	6.0	18	15	49	36	4	76.5
2011	4	172	100	43.0	984	5.7	6	3	56	7	1	78.7

Now, all the avg/throw is around the same 4-6 yds...but if you look at the elite QB's, their avg/throw is up around 8-9 and their 20+ and 40+ throws are significantly higher.


Maybe Shurmur doesn't like the vertical passing game?

Still beg to differ on the "vertical passing game" comment.

If Shurmur is only designing a "dink & dunk" type of offense he needs to be canned immediately.

From the comments I'm hearing about WR's often being open downfield only for Colt to check down, I have to believe there's more a fear/apprehension of him (McCoy, himself) cutting it loose than actually being restricted by the play called.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2011/10/micro-analyzing-the-armond-smith-pitch/

Commander of Awesome;920616 wrote:http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2011/10/micro-analyzing-the-armond-smith-pitch/

That's a pretty nice breakdown. If he breaks an ANKLE tackle he might be gone. smh

Yeah it defends the playcall, still dont like the call though lol.

Commander of Awesome;920631 wrote:Yeah it defends the playcall, still dont like the call though lol.

If they were going to run Hillis they should've run him left.

BR1986FB;920613 wrote:Still beg to differ on the "vertical passing game" comment.

If Shurmur is only designing a "dink & dunk" type of offense he needs to be canned immediately.

From the comments I'm hearing about WR's often being open downfield only for Colt to check down, I have to believe there's more a fear/apprehension of him (McCoy, himself) cutting it loose than actually being restricted by the play called.

I was at the first two home games, and the WR's were not even close to getting open downfield. I can't speak for the titans game, but its hard to believe all of a sudden these WR's got open on one of the best defenses in the league so far.

Alex Mack is having his Apendix removed today. Hope he's healthy for Oakland.

Commander of Awesome;920616 wrote:http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2011/10/micro-analyzing-the-armond-smith-pitch/

Is that a play to run on 4th and 1 or 3rd and 1. I think the coach was being too smart and outplayed the percentages.

BR1986FB;920629 wrote:That's a pretty nice breakdown. If he breaks an ANKLE tackle he might be gone. smh

If they run that same play only handing it to Hillis he for sure breaks a tackle and gets the first down.

Browns fans are the worst. A lot of you predicted little to no success this year when it came to the records. Sitting at 2-2, we have the same record as the steelers and bengals in the division. While we have not been sharp on offense, we still have been in games. The Titans beat the Ravens, who have dominated their other 3 wins. While yes it was a disappointing game, our defense let up big plays and the titans defense is number 1 in the NFL. So much panic for a 2-2 record with the bye week coming up to get some time off. Let's wait until 8-10 games in to see where we stand before crucifying mccoy. Jesus christ, we had no preseason, very little time to mesh on offense(an offense based on quick, timed routes, and are playing a lot of rookies. Obviously there is going to be some growing pains. Between this forum and OBR, it's tough to read.

DeyDurkie5;921047 wrote:Browns fans are the worst. A lot of you predicted little to no success this year when it came to the records. Sitting at 2-2, we have the same record as the steelers and bengals in the division. While we have not been sharp on offense, we still have been in games. The Titans beat the Ravens, who have dominated their other 3 wins. While yes it was a disappointing game, our defense let up big plays and the titans defense is number 1 in the NFL. So much panic for a 2-2 record with the bye week coming up to get some time off. Let's wait until 8-10 games in to see where we stand before crucifying mccoy. Jesus christ, we had no preseason, very little time to mesh on offense(an offense based on quick, timed routes, and are playing a lot of rookies. Obviously there is going to be some growing pains. Between this forum and OBR, it's tough to read.

Browns fans are always pessimistic, if you haven't realized that by now, then I don't know what to tell you. I do agree with your comment about the offense. I don't think they are really THAT bad. If they had an offseason to learn their new scheme, I don't think it would look as bad. Shurmur still needs to work on his play calling though.

Edit: Where did you find that quote from Little?

Being pessimistic by nature, doesn't preclude Browns fans from noticing whether a team seems to be making progress or not.

Sunday's game was a big step backwards in too many ways. That is why Browns fans are unhappy; not the loss per se, but how they lost.

It's disturbing to see McCoy fidgit in the pocket like he did. I've written before that I believe this is a confidence issue related as much to the line as anything. He simply doesn't trust his line enough to step up and stay put, while making the reads.

Perhaps it's also a lack of confidence in the receivers if they aren't getting open further down field. The line obviously has to block a second or two longer for a 20 yard route than it does a slant or 10 yard curl.

I haven't given up on McCoy because he's got a lot of character, and I believe he'll be able to see what he's doing wrong and get it corrected with the help of the coaches. Now, whether or not it's correctable if the OL stays inconsistent (and the wide receivers too) is another matter.

I posted something similar on the obr, and got promptly banned. Anyone tell me if my thread is still up? BR?

like_that;920643 wrote:I was at the first two home games, and the WR's were not even close to getting open downfield. I can't speak for the titans game, but its hard to believe all of a sudden these WR's got open on one of the best defenses in the league so far.

Greg little was open several times downfield but colt missed him. I had a pretty good look at it from the cheap seats.

To be fair though, he was running for his life because our line sucks

Hopefully this bye week can help get some players the time they need to regroup and come back to work ready to give the fans a game they want to see.

The Haden and Mack injuries came at a good time because they will have 2 weeks to really recover....and let's be honest these are 2 guys that won't skip a beat because they missed practice.

DeyDurkie5;922194 wrote:I posted something similar on the obr, and got promptly banned. Anyone tell me if my thread is still up? BR?

That thread is locked.