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Is NASA About to Announce the Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life?

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Serious Business ▸ Is NASA About to Announce the Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life?
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Dec 2, 2010 12:56 PM
~U~;583776 wrote:Life on another planet = End of religion.

100% false and naive at best.
Dec 2, 2010 12:56pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Dec 2, 2010 1:00 PM
O-Trap;584884 wrote:Back to the topic, the problem is that by the orderly study of only the natural and physical universe (ie "science") alone, one can neither prove nor disprove an entity that, by its very definition, supersedes said universe. Thus, alien life ... life that still exists within, and is controlled by, the physical and natural laws that control our universe ... does nothing less or more to prove or disprove the existence of a sentient, supernatural entity that may have purposefully created it, and therefore exists outside its boundaries.

This is why I like O-Trap, we don't believe 100% the same "things" about God/religion, but man we use the same throught processes/philosophy.
Dec 2, 2010 1:00pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 2, 2010 1:05 PM
Zunardo;584971 wrote:Irrelevant conclusion?

I was going for deductive fallacy. His statement works off the basic syllogism model (2 premises and 1 conclusion). If we were to find alien life, the two premises would be true, but they don't correlate in such a way to make the conclusion true.

Premise 1: The Bible does not mention alien life. (true)
Premise 2: Alien life does exist. (true)
Conclusion: The assertions based on the Bible are false. (not inherently true)

To put it in more extreme terms (that are nonsensical on purpose):

Premise 1: A biology textbook does not mention grilled cheese sandwiches. (true)
Premise 2: Grilled cheese sandwiches do exist. (true)
Conclusion: The assertions based on the info in this textbook are false. (not inherently true)
Dec 2, 2010 1:05pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Dec 2, 2010 1:31 PM
Any biology textbook that doesn't mention grilled cheese sandwiches is pure bullshit!
Dec 2, 2010 1:31pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Dec 2, 2010 1:45 PM
I always enjoy reading Otrap and Jmog's debate during these threads. It's like they're opening a can of BeatABitch on every post! LOL
Dec 2, 2010 1:45pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 2, 2010 1:48 PM
Heretic;585035 wrote:Any biology textbook that doesn't mention grilled cheese sandwiches is pure bullshit!

Dec 2, 2010 1:48pm
F

fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Dec 2, 2010 1:53 PM
O-Trap;584959 wrote:If a book, argument, statement, etc. doesn't speak to a topic, then OF COURSE it's not going to mention it.

What he said is the equivalent of me saying that because a Trig textbook doesn't mention splitting the atom, then the textbook must be dismissed as invalid.

Now, the merits of a book, statement, argument, etc. are to be logically evaluated on what they DO address, not on what they don't.
This, of course, is a valid point, and I'm shocked that it needs to be made so consistently on the OC.

If anything, the Bible tells us that there is other life out there beyond our human existence. I fail to see how finding life elsewhere would somehow "disprove" the Bible. That is a specious argument that's neither here nor there.
Dec 2, 2010 1:53pm
Bigred1995's avatar

Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

1,042 posts
Dec 2, 2010 1:53 PM
Watch NASA’s press conference on new astrobiology discovery online:http://cot.ag/igrzEM
Dec 2, 2010 1:53pm
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
Dec 2, 2010 2:02 PM
I would love to see religion dis-proved in my lifetime...be awesome to see everyone's faces when their jebus was actually just a skilled carpenter and master blunt roller
Dec 2, 2010 2:02pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 2, 2010 2:25 PM
DeyDurkie5;585087 wrote:I would love to see religion dis-proved in my lifetime...be awesome to see everyone's faces when their jebus was actually just a skilled carpenter and master blunt roller

So is it religion you're wanting to see disproved or just Christianity?
Dec 2, 2010 2:25pm
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krambman

Senior Member

3,606 posts
Dec 2, 2010 2:27 PM
O-Trap;585138 wrote:So is it religion you're wanting to see disproved or just Christianity?

To say religion in general is just ridiculous, because religion is just a formalized set of beliefs. Science is a religion. Atheism is a religion (although I think the vast majority of atheists are really humanists). I think he either means specifically Christianity or what he would consider major world "superstition" religions.
Dec 2, 2010 2:27pm
S

SnotBubbles

Dec 2, 2010 2:28 PM
DeyDurkie5;585087 wrote:I would love to see religion dis-proved in my lifetime...be awesome to see everyone's faces when their jebus was actually just a skilled carpenter and master blunt roller

That would be great for the world (sarcasm). That's one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read on here. I don't know what I believe, but that comment still irritates the shit out of me. The Christian religion is what this country was founded on, it's teachings are what we base law on. Let's disprove something that teaches morals and values and scares people out of doing harmful things. You're right, I would love to see science induced panic throughout the world...murders, thefts, rapes...and it would all happen because man no longer has to fear God's ultimate wrath. Even if there is no God, the belief in him is one of the good qualities left in this world.

As for your comment, you better hope that you're right and God isn't real. If he is, you're fucked. I'm not going to say I believe myself, but I'm certainly not going to mock it/Him.
Dec 2, 2010 2:28pm
F

fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Dec 2, 2010 2:41 PM
DeyDurkie5;585087 wrote:I would love to see religion dis-proved in my lifetime...be awesome to see everyone's faces when their jebus was actually just a skilled carpenter and master blunt roller

What sort of proof would you need to disprove religion? Proving a negative always strikes me as a tall order.
Dec 2, 2010 2:41pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 2, 2010 2:48 PM
fan_from_texas;585153 wrote:What sort of proof would you need to disprove religion? Proving a negative always strikes me as a tall order.

Nevermind the fact that, as I mentioned before, we don't have access to the necessary facts or data to disprove something that exists above that which we CAN prove/disprove.
Dec 2, 2010 2:48pm
Bigred1995's avatar

Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

1,042 posts
Dec 2, 2010 2:50 PM
SnotBubbles;585143 wrote:That would be great for the world (sarcasm). That's one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read on here. I don't know what I believe, but that comment still irritates the shit out of me. The Christian religion is what this country was founded on, it's teachings are what we base law on. Let's disprove something that teaches morals and values and scares people out of doing harmful things. You're right, I would love to see science induced panic throughout the world...murders, thefts, rapes...and it would all happen because man no longer has to fear God's ultimate wrath. Even if there is no God, the belief in him is one of the good qualities left in this world.

As for your comment, you better hope that you're right and God isn't real. If he is, you're fucked. I'm not going to say I believe myself, but I'm certainly not going to mock it/Him.
Isn't it funny that these things take place everyday by god fearing people?
Your entire post is a joke and reek of ignorance!
Dec 2, 2010 2:50pm
krambman's avatar

krambman

Senior Member

3,606 posts
Dec 2, 2010 2:50 PM
SnotBubbles;585143 wrote:That would be great for the world (sarcasm). That's one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read on here. I don't know what I believe, but that comment still irritates the shit out of me. The Christian religion is what this country was founded on, it's teachings are what we base law on. Let's disprove something that teaches morals and values and scares people out of doing harmful things. You're right, I would love to see science induced panic throughout the world...murders, thefts, rapes...and it would all happen because man no longer has to fear God's ultimate wrath. Even if there is no God, the belief in him is one of the good qualities left in this world.

As for your comment, you better hope that you're right and God isn't real. If he is, you're fucked. I'm not going to say I believe myself, but I'm certainly not going to mock it/Him.

I don't necessarily agree with everything you said but I tend to agree with the overall sentiment. The existence of religion gives a basis for morality, and that's a good thing. Without a fear of God and his wrath there is no need for morality. No action could be good or bad except insofar as the immediate consequences. Morality is reduced to egoism, as the only moral "good" is doing what pleases you and bring you pleasure, with a complete disregard for everyone and everything else. This also makes morality difficult because what might be morally good for one person might be morally bad for another. And if something is good for one and bad for another than it can neither be good nor bad. There has to be some sort of cosmic measuring stick or consequence to govern morality, otherwise people would just be moral for moralities sake, which would be rediculous since morality wouldn't actually exist outside of each individual.
Dec 2, 2010 2:50pm
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chicago510

Original Chatterer

5,728 posts
Dec 2, 2010 2:58 PM
mcburg93;585159 wrote:nasa finds new microbe to help discover stuff in space lol

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/12/02/NASA_scientists_discover_extreme_microbe.html

May not seem like much, but as a biologist this is an incredible revelation. Adenosine Triphosphate is the energy currency for all life as we know it, plus phosphorous is an essential component of DNA and RNA, and the fact that an organism can survive without phosphorous is mindblowing.
Dec 2, 2010 2:58pm
F

fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Dec 2, 2010 3:09 PM
O-Trap;585158 wrote:Nevermind the fact that, as I mentioned before, we don't have access to the necessary facts or data to disprove something that exists above that which we CAN prove/disprove.


Exactly. A good analogy for this is to envision an ant walking along that seeks to prove or disprove the existence of some particular human, without the sentience to begin the analysis or gather evidence. The ant, to the best of his abilities, cannot prove or disprove my existence--he can perhaps observe the ways in which I affect him, but he lacks the cognition to do anything with that. So he can tell his ant buddies that he's disproved my existence, and then I step on him.

If God exists, we wouldn't expect to be able to directly prove that. Rather, we'd expect to see him acting in this world, which is what we do see. The trick is that this "proof" is generally consistent with God not existing, either, which makes things tough.

I'm amazed that the basics of this seem to go over the heads of so many militant atheists who perhaps get their jollies by arguing with jr high kids. There are some good argument for and against the existence of God, but people aren't making very good ones against on this thread.
Dec 2, 2010 3:09pm
S

SnotBubbles

Dec 2, 2010 3:28 PM
Bigred1995;585163 wrote:Isn't it funny that these things take place everyday by god fearing people?
Your entire post is a joke and reek of ignorance!

I'm talking about the magnitude and prevalence of the occurrences. It happens, but what the Bible and other religious scripts (in most cases) have taught scare people away from doing it more frequently. If God was disproved completely, by science, the entire world would revolt. You wouldn't want to walk out your door. No military or law enforcement would be strong enough to stop it. Call it ignorance, I call it logic. Again, this is coming from a person who as of right now, does not believe. Most religions are good things which teach peace and values.

It would be like trying to take a t-bone away from a starved, rabie-infested dog. You're fine as long as you leave it alone. Reach your hand in there to take it away and you're going to get bit.
Dec 2, 2010 3:28pm
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Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

1,042 posts
Dec 2, 2010 3:33 PM
SnotBubbles;585208 wrote:I'm talking about the magnitude and prevalence of the occurrences. It happens, but what the Bible and other religious scripts (in most cases) have taught scare people away from doing it more frequently. If God was disproved completely, by science, the entire world would revolt. You wouldn't want to walk out your door. No military or law enforcement would be strong enough to stop it. Call it ignorance, I call it logic. Again, this is coming from a person who as of right now, does not believe. Most religions are good things which teach peace and values.

It would be like trying to take a t-bone away from a starved, rabbinic dog. You're fine as long as you leave it alone. Reach your hand in there to take it away and you're going to get bit.
I don't think you give enough credit to your fellow humans. Morality is more of an evolutionary product than a religious one.

I did learn something from this last post though! Don't try and take food from Jewish dogs!!! LOL :D
Dec 2, 2010 3:33pm
S

SnotBubbles

Dec 2, 2010 3:38 PM
Bigred1995;585211 wrote:I don't think you give enough credit to your fellow humans. Morality is more of an evolutionary product than a religious one.

I did learn something from this last post though! Don't try and take food from Jewish dogs!!! LOL :D

No, I don't. Human nature is to do all of those things that I stated; murder, steal, rape.

As for the rabbinic dog...I don't know how that slipped past me....I feel like an idiot and am just going to go back and correct it now. :D
Dec 2, 2010 3:38pm
S

SnotBubbles

Dec 2, 2010 3:40 PM


Don't fuck with rabbinic dogs and/or their t-bone.
Dec 2, 2010 3:40pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Dec 2, 2010 3:41 PM
Bigred1995;585211 wrote:I don't think you give enough credit to your fellow humans. Morality is more of an evolutionary product than a religious one.

I did learn something from this last post though! Don't try and take food from Jewish dogs!!! LOL :D

I don't know, there are a few logical proofs I've seen that says morals can NOT come from evolution or a naturalistic worldview.

I could dig it up, and I haven't researched it extensively to see if there is any fallacy in the proof, but just a thought to ponder.
Dec 2, 2010 3:41pm
Bigred1995's avatar

Bigred1995

Ohio Chatter - CFO

1,042 posts
Dec 2, 2010 4:21 PM
jmog;585221 wrote:I don't know, there are a few logical proofs I've seen that says morals can NOT come from evolution or a naturalistic worldview.

I could dig it up, and I haven't researched it extensively to see if there is any fallacy in the proof, but just a thought to ponder.

I'd be interested in seeing those proofs. I've read and heard several items as to why and how morality is of evolutionary origins and not religious. One of the better ones is a talk by Dr. Andy Thomson, you can see it here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnXmDaI8IEo
Dec 2, 2010 4:21pm