Red Rider Nation;942671 wrote:Really? Change everything? No just our offense. Stop being absent minded! With this offense we cannot continue to win games. Remember in 2 weeks we will be playing much better competition!

100% correct Red Rider Nation.

OQB;942813 wrote:I don't think we need to attend practice to see what everyone can do....I know I base my opinions on what I see on the field every Friday night....same with just about everyone on here except for a few. You can be an All-American practice player but if it doesn't transfer over to games on Friday nights then who cares what happens in practice? Just my opinion of course.

Of all the posts I have read on here this one is the most accurate. There are different types of fans on here but for most of us we can only share our opinions based on what we see on Fridays and moving forward on Saturdays. Orrville fans are definitely passionate as we are sitting here debating over a team that is #2 in our region. Its been a fun ride this yhear and I hope it continues for 6 more games!

OQB;942813 wrote:I don't think we need to attend practice to see what everyone can do....I know I base my opinions on what I see on the field every Friday night....same with just about everyone on here except for a few. You can be an All-American practice player but if it doesn't transfer over to games on Friday nights then who cares what happens in practice? Just my opinion of course.

Well let's have an educated discussion on what should be done. Keeping in mind you cannot just say something like "move Summers to Fullback" without having an argument for who now will be the anchor to your Offensive line week 10 and beyond? And keep in mind that we now get Joel Zook back on both sides of the ball. And saying we need to throw the short pass is not s solution unless you can go out on the field and make the guy do that? I would love to have a constructive discussion. let us begin....no sarcasm either

I would like to know this answer. What is considered a punt formation? I think this a rule interpretation that needs defined. The CF QB was also the punter and he was no more than 6-7 yards behind the line. We got a roughing the punter penalty after the ball hit the ground? I thought if the ball hit the ground all bets are off as for the punter? maybe that rule changed? but how can a guy in that formation have the protection of a punter?

For starters our QB has to move up in the pocket when pressure arises. He is too quick to get rid of the ball before the play has time to develop. He has to see this on film. THe other thing is his inability to tuck and run when needed. I personally think these are 2 keys to our woes and the 2 easiest things to fix. Is Kyle seeong thhimself make these mistakes? He overthrows 90% of the time because he does not move up in the pocket and find a shorter receiver open. He eyes one receiver, takes 3 steps backs and launches and usually means 3 and out. My other thing is mix in a double reverse involving stew turner and some more screen passes. I believe Stew scored on a screen pass against Madison and we didnt do that at all last week.

Red Rider Nation;942906 wrote:For starters our QB has to move up in the pocket when pressure arises. He is too quick to get rid of the ball before the play has time to develop. He has to see this on film. THe other thing is his inability to tuck and run when needed. I personally think these are 2 keys to our woes and the 2 easiest things to fix. Is Kyle seeong thhimself make these mistakes? He overthrows 90% of the time because he does not move up in the pocket and find a shorter receiver open. He eyes one receiver, takes 3 steps backs and launches and usually means 3 and out. My other thing is mix in a double reverse involving stew turner and some more screen passes. I believe Stew scored on a screen pass against Madison and we didnt do that at all last week.

I also think in Week 10 you cannot afford to reinvent the wheel. Too late for that. Just a few corrections and we will be fine! And a few new plays to me are no brainers

I really think Stu was more of a decoy Friday? Watch the replay. He was not moving well enough to do that. How do you get a kid to do this in a game? This has been discussed for 23 games? Really frustrating for all of us because we have been blessed with mobile QBs. My own thoughts are the deep ball is our QB's choice because it is safe. Si is overthrowing....safe. We cannot win in the playoffs with this mentality...i agree. Wish I knew the answer for that

I would like to see more of a naked bootleg with drew. We ran something similar Friday with some motion going the other way, but I am talking about a full fledged bootleg. The way they defenses are keying on anywhere Mason goes..especially the pitch....take advantage of that with Drew's athleticism. He needs to beat a rush end and then he should have open field to run or pass?

1. I would continue to keep Kyle at QB....he has 22 games under his belt now and is 16-7 as a starter despite being inconsistent, but you have to go with experience this time of year and he gives us that. When he is on, he is a darn good qb and the offense scores points.

2. I would use Monheim, Davis, and Zook as your 3 rb's and rotate them in with the play call....instead of having lichti run to the sideline each play. Also makes us unpredictable with just Mason at rb....we have seen defense key on him and the offense is shut down.

3. Specifically call plays that have routes under 10 yards....ie Mirror 21 which is basically a slant/out pass concept or an all curl/option pattern. Their are plenty of pass plays in Davaults playbook that don't involve a seam/fade route....let's start using them.

4. Let your playmakers touch the ball is the TOP priority forget about the last name and use ALL of your weapons......yes that would mean use Stew AND Drew as a wildcat qb, say what you want but these two with the ball in their hands in open space can be dangerous, take advantage of it and maximize their potential. Also call easy screen passes to get the ball out in space.


5. No matter what the coaches do, what plays they call, who they put on the field....it comes down to the PLAYERS executing on Friday nights with pressure in front of a crowd of dedicated fans who wants nothing more for the Red Riders to win.

6. BEING HEALTHY....this is probably the most important thing to us, having key players dinged up doesn't help and hinders what they can do on the field. We should be close to full strength Saturday night.

Do we Move Mason to fullback and Zook to Tail. Personally, I like a big power back at tail like Mason, but I hate to wast Zook? Maybe a combination? On watching film Mason just gets so many yards out nothing. Maybe Joel can do the same thing..I don't know. I think we will start to see what we had earlier this year which is a combination with the majority of the snaps out of the eye with joel at TB.

I've been out of town. It sounds like I missed something. We won. Congrats to the Riders. It sounds like we are still not happy. I've been out of the discussion but I will say this. I think we will be fine once we get into the playoffs. We are winning against much bigger teams then we are going to run into in the playoffs. I know it hasn't been pretty but we are winning.

Good points except for #2. Matt cannot play RB with knee...I think. Having Mason and Joel...2 of your every down LBs run plays in??? and out. No way. I want both of them on field every play somewhere.

matt could play slot (H) in spread or eagle formations and be the guy to read the hot route or catch a pass over the middle.

So you are saying put Matt at H instead of Mason? You know, we have been one dimensional for the past 4-5 weeks because we lost our other RB. Let's not forget this. If I were a team playing us during those weeks I would say I am stopping #25 and making #10 beat us. We are not stout enough up front to run it down anyone's throat so hence it was what it was. I think we get Joel back on offense./....I hope. Now we get a very athletic/fast Tailback and a very powerful h back. Our Counter's should be more effective which they have been nonexistent during this stretch. I think this will take some of the pressure off Kyle as well. We just really need Stew and Drew to be 100%. That is so important.

I hated to come on here and whine the past few weeks....but we were very undermanned for Ashland, Mason played Sr with a broken hand, Drew gone at half time with the ankle and been hobbling ever since, /stew with the ribs and now the Hammy. Brown out for Ashland, Tyrone white out for 2 of those games. We are thin to begin with so those things have a big effect on our performance...especially Offense. i think we are fortunate to have gutted out a couple/three tough Victories during that stretch. There were at least 3-4 weeks in a row where Stew and Drew didn't practice til Wed or Thurs.

Maybe the terminology has changed since I was playing...probably has but the H guy was fullback and the slot guy in spread formation....the rb was the tailback......which is what Mason would be in that scenario.

let's say we have 3rd and 7 and we need a pass play.....I know this is probably not what the coaches have down as positions but this is what I would have:

Spread formation

(X) Turner wide left
(Y) Brenner wide right
(Z) Lemon/Davis slot right
(H) Davis/Monheim/Zook slot left
(TB) Monheim/Zook

My opinion on the QB situation is that we are WAY past "midstream" and cannot "change horses". We've got to work with what we've got but "tweek" it a little bit.

BRF;942957 wrote:My opinion on the QB situation is that we are WAY past "midstream" and cannot "change horses". We've got to work with what we've got but "tweek" it a little bit.

completely agree!

I agree, I think with everyone healthy Kyle will do fine. The one thing Drew can bring is if teams load the box and we go "No back" to spread them out which we did very effectively with Joey B in some playoff games, he has the athleticism to do that more so than Kyle. We could not do this for an entire game, but if we empty the backfield I like him there. We still have deep threats with Weaver and Turner. If we get healthy this is just another wrinkle to cause problems for an opposing team. Now with this run threat, as a linebacker you need to be aware that which helps open the middle of the field.

And if we get a night like Chagrin last year weather wise. We do this all night. They were beating us up front with 4 guys. We get in a no back with Drew and let them try to chase us around. They blitz...he hots the hot route.

What about the "no huddle" offense....I remember when Tim, Kyle, myself, and Joey played we would start the game off in the no huddle and used it often during games.....other than the obvious two minute drills. Changing the pace of the offense may help as well catch the defense off guard and just get the big play needed to keep a drive going.

I think we see this more in the next couple weeks as well if we get healed. Just hard to do that with guys hobbling, but I know the staff sees the same thing that Kyle gets in a rythymn better in that offense. It just really puts some pressure on your defense and with 5-6 guys going two ways it is a risk.

But we had 5-6 guys going both ways back then too and the defense held up....not arguing, just making a point lol. I definately think if we can get full strength it will allow us to do a lot more on the field.

I agree.

let's hope we can have the same week 10 result as last year!

Go Riders!

5knots;942901 wrote:I would like to know this answer. What is considered a punt formation? I think this a rule interpretation that needs defined. The CF QB was also the punter and he was no more than 6-7 yards behind the line. We got a roughing the punter penalty after the ball hit the ground? I thought if the ball hit the ground all bets are off as for the punter? maybe that rule changed? but how can a guy in that formation have the protection of a punter?

I believe as long as the punter does not attempt to run, but is simply picking the ball up and punting, he is still has that punter protection.