skank;587289 wrote:Great post, I will tell you that I have seen some pretty darn good teams here in Massillon, but as I have said before, the "parochial advantage' HAS really derailed our program, I mean to play the Moeller tri state all star team in the '80s, the Ignatius Greater NEO all star teams in the '90s and '00s, then we run into the St X parochial power in the 05 title game. The 91 team was loaded with talent, talent that went on to OSU, BGSU, Kentucky, Toledo, Mich. State, Another to Kentucky, another to BGSU, Mt. Union. western Ky. and we still couldn't beat your all star team that year, maybe you're right.

Being from Massillon, has it occurred to you that the great Paul Brown teams were great because Paul Brown was coach? Maybe Steuby fans should realize that Reno has something to do with their success? Do you think leadership, drive, inspiration, belief or other intangibles have something to do with success on the field and in everyday life? I don't know, but just maybe you guys should start looking there instead of going right to the R word because you just can't figure out why some privates do pretty well at the higher echelons of sports and everything else.

skank;587295 wrote:No, if Shadyside was allowed to "assemble" the talent like so many Parochs, they may have been on the other side of the 71 margin.

Or maybe if Shadyside could "develop" the talent it has, inspire them to play better than the sum of their talents, they could be on the other side also.

aged jock;587304 wrote:Or maybe if Shadyside could "develop" the talent it has, inspire them to play better than the sum of their talents, they could be on the other side also.

After watching the first half of the DV game are you saying that Coldwater should "develop" their players better?

Sorry, but the pathetic excuses you "privates" use to rationalize the recruitment issue is just that...pathetic. Whine all you want to justify it. Myself and others aren't going anywhere. A few minutes ago during the Urseline vs Coldwater game Greg Frey and the other announcer mentioned how some public school coaches have "voiced" their concern about private school athletes....the "areas" from which they are allowed to come in and play from. Interesting. Yet many of you condone it. Tells a lot about your character. Win at all costs. Hollow victories.

clovis.....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha yes, hollow victory. Like it or not. Glad to make your day.

wags6817;587306 wrote:After watching the first half of the DV game are you saying that Coldwater should "develop" their players better?

Didn't see it, but they usually do develop them pretty well. As an Alter fan, we had them down by 3 TD's twice in the regional semis a couple of years ago, but Coach Reed told them to "never, never, never, never give up". Much as I hated it, they didn't die. They had a couple of pretty good baseball players who passed their way back into the game and beat us 59-52. They played inspired football, although they couldn't stop our running game. We wound up stopping ourselves.

BTW, our QB in that game was Austin Boucher - he being the MAC Champion Miami Redhawks' RS freshman sensation who passed them to victory last night. Congrats to Miami and Austin. I thought Miami looked pretty inspired last night - beating the nation's # 24 team for the hardware.

I think its time to let the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, and Spurs have their own playoffs too. They've won way too many championships. It's not fair!! (tear)

"clovis.....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha yes, hollow victory. Like it or not. Glad to make your day."
Well I would truly like to know the grounds for it being a hollow victory.

aged jock;587312 wrote:Didn't see it, but they usually do develop them pretty well. As an Alter fan, we had them down by 3 TD's twice in the regional semis a couple of years ago, but Coach Reed told them to "never, never, never, never give up". Much as I hated it, they didn't die. They had a couple of pretty good baseball players who passed their way back into the game and beat us 59-52. They played inspired football, although they couldn't stop our running game. We wound up stopping ourselves.

BTW, our QB in that game was Austin Boucher - he being the MAC Champion Miami Redhawks' RS freshman sensation who passed them to victory last night. Congrats to Miami and Austin. I thought Miami looked pretty inspired last night - beating the nation's # 24 team for the hardware.

All I'm saying is that Delphos could have beaten every D-6 team in the state that bad. Shadyside had a great year, just like Coldwater has but they may give up 70+ today to.

clovis...figure it out, that is if you can. By the way, how much football have YOU played?

Be Nice;587308 wrote:Sorry, but the pathetic excuses you "privates" use to rationalize the recruitment issue is just that...pathetic. Whine all you want to justify it. Myself and others aren't going anywhere. A few minutes ago during the Urseline vs Coldwater game Greg Frey and the other announcer mentioned how some public school coaches have "voiced" their concern about private school athletes....the "areas" from which they are allowed to come in and play from. Interesting. Yet many of you condone it. Tells a lot about your character. Win at all costs. Hollow victories.

clovis.....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha yes, hollow victory. Like it or not. Glad to make your day.

Of course I condone Catholic schools getting their students from wherever they can find them. There's not a thing wrong with that. Public schools do also, except because EVERY STUDENT AT A PUBLIC SCHOOL GETS A FULL SCHOLARSHIP, paid for partially by parents of private school students, they limit themselves to areas. Why should private schools limit themselves to areas - particularly the exact same areas where their competitors are giving away FULL SCHOLARSHIPS?

Let's say a store, that looks nicer and has way more inventory than Kroger opened up next to a Kroger store, only the new store could force everyone within 5 miles had to pay all expenses, including building costs, to keep the new store running. Do you think it would be fair for Kroger's to go 10 miles away to find customers? How about 20 miles?

Give me a break. You guys want a total monopoly, not to have to compete, and gripe when someone else eats your lunch. I've had enough of it. Cry somewhere else.

...as I said put your "spin" on it and rationalize it any way you want. You're only fooling yourselves.

Be Nice;587320 wrote:^^sorry, but you really do need your own playoff system. Many are tired of the unlevel playing field.

Go cry in your sippy cup. All those public school fields with the nice new turf are quite even for them. My school practices in a mud hole. They have to rent the public school stadium to play games. What we need to level the playing field is a system where all schools have to compete for students, and tax money follows the students to whatever school they go to. Then you would start to see a level playing field.

Crying? LOL LOL LOL LOL I'm just stating the facts. You're the master of excuses, aged wonder. Pal, you live in the past. Every rebuttal of yours is a damn novel with only idiotic justification here, idiotic justificatuion there. Keep fooling yourself. Times have changed. People aren't putting up with the BS anymore. LOL Keep crying. One day it will be OK.

Be Nice;587320 wrote:clovis...figure it out, that is if you can. By the way, how much football have YOU played?

Well if you are trying to say that it is a hollow victory because Hartley is a private school then that is rediculous. I played for Hartley and I know quite alot of the guys on this team. There isn't much difference between the personnel of the 7-3 hartley team from last year that didn't make the playoffs. If anything, in terms of just straight talent, they probably had more with all-state running back Geoffrey Whiteside in addition to Noah Key. The main difference is how these players developed from last year to this year. This is all on great coaching and a great strength/conditioning program. Hartley made a great run through the playoffs, they played their best when they needed to, and they won the state championship. The very fact that they lost to ironton early in the year by 3 TD's and then came back and won against ironton in the playoffs is a direct relationship to strong coaching and mentally tough players. Thats why Hartley won the state title and why they are the best team in DIV in 2010.

skank;587289 wrote:Great post, I will tell you that I have seen some pretty darn good teams here in Massillon, but as I have said before, the "parochial advantage' HAS really derailed our program, I mean to play the Moeller tri state all star team in the '80s, the Ignatius Greater NEO all star teams in the '90s and '00s, then we run into the St X parochial power in the 05 title game. The 91 team was loaded with talent, talent that went on to OSU, BGSU, Kentucky, Toledo, Mich. State, Another to Kentucky, another to BGSU, Mt. Union. western Ky. and we still couldn't beat your all star team that year, maybe you're right.

He is right. Witness the fact that Davidson, Colerain, Upper Arlington, McKinley, Harding, Princeton, and those perennial powers Fairfield and Lima Senior have all accomplished what your once great program has failed miserably to do. It's really little wonder that you're so bitter and whiny...and that you need to take out your frustrations on others.

Be Nice;587331 wrote:Crying? LOL LOL LOL LOL I'm just stating the facts. You're the master of excuses, aged wonder. Pal, you live in the past. Every rebuttal of yours is a damn novel with only idiotic justification here, idiotic justificatuion there. Keep fooling yourself. Times have changed. People aren't putting up with the BS anymore. LOL Keep crying. One day it will be OK.

Explain why you call it "idiotic justification"? You don't explain yourself you just dismiss it without reason. Provide logic and then people might listen to you.

skank;587295 wrote:No, if Shadyside was allowed to "assemble" the talent like so many Parochs, they may have been on the other side of the 71 margin.

Still waiting on a single shred of proof about their opponent "assembling" anything but a great football team. Hearing nothing.

Be Nice;587331 wrote:Crying? LOL LOL LOL LOL I'm just stating the facts. You're the master of excuses, aged wonder. Pal, you live in the past. Every rebuttal of yours is a damn novel with only idiotic justification here, idiotic justificatuion there. Keep fooling yourself. Times have changed. People aren't putting up with the BS anymore. LOL Keep crying. One day it will be OK.

Not that it's related to the topic, but you're the worst debater I've ever seen. Perhaps some remedial English lessons would help you to improve.

fish82;587350 wrote:Not that it's related to the topic, but you're the worst debater I've ever seen. Perhaps some remedial English lessons would help you to improve.

My sentiments exactly.

Hey OHSAA are you watching what Ursaline is doing to Coldwater? No way is it fair for public kids to compete against private and this game is bonafide proof.

etak;587265 wrote:" 'Their' students" - great point, aged jock. Since when does a public school have ownership rights on any individual? Last I checked it was still a free country....for a little while longer anyway.

etak you're confused. 'their' here is like 'their kids,' meaning being part of the same group as, not owning, like 'their car.' Like you might say "my kids" meaning the ones in your family. instead of hunting for jock to make what you perceive as a semantic miscue, try to refute his logic. Oh wait, that won't work.

skank;587201 wrote:Or better yet, maybe Maury Povich could do a show on who the kid belongs to.

skank your brevity is appreciated here but it's a bit hard to tell what you mean to refudiate. I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'm not sure what you mean, really. What do you mean by "belongs to," as that might be the operative portion of your sentence?

queencitybuckeye;587230 wrote:OK, then explain Delphos. 100% of their kids are local. Clearly, you'll need to find a different "unfair advantage" for them. What is it?

buckeye, they go quiet when you prove their rule like that. How 'bout this one, again leaning on the Ironton program I know: Sometime after Coach Lutz left the local Catholic school, St. Joe, and went to Ironton High, the very best Catholic football players, even those whose sibs went to St. Joe and whose parents and grandparents went to St. Joe, starting going to Ironton instead. Because of the footbal programs. St. Joe continued to be better at plenty of other things, but the PROGRAM that Lutz and Ironton have built over the years "keeps" more kids (if you think of those cases where parents both pay the local taxes (for the public school 'all scholarship' situation) and pay tuition at a private school as 'losses' somehow for the tax-funded school) than many others. I'm not sure about every other place, but I'm sure that there are in fact, despite the whiners on here, lots of public schools around the state who have such successful programs that parents and kids think twice about not staying in the public program. I'll go out on a limb and imagine that Steubenville has a few kids from time to time whose less-football-talented siblings might have gone to Steubenville Catholic. When the public school provides the focus and discipline (which sometimes can be hard with unionized teachers and coaches and whiny parents), they can succeed. As the folks who observe the actual mathematics of the situation rather than the emotion have observed, it happens a lot, even if a higher proportion of the privates have superbly motivated and disciplined coaches and teachers and committed parents. I hate to keep siding with the folks on here who knock holes in the 'logic' from skank and company, but it's impossible to watch Ironton go to the playoffs 28 times and feel like it's impossible to build a solid program in the public system.

Tierman...very, very true, but the OHSAA is balless. They've turned a blind eye to this "joke" for years. Truth be known the majority of the board is probably Catholic.

clovis..you now have 7 little posts. That tells me you are new to this site and haven't even come close to reading my other posts or even those of others who feel the same way I do. And yet you say I don't explain myself? Yes, your team won. Good for you. Are they the best team in Ohio at your division? Being handed a trophy DOESN"T make you the best, because your teams not. You won going through the playoff system. If your team was in region 16 it would have been one and done. You were declared state champs, but your team is not the best. Sorry.

fish..you try so hard on this site, but yet the majority of your posts are so idiotic. You, Mr. fish, are clueless. Christmas is right around the corner. Hooked on Phonics is a gift you might want to wish for.

aged jock;587277 wrote:Great program, isn't it?

Look at Graham. Great program, isn't it?

What's your point? If any school sets out to have a great program, it can be done. My point is that a lot of privates, particularly Catholic schools, set out to build great football programs. When I was in high school, I thought Catholic schools started football, because my Catholic school coaches so integrated prayer and belief into the football program.

There it is - I have an answer for you. Maybe public school teams should pray together. That's the real difference between the Catholic teams and the public teams now.

aged, when folks have never been in a system, they have a hard time imagining what it would be like. Then they get intimidated and imagine to themselves that excellence (in football, debate, chess, whatever) is somehow 'beyond them.' So they feel bad. Next, they create a bogeyman to feel better again, like "the Catholics." (I suppose skank's cousins in Utah think it's "the Mormons."). Meanwhile, what the folks in Orrville and Coldwater and Versailles and Steubenville and Ironton and Kenton know is that it's right in front of them, that anybody is in fact capable of discipline and focus and persistence. Get the grade schools and 7th and 8th graders all running the HS offense for 5-10 years and it starts to really take hold. Get the parents all to understand that if a kids goofs off, even if he's from an 'important' family or a top athlete, that he's GONE from the program; take the hit that accrues from dropping those kids for a few years... and a little more takes hold. Make sure kids know starting at 6 that when you score you hand the ball to the ref without a dance or a gesture (act like you've been there before because you and your brothers and uncles have been there). It takes awhile, but it's called a program. And it's not about private or public. It's not about bogeymen. It's just good football.