Be Nice;560670 wrote: And by the way 5 of these individuals that called in played four years of college football.

I can verify that just because you play college football does not mean that you know the rules and mechanics of officiating the game. You might have a better idea than the typical persons in the stands.

Bigdogg;561175 wrote:Maybe you don't have kids playing on the team but you certainty are trying to live your so called glory days all over again.

So having a passion for football is trying to relive your glory days? Ummmm, no.

Sonofanump;561210 wrote:I can verify that just because you play college football does not mean that you know the rules and mechanics of officiating the game. You might have a better idea than the typical persons in the stands.

"After further review....The call on the field stands." No, I'm not a HS football official....But I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Bigdogg;560623 wrote:Holding and block in the back are the most misunderstood rules in football. Most fans have no clue what the philosophy of officiating is.

Not sure what you're trying to say there bud?

rmolin73;561676 wrote:Not sure what you're trying to say there bud?

I'll give a brief overview.

Holding must meet three criteria in order to be a foul. It must meet the definition of a particular restrictive blocking technique (about 8-10 different types of actions). It must restrict the opponent. It must be at the point of attack. If the defender does not attempt to make a play, no foul should be called.

Block in the back must be in the back, not the side, not on the shoulders, in the back within the numbers. If a defender turns just prior to contact, it is not a foul.

Clipping and blocking in the back are not the same thing. Clipping is blocking below the waist in back of the defenders legs.

Ok I gotcha. That was the point I was making there were several times when it was like you have stated a block on the shoulder and our league refs called a block in the back. Where as the officials chosen by OHSAA called a fair game. That's the only point I was trying to make.

All I want from officials is consistancy......If you are going to call a game tight then do it all game ...I prefer you let them play the game a little more freely especially come playoff time....If you are going to let the boys play then ,dont strart calling it tight in the 4th quarter of a close playoff game....
I think for the larg majority Officials do a good job ,they are human ,they will make mistakes .....I dont like it when the power goes to certain guys heads it may seem ,and they just get crazy flag happy .... Come playoff time I only want the best on the field ... I have seen it where officials get pizzed at a head coach and by the end of a game that team has 200 or more yards in penalties... I dont like that crap either because the coach might have gotten out of line but then you really are cheating that team and city because of it ..You have to have alligator skin or your not a good ref...Remember emotions run high on all sides ....If you are an official and you make a bad call be man enough to tell that coach ..But by no circumstances do a make up call ..

Thinthickbigred;562142 wrote:All I want from officials is consistancy......If you are going to call a game tight then do it all game ...I prefer you let them play the game a little more freely especially come playoff time....If you are going to let the boys play then ,dont strart calling it tight in the 4th quarter of a close playoff game....
I think for the larg majority Officials do a good job ,they are human ,they will make mistakes .....I dont like it when the power goes to certain guys heads it may seem ,and they just get crazy flag happy .... Come playoff time I only want the best on the field ... I have seen it where officials get pizzed at a head coach and by the end of a game that team has 200 or more yards in penalties... I dont like that crap either because the coach might have gotten out of line but then you really are cheating that team and city because of it ..You have to have alligator skin or your not a good ref...Remember emotions run high on all sides ....If you are an official and you make a bad call be man enough to tell that coach ..But by no circumstances do a make up call ..

Cheating a city? Lol.

^^^^^^ Yep How is that hard to understand?.........You take one little line out of my entire thoughts and try to start an issue ...Yep I wouldnt want you to ref any of my games ..
Just was saying if a ref has a problem with the coach I have seen him or the crew destroy that team with penalties ..Its not fair in that case to the team or the FANS of that team ...I used the city because ..because that is how serious towns like ours and Massillons are about HS football .... I do understand its just another fall sport for alot of schools .....

Thinthickbigred;562209 wrote:^^^^^^ Yep How is that hard to understand?.........You take one little line out of my entire thoughts and try to start an issue ...Yep I wouldnt want you to ref any of my games ..
Just was saying if a ref has a problem with the coach I have seen him or the crew destroy that team with penalties ..Its not fair in that case to the team or the FANS of that team ...I used the city because ..because that is how serious towns like ours and Massillons are about HS football .... I do understand its just another fall sport for alot of schools .....

Yes, I picked out one line because that line was what made me laugh. The officials do not care about the fans. The officials do not see "cities" on the field, but young men. The "cities" are not being cheated, it's the young men. I will admit all day, every day, to making horrible calls, and those calls possibly affecting these young men, coaches, and school. But not the "city." To me, that is just asinine. But that is also my opinion.

We need to understand a few things about high school football officiating and what fans think.

There are about 360 games being played across the state each week, with 5 officials per game, that is 1800 officials on the field for varsity games each week. These are the guys selected by each conference or assignor to work the games that week. These are the guys who took the time to learn the rules and proper mechanics, purchase the proper equipment, travel to the game site and put up with ignorant comments from fans for $55 for the evening. With travel time and pregame responsibilities this averages about $9-$10 an hour not including monetary expenses that are not reimbursed or time for meetings and study. The elite move up to college and arena, and a few guys from Ohio are currently working in the NFL. So your local high school game consist of guys trying to do their best.

It is a very tough activity to have 22 bodies moving at once and having only 5 guys watching the action. It is not something that is very easy to do. I’d recommend that you try to go out and work a 4th or 5th grade pee-wee game to see if could handle it at that level. Ask a varsity official to review your performance, I’d bet you would have no idea how much you missed even at that level. About 90% of the time, what a person in the stands thinks an official missed or got a call incorrect they are mistaken. About 10% of the time, the official missed the call.

Officials do not care who wins or loses. They only care to get it correct. That is the goal. Accusations of cheating a team is weak. Why would someone put up the BS to go out and deliberately cheat a team? Now that being said, try to have a contest without the officials.

ernest_t_bass;562265 wrote:Yes, I picked out one line because that line was what made me laugh. The officials do not care about the fans. The officials do not see "cities" on the field, but young men. The "cities" are not being cheated, it's the young men. I will admit all day, every day, to making horrible calls, and those calls possibly affecting these young men, coaches, and school. But not the "city." To me, that is just asinine. But that is also my opinion.

How is that line more funny than getting "pizzed at a coach"?

Sonofanump;562382 wrote:How is that line more funny than getting "pizzed at a coach"?

LOL... true statement. While that is funny grammar, the "city" comment was more delusional.

this thread reminds me of a couple COOL stories from my basketball reffing days

1. I was reffing this 7-8 grade game at buckeye trail(girls) during my freshmen year at muskingum to get a little extra beer money and such. Believe me I couldnt care who won the game. Traditionally as a ref i dont like to call fouls because they prolong the game and make me stay longer. I will call a foul if you are taking a good shot i will protect you. As a defender slide your feet not play with your hands....but dont go charging through the lane, take a wild shot and expect me to bail you out. that being said this point gaurd was riding the other point guard up and down the court the whole game. she was hand checking her and not moving her feet. eventually she fouled out with about 4 minutes to go. I literally only called a foul about every third time she fouled the girl. anyway apparently her dad was the ad/principal and her whole family was at the game and they went ballistic. Several people attempted to want to fight me after the game. I basically had to say "im going to count to five and if you dont move away from my car im knocking someone out". So i get back to campus and go to a House Party and guess who was the Host of the Party? the girls older sister whose dad i just threatend to beat up. can you say akward.?

2. I was reffing a jv game on the night that cambridge and meadowbrook were playing probably about 1994 or so. Me and the other guy really wanted to watch this game and i wanted to be there before opening tip. So i basically said he could call a foul if he wanted to but i wasnt unless it was absolutely necessary. The game ended with 1 foul in the first half and two fouls in the second and a lot of the refs making the signal of "all ball" to the coaches lol. anyway not one complaint, probably the smoothest game i ever reffed and we got the the cambridge game with 3 minutes to go in their JV game.

3. I reffed with a guy who now is a DI official and does lots of big games. We were reffing a freshman game at Meadowbrook and he called 36 fouls, I called 2. We literally got chased out of the parking lot because he called every foul "by rulebook definition" as he would tell you. Anyway he is one of the worst refs to ever referee and never played one minute of basketball. I refused to work with him again but now he is one of the big wigs in OHSAA officiating and does lots of OAC/MAC games. If this guy is training ref's good luck with that.

Gblock;562440 wrote:3. I reffed with a guy who now is a DI official and does lots of big games. We were reffing a freshman game at Meadowbrook and he called 36 fouls, I called 2. We literally got chased out of the parking lot because he called every foul "by rulebook definition" as he would tell you. Anyway he is one of the worst refs to ever referee and never played one minute of basketball. I refused to work with him again but now he is one of the big wigs in OHSAA officiating and does lots of OAC/MAC games. If this guy is training ref's good luck with that.

Care to share his name? Or maybe PM me with the name? Just curious

Sonofanump;562379 wrote:We need to understand a few things about high school football officiating and what fans think.

There are about 360 games being played across the state each week, with 5 officials per game, that is 1800 officials on the field for varsity games each week. These are the guys selected by each conference or assignor to work the games that week. These are the guys who took the time to learn the rules and proper mechanics, purchase the proper equipment, travel to the game site and put up with ignorant comments from fans for $55 for the evening. With travel time and pregame responsibilities this averages about $9-$10 an hour not including monetary expenses that are not reimbursed or time for meetings and study. The elite move up to college and arena, and a few guys from Ohio are currently working in the NFL. So your local high school game consist of guys trying to do their best.

It is a very tough activity to have 22 bodies moving at once and having only 5 guys watching the action. It is not something that is very easy to do. I’d recommend that you try to go out and work a 4th or 5th grade pee-wee game to see if could handle it at that level. Ask a varsity official to review your performance, I’d bet you would have no idea how much you missed even at that level. About 90% of the time, what a person in the stands thinks an official missed or got a call incorrect they are mistaken. About 10% of the time, the official missed the call.

Officials do not care who wins or loses. They only care to get it correct. That is the goal. Accusations of cheating a team is weak. Why would someone put up the BS to go out and deliberately cheat a team? Now that being said, try to have a contest without the officials.

Very well said.

ernest_t_bass;562410 wrote:LOL... true statement. While that is funny grammar, the "city" comment was more delusional.

You are a nit picker ... that little line wasnt even a big part in what I was saying ..so you find my wording funny ...Ok big friggin deal .... lets omit the city and just put fans of that team ....I make good points and you ruin everything ..

On the subject matter .. I saw the calls or whatever you want to call them that cheated that team from Dwyer Florida ..Totally dispickable ...I dont like the Florida or southern teams and always root for the Ohio teams .But those guys that made ESPN that gave Glenville the victory need to spend a few nights in jail for such blatent dishonesty... and If they can only see that well ,what the hell were they doing a nationally televised game for ...I mean people that have dementia are usually not allowed to be out in public by themselves let alone reffing football games...

Thinthickbigred;562602 wrote:On the subject matter .. I saw the calls or whatever you want to call them that cheated that team from Dwyer Florida ..Totally dispickable ...I dont like the Florida or southern teams and always root for the Ohio teams .But those guys that made ESPN that gave Glenville the victory need to spend a few nights in jail for such blatent dishonesty... and If they can only see that well ,what the hell were they doing a nationally televised game for ...I mean people that have dementia are usually not allowed to be out in public by themselves let alone reffing football games...

Word is that they all lost working the playoff games because of their mistakes. If you watched the whole game, it was not that bad as a whole. On the TD pass, with a five man crew that one is easy to miss. Give them the benefit of the doubt, especially without the slow motion replay that ESPN had. On the goal line play, they could have used better mechanics to get it right. I am sure the two wing guys wish they had done better and no doubt they will the next time.

Thinthickbigred;562594 wrote:You are a nit picker ... that little line wasnt even a big part in what I was saying ..so you find my wording funny ...Ok big friggin deal .... lets omit the city and just put fans of that team ....I make good points and you ruin everything ..

Not sure how I "ruined" everything. I actually agreed to the rest of your post, if you cared to read my other post.

xnds1fan;562537 wrote:Very well said.

If your making any money on high school varsity games, I want to shake your hand. With a lot of leagues moving to a 7 PM kickoff I have to leave work early because you have to be at the field hour and half early. With this, travel time, and eating dinner after the game I lose money. I don't know of any officials working the playoffs who don't work like crazy to get that far.

Thinthickbigred;562602 wrote:On the subject matter .. I saw the calls or whatever you want to call them that cheated that team from Dwyer Florida ..Totally dispickable ...I dont like the Florida or southern teams and always root for the Ohio teams .But those guys that made ESPN that gave Glenville the victory need to spend a few nights in jail for such blatent dishonesty... and If they can only see that well ,what the hell were they doing a nationally televised game for ...I mean people that have dementia are usually not allowed to be out in public by themselves let alone reffing football games...

LOL... Dementia.

I actually got called down to a meeting with Head of OHSAA Clair Muscaro Jr.(sp?) in 2005 while I was the head Baseball Coach at Eastmoor Academy for a dispute with umpires. We were playing a game a saturday game at mifflin and the temp was about 37-40 degrees. This was an early season game going into league play and i was without two of my best players. I was treating it more like a scrimmage and really could care less who won the game. It was more of a day to let other guys play and try to find some guys who may be able to contribute this season. the guy behind the plate was about 18 years old and had a strike zone about the size of a dixie cup. To be fair he did call it the same both ways...every pitch is a ball. after 3 hours we are in the bottom of the 4th the score is 21-16 them. both teams combined probly only have 8-10 hits. its mostly just walk the bases around. both coaches have asked the guy to call more strikes as everyone is freezing...

the guy in the field is like 80 years old but really hasnt had to make to many calls all day. he did blow a call early in the game where with 1 out and the bases loaded they hit a fly ball to right field and no one tags up and two runs score but whatever....... we are up with guys on first and second. my overall best player is on first. a ball is hit to the second baseman and it goes thru his legs....he thinks he caught it and he motions like he is throwing to second and the second baseman literally does the same like motioning he caught the ball cause he thought the ball was coming I guess. however the ball is in right field. The ump calls the guy out at second. and at first!

it was kinda funny but i really didnt care i just wanted to go home. However my player who is standing on second refuses to leave the base. he is very committed to staying there because as we all know the ball was in right field. finally i just tell him its not worth it and come on. when we get to the dugout he throws his helmet and says "bullisth" at this point the ump behind the plate ejects him!

Now the parents erupt and all heck breaks loose with everyone arguing and coming on the field. I am like i cant have this guy get ejected because he has to pitch our first league game on monday against briggs. So i get to a conference with both umps and the opposing coach and I suggest we just end the game. we all agree.....WE SHAKE HANDS WITH THE OTHER TEAM AND GO HOME.

Two weeks later i get a letter and get called to the OHSAA. I guess one of the umps goes to church with the Muscaro and told him we left the game without finishing and forfieted. I was facing a lifetime ban from coaching in OHIO. Luckily by the time i got to the meeting the OHSAA had met with the other coach and he said that we shook hands and congratulated them on winning. He also said it was a dangerous situation out there and he agreed it was a good idea to stop the game, but that wasnt what got me out of trouble. It was the fact that we shook hands.

so just a warning to coaches don't let yourself get in that situation where you dont finish a game cause of Officials.

Thinthickbigred;562602 wrote: need to spend a few nights in jail for such blatent dishonesty.

As should you for the post on this board.

On the it's only holding at the point of attack,I don't believe this to be true, I've seen more backside holding called and more holding called 20 yards behind the play this season than I've ever seen called. I think the officiating at the High School level is pretty much as it's always been (not very good and not very consistant) but I've seen very few games where the questionable calls were not about even for both teams playing.