With the possibility of Stoops perhaps going to ND from Oklahoma and Brian Kelly being such a hot comodity, I have really started to question what constitutes a universty being a destination and not just a stepping stone.

Oklahoma was always a destination in my eyes, and yeah it's Notre Dame but it's not your dads ND. UC has always been a stepping stone and probably still is.

What's the difference these days?

There is no difference. It's all about the cash. When Oklahoma, ND or another program with a great recruiting pipeline, great tradition, and great fans shows Brian Kelly the cash, he'll bolt.

Joker Phillips (Kentucky OC)
Mark Dantonio (Michigan State HC)
Mike Tomlin (Pittsburgh Steelers HC)
John Harbaugh (Baltimore Ravens HC)

Are all guys that started off in Cincy before getting better offers either in the NFL, or with bigger conference schools.

Brian Kelly is next.

I'm not sure that Oklahoma qualifies; but absolutely in football, as in college basketball, the "mid-majors"...the Bowling Greens, the Toledos, the Cincinnatis have been, and will continue to be, a pitstop along the way if you are a hot coach on the rise with some success. And if that stepping stone comes with "W"s attached, the smaller DI schools will not complain.

There's no doubt Brian Kelly is next. He will leave, its just a matter of when.

I think when you think of a destination job its a top 25 program in a BCS conference where you have great facilities and great recruiting resources at your advantage. Now, let me say this: Cincy HAS the ability to become one of these destinations in the Big East, but until now has been used as a stepping stone.

I don't think UC can be a destination with Nippert only holding 35K. I know it's an old stadium with lots of heritage but 35K isn't enough to really boost the recruiting pipeline.

They're currently doing a feasibility study about expanding it, and they're building new practice facilities/offices, or at least breaking ground on them I belive

darbypitcher22 wrote: They're currently doing a feasibility study about expanding it, and they're building new practice facilities/offices, or at least breaking ground on them I belive

Even if you expand it, it's not going to get to more than 55-60k.

True but that's plenty big enough, actually would be about on par with the rest of the schools in the Big East since 2 of them play in pro facilities

darbypitcher22 wrote: True but that's plenty big enough, actually would be about on par with the rest of the schools in the Big East since 2 of them play in pro facilities

But it's still the Big East. I know the Big Ten isn't anything special right now, but at least we can try to make the excuse that we are in a rut. What can the Big East say? "Since we lost Miami and Va Tech we've been nothing?".

Well they had Louisville beat Wake and end a 1 loss season with an Orange Bowl title and had West Virginia a loss to 4-7 Pitt away from playing for the National Championship.... not as great as ACTUALLY getting to the game but stilll... Bill Stewart did drop the hammer on Bob Stoops 2 years ago

darbypitcher22 wrote: Well they had Louisville beat Wake and end a 1 loss season with an Orange Bowl title and had West Virginia a loss to 4-7 Pitt away from playing for the National Championship.... not as great as ACTUALLY getting to the game but stilll... Bill Stewart did drop the hammer on Bob Stoops 2 years ago

It's all about consistency in College Football, however.

The Big East has had 7 different teams at least be co-champions of the conference since Va Tech and Miami left in 2004.

Actually, the entire Big East sans WVU? I would consider a stepping stone.

I'm sure most people would now since Miami, Va Tech and BC bolted...

ytownfootball wrote: Actually, the entire Big East sans WVU? I would consider a stepping stone.

Well, even WVU's homestate boy bolted on them, so I'd say the whole conference is a stepping stone. Interestingly, Schiano was a hot name for a year or two and stayed at Rutgers - he may never have the open doors he had at his peak again. The other program that is a little different is South Florida, since Leavitt pretty much IS that program.

I was trying to be diplomatic and leave one in there but actually agree with that.

I think Bill Stewart will find a way to build WVU back up... at least I hope he does, that guy is a class act and a good football coach. Wandstedt got Pitt back (JUST in the nick of time, that seat was getting hot) and Kelly has Cincy going, but you wonder what happens when he bolts

DaBrowns41 wrote:

darbypitcher22 wrote: Well they had Louisville beat Wake and end a 1 loss season with an Orange Bowl title and had West Virginia a loss to 4-7 Pitt away from playing for the National Championship.... not as great as ACTUALLY getting to the game but stilll... Bill Stewart did drop the hammer on Bob Stoops 2 years ago

It's all about consistency in College Football, however.

The Big East has had 7 different teams at least be co-champions of the conference since Va Tech and Miami left in 2004.

I don't think it really matters who wins the conference. The Big East has won three BCS bowls since the departure of those three teams. Extremely likely they will win another one this year.

Winning BCS bowls 3 out of the last 4 years is acceptable to most except those who maintain the false perception that the Big East isn't a real conference.

Also, what has Miami, VT, and BC really done in the ACC?

enigmaax wrote:
Well, even WVU's homestate boy bolted on them, so I'd say the whole conference is a stepping stone. Interestingly, Schiano was a hot name for a year or two and stayed at Rutgers - he may never have the open doors he had at his peak again. The other program that is a little different is South Florida, since Leavitt pretty much IS that program.

Dick Rod didn't want to leave WVU. He was trying to play the administration for more money like he did the year before with Alabama but it backfired when the AD laughed in his face.

darby - I feel like we've had some good back and forth this evening, it just doesn't seem like we agree on much. I don't think Stewart is a good coach, AT ALL, and I'm not even sure he's a class act. He's an old guy who reminds people of his grandpa and he maximized that "home" feeling when he got to be good cop to RR's bad cop.

Wannstedt finally won MOST games that he should have this season (NC State is NOT good) and is about to lose the two most important games he plays. The difference this season is that he didn't lose three more games that he shouldn't have. I don't know what they are "back" to, since they aren't nearly as good as the late 70s-early 80s teams and there really isn't much to compare them to outside of that.

Kudos to WVU's AD for calling DickRod's bluff.

I like Stewart, he seems like a good genuine guy. As far as the coaching goes, when the previoius head coach lifts his whole entire staff and uproots it to another place it leaves you scrambling to try and put something together. He won that Fiesta Bowl basically with himself and a staff full of GA's if I remember right.

Still trying to figure out how Pitt lost to NC State, and yeah, you're right, they're not really "back" to anything, but they're having the best year they've had in a long while.

eersandbeers wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote:

darbypitcher22 wrote: Well they had Louisville beat Wake and end a 1 loss season with an Orange Bowl title and had West Virginia a loss to 4-7 Pitt away from playing for the National Championship.... not as great as ACTUALLY getting to the game but stilll... Bill Stewart did drop the hammer on Bob Stoops 2 years ago

It's all about consistency in College Football, however.

The Big East has had 7 different teams at least be co-champions of the conference since Va Tech and Miami left in 2004.

I don't think it really matters who wins the conference. The Big East has won two BCS bowls since the departure of those three teams. Extremely likely they will win another one this year.

Winning BCS bowls 3 out of the last 5 years is acceptable to most except those who maintain the false perception that the Big East isn't a real conference.

Also, what has Miami, VT, and BC really done in the ACC?

In a way, you sort of proved my point with that last question.

Perhaps Miami, Va Tech and BC won so many games because they were in the Big East.

I won't argue about the BCS wins, as it is a good way to rate a conference, but I still can't agree that the Big East isn't the weakest conference of the BCS conferences.

enigmaax wrote: darby - I feel like we've had some good back and forth this evening, it just doesn't seem like we agree on much. I don't think Stewart is a good coach, AT ALL, and I'm not even sure he's a class act. He's an old guy who reminds people of his grandpa and he maximized that "home" feeling when he got to be good cop to RR's bad cop.

I agree. Bill Stewart is a coach I would wish on no team. He is a class act, but the man is the most clueless head coach I've ever seen on the sidelines.

He is a great recruiter because the parents love him, but if our assistants suck (and most of the them) then this team is nothing.

darbypitcher22 wrote: Kudos to WVU's AD for calling DickRod's bluff

It was just part of Dick Rod's ego. Who goes and asks for more money after blowing a trip to the national championship?

DaBrowns41 wrote:
I won't argue about the BCS wins, as it is a good way to rate a conference, but I still can't agree that the Big East isn't the weakest conference of the BCS conferences.

On a yearly basis the BE is ranked 3rd or 4th best conference. They win most of their bowl games and most of their OOC games (granted not against great competition all the time). I don't know how else you want to judge a conference.

There is a big anti-Big East bias in the media, and it just doesn't hold true to reality.

eersandbeers wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote:
I won't argue about the BCS wins, as it is a good way to rate a conference, but I still can't agree that the Big East isn't the weakest conference of the BCS conferences.

On a yearly basis the BE is ranked 3rd or 4th best conference. They win most of their bowl games and most of their OOC games (granted not against great competition all the time). I don't know how else you want to judge a conference.

There is a big anti-Big East bias in the media, and it just doesn't hold true to reality.

The fact that their OOC schedules are VERY weak is a big reason why they are a weak conference. I mean Rutgers played 2 FCS schools, and another school 2-3 years removed from the FCS this season... I mean, come on now. Lol.

But the BCS wins are impressive. I just don't see them keeping it up.

I think both Pitt or Cincy would lose this season, easily.

The WVU win was impressive; I'm not so sure how great Wake actually was that year Louisville beat them

DaBrowns41 wrote:

eersandbeers wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote:
I won't argue about the BCS wins, as it is a good way to rate a conference, but I still can't agree that the Big East isn't the weakest conference of the BCS conferences.

On a yearly basis the BE is ranked 3rd or 4th best conference. They win most of their bowl games and most of their OOC games (granted not against great competition all the time). I don't know how else you want to judge a conference.

There is a big anti-Big East bias in the media, and it just doesn't hold true to reality.

The fact that their OOC schedules are VERY weak is a big reason why they are a weak conference. I mean Rutgers played 2 FCS schools, and another school 2-3 years removed from the FCS this season... I mean, come on now. Lol.

But the BCS wins are impressive. I just don't see them keeping it up.

I think both Pitt or Cincy would lose this season, easily.

The Big East has to schedule more crap teams because their are only 8 teams in the conference. It is hard to fill those extra holes in the schedule with decent competition.

We'll find out if UC will lose this season. I doubt they'll be going up against a mid-major in their bowl game.