Gblock;518295 wrote:and my point was not what type of school they pay attention to but rather basing their judgements on old outdated information....thats like basing my opinion about cellphones off of my first cellphone...not a great comparison

So my nephews and nieces attending school now isn't a great comparison? It is still a lousy school. And again I am 100% sure they don't offer calculus, and 99% sure they don't offer AP courses in any subject. I'm not attacking your school (assuming you are a teacher), but in many districts public schools are a disaster. Hell, in our school district neighborhood I'm guessing the average property tax is about $7,000/year, and after the 3rd grade no one that has any money whatsoever sends their kids to public school. Intead of attacking people that have divorced themselves from the schools, perhaps we should address the problems. And one problem IMO is that we don't differentiate in teacher compensation. It is just another public union bureacracy.

Manhattan Buckeye;518302 wrote:So my nephews and nieces attending school now isn't a great comparison? It is still a lousy school. And again I am 100% sure they don't offer calculus, and 99% sure they don't offer AP courses in any subject. I'm not attacking your school (assuming you are a teacher), but in many districts public schools are a disaster. Hell, in our school district neighborhood I'm guessing the average property tax is about $7,000/year, and after the 3rd grade no one that has any money whatsoever sends their kids to public school. Intead of attacking people that have divorced themselves from the schools, perhaps we should address the problems. And one problem IMO is that we don't differentiate in teacher compensation. It is just another public union bureacracy.

where is this located? I wonder why they dont offer it?? that would seem to make it tough to do well on act/sat to get in to college. or even to have a good transcript to get into college.

also my comments werent necessarily directed towards you ...im just saying that people should spend some time in a school and see the difference....i bet many would be surprised at how much things have changed....

thedynasty1998;518299 wrote:What is wrong with that organization? Why exactly do you not consider them credible?

why should i? i never heard of it? who is on their committee?? what criteria did they use? there are many different ways to analyze data and skew information as watching any political ad can provide a good example of that. that being said i agree that we are not number one or even number two, maybe not even top 10, but i also think we dont try to be number one, parents dont want to give up summer time and resist a longer school day for one and also we educate all of our children, not just the ones who show high ability at an early age. some of these countries run their schools like bootcamps and require all students to serve two years in the military, while this might create a nice test score, im not sure its a better system. also u have to look at the populations of places like india and china

Gblock;518322 wrote:why should i? i never heard of it? who is on their committee?? what criteria did they use? there are many different ways to analyze data and skew information as watching any political ad can provide a good example of that. that being said i agree that we are not number one or even number two, maybe not even top 10, but i also think we dont try to be number one, parents dont want to give up summer time and resist a longer school day for one and also we educate all of our children, not just the ones who show high ability at an early age. some of these countries run their schools like bootcamps and require all students to serve two years in the military, while this might create a nice test score, im not sure its a better system. also u have to look at the populations of places like india and china

Someone asked for a link, and I provided it. If you have questions about the validity, do your own research before you "lol" at a study.

"where is this located? "

SE Ohio, I'm guessing most of the rural districts in Meigs, Washington, Gallia, Ross, Jackson counties etc. don't offer advanced classes. Now certainly the larger schools (those in the SEOAL) like Jackson HS, Gallia Academy, Chilly, etc. do, but the Waterfords's, Racine Southern's and South Gallia's don't.

ernest_t_bass;518202 wrote:To create a well-rounded student.

I agree with this. If our only goal is to score better on a test than other countries we should adjust our curriculum. We can send everyone to math and science school and not worry about the other subjects. (I've probably never used anything I learned in history or art anyway)

I do think our way of funding public schools is completely out of whack. I also believe that parental participation and attitude has a lot more influence on education than anything any teacher can do.

thedynasty1998;518330 wrote:Someone asked for a link, and I provided it. If you have questions about the validity, do your own research before you "lol" at a study.

i already have that s how i know its bs...that organization certainly isnt from america, so there is no reason to think that they would have any reason to rank us very high..

www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-oecd.htm

Here is a hypothetical:

Dynasty can take a test 5 times. His best score is 99%.
GBlock can take the test once. His score is 88%.

A person from Dynasty's country will publish a report saying that Dynastasia's is so much better than Gblockingston. See, we scored 99% to their 88%.

To that scenario, all the general public sees (and cares about) is the 99% and the 88% on which you reported. You can make numbers say whatever you want them to.

Gblock;518338 wrote:i already have that s how i know its bs...that organization certainly isnt from america, so there is no reason to think that they would have any reason to rank us very high..

www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-oecd.htm

So if the institution were from America it would be more credible?

thedynasty1998;518345 wrote:So if the institution were from America it would be more credible?

potentially...but more important i would want to know what exactly you are comparing to make these determinations. test scores?, is it number of students who earn advanced degrees?? is it amount of money earned by graduates??? the number of doctors and scientists produced??....i tried to find the article you quoted but didnt see it. it actually doesnt really have any statistics just some type of inflammatory quotes from college proffessor types. the one fact it states is where we where ranked by some organization i hadnt heard of is all i was saying. but like i said i agree we arent number one but also other countries are much more strict with students and parents and also remove students from school altogether who cause problems.

im out for today see you kids tomorow

Gblock;518278 wrote:i bet most on here couldnt pass the middle school ohio achievement test let alone the OGT.

Seriously?

I haven't opened a math book for about a decade, but I am willing to bet any amount of money that I can pass the middle school Ohio achievement test first try with no studying. I'll make the same bet for the OGT.

Heck, after looking through some Praxis sample questions on line, if those are representative of the test itself, I can pass that with no prep. You're vastly overestimating how difficult these exams are.

fan_from_texas;518354 wrote:Seriously?

I haven't opened a math book for about a decade, but I am willing to bet any amount of money that I can pass the middle school Ohio achievement test first try with no studying. I'll make the same bet for the OGT.

Heck, after looking through some Praxis sample questions on line, if those are representative of the test itself, I can pass that with no prep. You're vastly overestimating how difficult these exams are.

Agreed, roomate in college passed the praxis first time in 97th percentile with no studying.

fan_from_texas;518354 wrote:Seriously?

I haven't opened a math book for about a decade, but I am willing to bet any amount of money that I can pass the middle school Ohio achievement test first try with no studying. I'll make the same bet for the OGT.

Heck, after looking through some Praxis sample questions on line, if those are representative of the test itself, I can pass that with no prep. You're vastly overestimating how difficult these exams are.

He said most, not all.

fan_from_texas;518354 wrote:Seriously?

I haven't opened a math book for about a decade, but I am willing to bet any amount of money that I can pass the middle school Ohio achievement test first try with no studying. I'll make the same bet for the OGT.

Heck, after looking through some Praxis sample questions on line, if those are representative of the test itself, I can pass that with no prep. You're vastly overestimating how difficult these exams are.

arent you a lawyer?? of course you could i didnt say no one on here could pass i just think a lot wouldnt. i say that because i was at a luncheon once and the speaker topic was opposing state wide testing on the basis the test was too hard and biased...he passed out he test and most didnt pass...however in ohio you only have to get half the questoins right to pass so you probably would pass but i can say with a certainty they are harder than you think...if i have time tomorrow ill post examples of some of the harder questions...

FatHobbit;518365 wrote:He said most, not all.

Fair enough. And perhaps the Praxis questions I saw online aren't representative (e.g., pick the noun out of the sentence). I guess we're getting off-topic here, though. I understand that crafting a good merit-based pay system requires some work and inevitably may have some subjective judgment calls that could go either way, but I'm not sure why that is a basis for ignoring merit-based pay entirely.

alot of the questions have graphics so its hard to post them you can print your own here:

www.ode.oh.us click on oaa/ogt practice test links....

here is a question that was mostly words...


question from 2005 test we used last year for practice that our students really struggled with in 8th grade:

A wooden fence was built around a construction site. The wall is 600 feet long and 8 feet high. Each 12 foot length of the fence has a 2 foot by 2 foot window cut into the wall so that people can watch the construction.

The city council asked the construction company to paint the side of the fence facing the street. A gallon of paint will cover approximately 250 square feet.

in your answer doc....determine how many gallons of paint are needed to paint one side of the fence....

fan_from_texas;518354 wrote:Seriously?

I haven't opened a math book for about a decade, but I am willing to bet any amount of money that I can pass the middle school Ohio achievement test first try with no studying. I'll make the same bet for the OGT.

Heck, after looking through some Praxis sample questions on line, if those are representative of the test itself, I can pass that with no prep. You're vastly overestimating how difficult these exams are.

I would bet money that 80+% of members could pass the OGT first try no studying.

They were ridiculously easy.

Gblock;518391 wrote:alot of the questions have graphics so its hard to post them you can print your own here:

www.ode.oh.us click on oaa/ogt practice test links....

here is a question that was mostly words...


question from 2005 test we used last year for practice that our students really struggled with in 8th grade:

A wooden fence was built around a construction site. The wall is 600 feet long and 8 feet high. Each 12 foot length of the fence has a 2 foot by 2 foot window cut into the wall so that people can watch the construction.

The city council asked the construction company to paint the side of the fence facing the street. A gallon of paint will cover approximately 250 square feet.

in your answer doc....determine how many gallons of paint are needed to paint one side of the fence....

This is simple algebra. You first figure out the total square footage, then subtract out the windows, then divide it by 250 to determine the number of gallons. I would really hope that most middle schoolers could do this.

fan_from_texas;518427 wrote:This is simple algebra. You first figure out the total square footage, then subtract out the windows, then divide it by 250 to determine the number of gallons. I would really hope that most middle schoolers could do this.

and the answer is?

"question from 2005 test we used last year for practice that our students really struggled with in 8th grade:

A wooden fence was built around a construction site. The wall is 600 feet long and 8 feet high. Each 12 foot length of the fence has a 2 foot by 2 foot window cut into the wall so that people can watch the construction.

The city council asked the construction company to paint the side of the fence facing the street. A gallon of paint will cover approximately 250 square feet.

in your answer doc....determine how many gallons of paint are needed to paint one side of the fence.... "

There is nothing more to this question than basic multiplication, division, additions and subtrations. 8th graders should be able to do this, and IMO 6th graders should be able to as well. There is no algebra, advanced math or anything else involved. There is language comprehension, which I suppose transcends subjects. But this is nothing more than basic math.

19 gallons, I hope?

600 X 8 = 4800 sq ft
600/12 = 50 X (2X2) = 200
4800-200 = 4600 sq ft
4600/250 = 19 gallons

I would assume it was multiple choice, BTW.

Gblock;518431 wrote:and the answer is?

The answer is there is no answer, since you didn't explain the size of the fence facing the street. Is it a square? A rectangle? An oval or circular fence?

Subject to MB's disclaimer above about some unnatural fence, the answer is 19 gallons, but you should talk to the paint salesman and see if you can get a discount for buying 20 (bulk discount?). I didn't post the answer because I assumed you wanted others to be able to solve it as well. This is really simple math. If someone can't do this, they have no business graduating.

fan_from_texas;518469 wrote:If someone can't do this, they have no business graduating.

LOL. Oh, Mr. Simpleton. Come to a school and you will see how the state allows these people to pass. Numbers my friend, numbers. You don't raise the bar... you lower the standards!