She's hooking up with the students.....

ernest_t_bass;560731 wrote:And that's not sad? Such a simple way to look at it.

If reality is simple, then yes I'm simple.

What's your suggestion to make it more complex?

If you are an associate at a law firm, and business sucks (as it has for closing on 3 years) and HR tells you that everyone is taking a 10% pay cut, what would be your reaction?

It is take it or leave it. It happened to me twice, and I left both times because I had other opportunities. If I tried to "fight the system" they'd tell me to pound sand.

This is reality in the private sector. The term "rat race" was borne for a reason.

Gblock;560712 wrote:while i agree in general with your point...to say everyone is not true...do you only know ten people? and a 10% pay cut of probably a large or inflated salary to begin with doesnt make me want to take a pay cut

i have friends who are lawyers and and accountants and their salaries are climbing as well as my friends who are in banking industries and insurance...i also have friends who were car salesmen and other types of sales and friends who simply had their position eliminated. However i dont think that makes me feel like i should take a pay cut or feel bad. all jobs have advantages and disadvantages. I knew when i took my job i would never have very much money and would never be rich. I also factored in the fact that i knew if i did my job well it would provide very stable employment. i dont apologize for it and dont feel bad. no one was worried about me when i was making 25000 dollars and my friend was making 93000 doing mortgage refi for chase bank and he didnt even graduate high school. so now the economy is bad and he no longer works for them i should have to take a pay cut?

Very good post, IMO.

Manhattan Buckeye;560720 wrote:My father has this thing called a "pension" that is unthinkabble for people working in the private sector. We pay into this thing called social security, which is a ponzi scheme....not to take this to the political forum.

Perks of the job, my friend. I will have put in 8 years of schooling for this job, and that is a definite perk!

Gblock;560712 wrote:while i agree in general with your point...to say everyone is not true...do you only know ten people? and a 10% pay cut of probably a large or inflated salary to begin with doesnt make me want to take a pay cut

i have friends who are lawyers and and accountants and their salaries are climbing as well as my friends who are in banking industries and insurance...i also have friends who were car salesmen and other types of sales and friends who simply had their position eliminated. However i dont think that makes me feel like i should take a pay cut or feel bad. all jobs have advantages and disadvantages. I knew when i took my job i would never have very much money and would never be rich. I also factored in the fact that i knew if i did my job well it would provide very stable employment. i dont apologize for it and dont feel bad. no one was worried about me when i was making 25000 dollars and my friend was making 93000 doing mortgage refi for chase bank and he didnt even graduate high school. so now the economy is bad and he no longer works for them i should have to take a pay cut?

ernest_t_bass;560753 wrote:Very good post, IMO.

ernest_t_bass;560761 wrote:Perks of the job, my friend. I will have put in 8 years of schooling for this job, and that is a definite perk!

It goes back to this: If you are so jealous of the perks and the security, go get a teaching job.

redfalcon;560765 wrote:It goes back to this: If you are so jealous of the perks and the security, go get a teaching job.

This thread wasn't about jealousy. It was about whether teachers were overpaid or underpaid.

People, namely Scarlett Buckeye, Dynasty, FFT and myself are explaining how the private sector works, if you want to learn more about it read the posts and ask questions. Jealousy doesn't enter into the picture.

redfalcon;560765 wrote:It goes back to this: If you are so jealous of the perks and the security, go get a teaching job.

That's where I think teachers irritate the pubic. It's not necessarily jealousy, but moreso just having an opinion since it is private sector. I don't give a shit what the CEO of BOA makes, because it's none of my business (ignoring stakeholders). However, in the public sector, when the schools district are asking for more money, everyone has an opinion and when others are losing their jobs and having their hours cut and can't find jobs, it irritates people to hear teachers complain about not being paid for tutoring of students.

Paid too much... Cops don't even make half as much as some of those!!

thedynasty1998;560772 wrote:That's where I think teachers irritate the pubic. It's not necessarily jealousy, but moreso just having an opinion since it is private sector. I don't give a shit what the CEO of BOA makes, because it's none of my business (ignoring stakeholders). However, in the public sector, when the schools district are asking for more money, everyone has an opinion and when others are losing their jobs and having their hours cut and can't find jobs, it irritates people to hear teachers complain about not being paid for tutoring of students.

I believe they are talking about "extra tutoring outside the school day".....most teachers have to go pick up their kids after school or other family responsibilites or class or coaching or a second job or whatever they want to do. they shouldnt have to feel bad about not staying after school with no compensation. if you want to tutor after school with or without compensation that is a personal decision. i would say 80-90% dont do tutoring after school. its really not part of the job description

Manhattan Buckeye;560771 wrote:This thread wasn't about jealousy. It was about whether teachers were overpaid or underpaid.

People, namely Scarlett Buckeye, Dynasty, FFT and myself are explaining how the private sector works, if you want to learn more about it read the posts and ask questions. Jealousy doesn't enter into the picture.

thedynasty1998;560772 wrote:That's where I think teachers irritate the pubic. It's not necessarily jealousy, but moreso just having an opinion since it is private sector. I don't give a shit what the CEO of BOA makes, because it's none of my business (ignoring stakeholders). However, in the public sector, when the schools district are asking for more money, everyone has an opinion and when others are losing their jobs and having their hours cut and can't find jobs, it irritates people to hear teachers complain about not being paid for tutoring of students.

This is fair. Certainly some people from the first part of this thread have been bitching up a storm, but the way you have both said it here makes sense. I apologize. That being said, I suppose a better way to say this would be that while I make what I consider to be a fair salary, some teachers are without a doubt underpaid (and I am sure more than a few are also overpaid).

Go_Fast_Sports;560778 wrote:Paid too much... Cops don't even make half as much as some of those!!

Police are not required by their employer or thier licensing agency to have the amount of schooling and the advanced degrees that teachers do.

I agree partially with your post, I think on average most teachers are paid fairly. But I think there is an equal number of teachers who are paid excessively/below a fair wage.

The thing with the private sector, is people advance based upon performance, further education, taking on more responsibilities, etc... However, teachers are paid more just for longevity, which I think is a huge problem.

As for a teacher not tutoring students because they have other obligations, that's fine. I don't expect them all to stay. But when a student needs your help, they should make themselves available. And you certainly don't state in a newspaper that your frustrations are with not being paid for things like tutoring, therefore, you are going to refuse to make yourselves available.

redfalcon;560784 wrote:This is fair. Certainly some people from the first part of this thread have been bitching up a storm, but the way you have both said it here makes sense. I apologize. That being said, I suppose a better way to say this would be that while I make what I consider to be a fair salary, some teachers are without a doubt underpaid (and I am sure more than a few are also overpaid).

Which is true of all industries, is it not?

wkfan;560788 wrote:Police are not required by their employer or thier licensing agency to have the amount of schooling and the advanced degrees that teachers do.

Police officers are for a different discussion. What do people value more, safety or education? What is the cost of putting your life on the line?

thedynasty1998;560791 wrote:I agree partially with your post, I think on average most teachers are paid fairly. But I think there is an equal number of teachers who are paid excessively/below a fair wage.

The thing with the private sector, is people advance based upon performance, further education, taking on more responsibilities, etc... However, teachers are paid more just for longevity, which I think is a huge problem.

As for a teacher not tutoring students because they have other obligations, that's fine. I don't expect them all to stay. But when a student needs your help, they should make themselves available. And you certainly don't state in a newspaper that your frustrations are with not being paid for things like tutoring, therefore, you are going to refuse to make yourselves available.

I think there is quite a difference between tutoring and helping a struggling student. I doubt you'll find too many teachers that won't help a struggling student.

WebFire;560795 wrote:I think there is quite a difference between tutoring and helping a struggling student. I doubt you'll find too many teachers that won't help a struggling student.

Can you expand on the differences for me?

WebFire;560795 wrote:I think there is quite a difference between tutoring and helping a struggling student. I doubt you'll find too many teachers that won't help a struggling student.

Good point. I think there is a line between tutoring and helping a struggling student and my problem is moreso with the struggling student. However, I would assume that in the language the union was talking about in the article, there is not a difference.

I concur, this is NOT about jealousy. This is about the sense of entitlement that teachers perpetuate. The rest of society is out there taking severe pay cuts and suffering severe benefit losses and teachers are STILL unwilling to do the same at taxpayer's expense. FURTHER, when the school levies fail, it is the student's that further suffer by having sports cut, bus services cut, extracurricular activities, cut, book budgets cut, etc., etc. Teachers having pay freezes, pay cuts, benefits lost are virtually unheard of.

Here is a prime example to my point, I was at the dentist recently and I was asking how business was. They said "their" particular office was doing well.......why?......because they are one of the professional dental providers on our community's teacher's union's dental contract. Obviously, they are "in the know" with their fellow dentists offices and they said their fellow dentists are all hurting BIG TIME, because so many private sector businsses have slashed all dental insurance for its employees. Further, I have a very good friend show is a dental hygenist who has validated this as well. The dentist who she has worked for for over 20 years has slashed her full time hours of 5 days a week to 3 days a week because of loss of business because so many people no longer have dental insurance and they are no longer regularly going to the dentist. This is reality to all you teachers who feel entitled to MORE.

Scarlet_Buckeye;560805 wrote:I concur, this is NOT about jealousy. This is about the sense of entitlement that teachers perpetuate. The rest of society is out there taking severe pay cuts and suffering severe benefit losses and teachers are STILL unwilling to do the same at taxpayer's expense. FURTHER, when the school levies fail, it is the student's that further suffer by having sports cut, bus services cut, extracurricular activities, cut, book budgets cut, etc., etc. Teachers having pay freezes, pay cuts, benefits lost are virtually unheard of.

Here is a prime example to my point, I was at the dentist recently and I was asking how business was. They said "their" particular office was doing well.......why?......because they are one of the professional dental providers on our community's teacher's union's dental contract. Obviously, they are "in the know" with their fellow dentists offices and they said their fellow dentists are all hurting BIG TIME, because so many private sector businsses have slashed all dental insurance for its employees. Further, I have a very good friend show is a dental hygenist who has validated this as well. The dentist who she has worked for for over 20 years has slashed her full time hours of 5 days a week to 3 days a week because of loss of business because so many people no longer have dental insurance and they are no longer regularly going to the dentist. This is reality to all you teachers who feel entitled to MORE.

Lol i didnt know we had it so good wow teachers against the world(we pay the same taxes)...anyway maybe you should be mad at the way schools are funded which has been ruled several times as inappropriate, yet it has yet to be fixed.

Eastlake 2010 Police Salaries.

http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/local-salary

Eastlake Fire Dept.

http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/local-salary

Scarlet_Buckeye;560805 wrote:I concur, this is NOT about jealousy. This is about the sense of entitlement that teachers perpetuate. The rest of society is out there taking severe pay cuts and suffering severe benefit losses and teachers are STILL unwilling to do the same at taxpayer's expense. FURTHER, when the school levies fail, it is the student's that further suffer by having sports cut, bus services cut, extracurricular activities, cut, book budgets cut, etc., etc. Teachers having pay freezes, pay cuts, benefits lost are virtually unheard of.

Here is a prime example to my point, I was at the dentist recently and I was asking how business was. They said "their" particular office was doing well.......why?......because they are one of the professional dental providers on our community's teacher's union's dental contract. Obviously, they are "in the know" with their fellow dentists offices and they said their fellow dentists are all hurting BIG TIME, because so many private sector businsses have slashed all dental insurance for its employees. Further, I have a very good friend show is a dental hygenist who has validated this as well. The dentist who she has worked for for over 20 years has slashed her full time hours of 5 days a week to 3 days a week because of loss of business because so many people no longer have dental insurance and they are no longer regularly going to the dentist. This is reality to all you teachers who feel entitled to MORE.

The issue that I have with your statements here is that they are absolute......

How about this......I'll edit it for accuracy....

Scarlet_Buckeye;560805 wrote:I concur, this is NOT about jealousy. This is about the sense of entitlement that some teachers perpetuate. Some of The rest of society is out there taking severe pay cuts and suffering severe benefit losses and some teachers are STILL unwilling to do the same at taxpayer's expense. FURTHER, when the school levies fail, it is the student's that further suffer by having sports cut, bus services cut, extracurricular activities, cut, book budgets cut, etc., etc. Teachers having pay freezes, and pay cuts,are virtually unheard of however most teachers are paying substantially more for benefits than they were with their last contract.

Eastlake City Employees. Its the only city listed for 2010

http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/local-salary

Con_Alma;560802 wrote:Can you expand on the differences for me?

Sure.

Tutoring is structured, additional instruction to a curriculum, outside of normal instruction.

A struggling student asking for help is, "Hey Mr. Smith, I don't quite understand today's lesson. Can you help me?"

Board of Barbers examiners State office.

http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/state-salary