jordo212000;458324 wrote:How have I "mocked" Cavalier fans? Please give me a few examples. I'm very curious.

Come on really? Talking about how cavs fans are butt hurt, or how cavs fans sucked off James. I am sure if i took the time to search your posts i can find many more examples.

I haven't been all negative about Cleveland. Far from it actually. Like I've said before, I'm just expressing my opinion. I was right several times about the Cavs the past 2 years and each time I got barbecued by Cavs fans who couldn't see the light.

Once JJ huddle broke up I really didn't join OC for awhile, and I really don't remember you on JJ so maybe you haven't been all negative. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Dynasty, however I do remember, and I have never seen anything positive from him. Like i said before, if you are not a Cleveland fan, and all you have to provide is negative feedback, then its going to raise a red flag. This can apply to any team.

Your point about them winning 60+ games is exactly the same point plenty of Cavs fans have made before. It doesn't matter. It is the regular season. There are 4-5 teams worth a crap in the NBA. The rest either suck, don't care, or are a combination of both. Unlike several Cavs fans I have never put much stock in the NBA regular season. You noticed Lebron didn't dance nearly as often in the playoffs, you can't always play the 76ers.

Only one team a year wins a title. You didn't exactly go out on a limb predicting the cavs won't win it all. My point is even during the 60 win seasons all people wanted to talk about is LeBron leaving, when it had absolutely NOTHING to do with the season and the cavs pursuit for a title. As for the people who came on just to say the cavs won't win it all.... yeah some people got bent out of shape about it, but I think you were blinded by that, because there were plenty of cavs fans who were doubting their chances of winning it all. Cleveland fans tend to be pretty critical about their own team. The city hasn't won a title since 1964, you can't claim we were already celebrating a title when the city has been heartbroken so many times. Trust me we are well aware its still a team from Cleveland, but in the meantime we will still try to enjoy the journey. The part that gets annoying is when the good times are here, there are always a few people who have to make their unoriginal snide remarks, and they tend to repeat themselves. We get it dude, you don't like Cleveland, and you don't think they will succeed, good job is there anything else you can provide? If you ever seen Major League 2, its like that tribe fan who is totally pessimistic about the team, even when they are rolling.

I'm not a troll. I just like talking basketball and there happens to be a team in the state of Ohio (where I live). It's getting to the point where you can't say anything about Cleveland basketball without a bunch of people coming out and calling you a troll just because you choose to live in reality. If you want to "troll" go right ahead. I'd be more than willing to bet we have a little bit of thicker skin in Cincinnati threads. We won't call you an idiot for bringing up points that do not agree with our fall sense of reality.

I already said I wasn't going to troll. It isn't in me. You are fooling yourself if you think cincy fans are have thicker skin though. Some of those same cincy fans are the same cavs fans you have been talking about. Also, I don't look at it as which group of fans have thicker skin. I look at it as Cleveland fans are very passionate about their team, meanwhile cincy fans (along with many other fan bases) are fairweathered and it doesn't nearly mean as much to them..... That's another discussion though.

like_that;458402 wrote:Also, I don't look at it as which group of fans have thicker skin. I look at it as Cleveland fans are very passionate about their team, meanwhile cincy fans (along with many other fan bases) are fairweathered and it doesn't nearly mean as much to them..... That's another discussion though.

You serious Clark? Just look at the recent history of the two cities. Cleveland nearly lost the Cavaliers before Stern stepped in and delivered Lebron and right now the Indians rank last in MLB attendance 30th of 30 teams. The Indians had all of those sell outs in a row in the late 90s, 00s. Now they're the worst? What has changed? They suck now and people quit coming. There is nothing more fair weather than that.

jordo212000;458642 wrote:You serious Clark? Just look at the recent history of the two cities. Cleveland nearly lost the Cavaliers before Stern stepped in and delivered Lebron and right now the Indians rank last in MLB attendance 30th of 30 teams. The Indians had all of those sell outs in a row in the late 90s, 00s. Now they're the worst? What has changed? They suck now and people quit coming. There is nothing more fair weather than that.

The Reds attedance isnt exactly something to brag about either. They have been near the top of their division all year and still rank 20th in attendance. The Reds finished 27th in attendance last year, does the increase in ticket sales mean they are all fair weather fans?


The Browns had an awful team last year and still finished 15th in attendance while the Benagls finished 23rd. Year before that (2008) Browns finished 6th in attendance and the Bengals finished 20th. Browns finished 7th in 07 while the Bengals finished 19th.

I can agree with you about fair weather Cavs and Indians fans but you will have that with most professional teams. Browns fans are a different story though. Bengals have had some very solid teams over the past couple years while the Browns have been miserable and yet you wouldnt know it by looking at the attendance records. Browns fans will get out and support their team more than any other professional team in Ohio. Its not even close either.

KR1245;458690 wrote:The Reds attedance isnt exactly something to brag about either. They have been near the top of their division all year and still rank 20th in attendance. The Reds finished 27th in attendance last year, does the increase in ticket sales mean they are all fair weather fans?


The Browns had an awful team last year and still finished 15th in attendance while the Benagls finished 23rd. Year before that (2008) Browns finished 6th in attendance and the Bengals finished 20th. Browns finished 7th in 07 while the Bengals finished 19th.

I can agree with you about fair weather Cavs and Indians fans but you will have that with most professional teams. Browns fans are a different story though. Bengals have had some very solid teams over the past couple years while the Browns have been miserable and yet you wouldnt know it by looking at the attendance records. Browns fans will get out and support their team more than any other professional team in Ohio. Its not even close either.

If it wasn't for Kroeger's and Ocho Cinco, the Bengals would have been blacked out for a few games. This was with a playoff team. I would like to see what the Bengals attendance would have been without Kroger and players buying all the tickets.

KR1245;458690 wrote: The Browns had an awful team last year and still finished 15th in attendance while the Benagls finished 23rd. Year before that (2008) Browns finished 6th in attendance and the Bengals finished 20th. Browns finished 7th in 07 while the Bengals finished 19th.

I can agree with you about fair weather Cavs and Indians fans but you will have that with most professional teams. Browns fans are a different story though. Bengals have had some very solid teams over the past couple years while the Browns have been miserable and yet you wouldnt know it by looking at the attendance records. Browns fans will get out and support their team more than any other professional team in Ohio. Its not even close either.

Notice I didn't say anything about Browns fans. They are a loyal bunch and among the best in sports.

The attendance thing (Browns having more fans) may have something to do with seating capacity. The Bengals are on tv every single week here in SE Ohio, which means the games are sold out. The Browns stadium seats 73,000+ while Paul Brown Stadium is only 65,000+. I think it is pretty obvious why the Browns have more fans attending games.

I still say that the group that supports the Indians and Cavs are among the worst fans around. The Indians fans I talk to say they won't go to a game until the Indians start winning and spending money, but then the Indians revenues are down because of that the team cuts back. And Indians fans are always very surprised when it happens.

The Cavs were very close to moving before Lebron arrived and a lot of people still claim shenanigans on Stern's part. We'll see how passionate the fanbase is this coming season when they have to root for Joey Graham and Christian Eyenga

But, Jordo, in this day and age, you've got to spend the money first. It took me a long time to realize that the Browns rule Cleveland and no matter what (excluding the Belichick era) they will show up. The Indians and Cavs seem to have to put out a winning program FIRST, before the fans come out. In addition, people around here are nuts about football, Number 1. So, it really doesn't matter about how the Browns are doing....people show up to have a good time which they KNOW will happen....AND a special bonus is winning a game and celebrating after a long NE Ohio fall-winter week!

jordo212000;458744 wrote:Notice I didn't say anything about Browns fans. They are a loyal bunch and among the best in sports.

The attendance thing (Browns having more fans) may have something to do with seating capacity. The Bengals are on tv every single week here in SE Ohio, which means the games are sold out. The Browns stadium seats 73,000+ while Paul Brown Stadium is only 65,000+. I think it is pretty obvious why the Browns have more fans attending games.

I still say that the group that supports the Indians and Cavs are among the worst fans around. The Indians fans I talk to say they won't go to a game until the Indians start winning and spending money, but then the Indians revenues are down because of that attitude, and as a result the team cuts back. And Indians fans are always very surprised when it happens.

The Cavs were very close to moving before Lebron arrived and a lot of people still claim shenanigans on Stern's part. We'll see how passionate the fanbase is this coming season when they have to root for Joey Graham and Christian Eyenga

How can you say that the Indians fans are the worst around? I dont know what that says about Reds fans if thats the case. I can promise you that if the Tribe was having a year like the Reds are having they wouldnt be 20th in attendance. Look at the record over the past coouple years, Indians attendance is higher than the Reds more often than not.

Cavs were close to moving? I dont remember hearing any real talks about the franchise moving. In fact, I cant remember any at all.

Jordo,...you do realize that the indians and cavs fans are the same as the browns fans?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/John-Mayer-pledges-to-wear-a-Cavaliers-jersey-in?urn=nba-263415


Ball Don't Lie ShareretweetEmailPrintWed Aug 18 01:00pm PDT

John Mayer pledges to wear a Cavaliers jersey in Miami
By Trey Kerby


Want a sure-fire way to win people over in Cleveland? Just make fun of LeBron James(notes). It's foolproof, since they hate him there. And it's OK to stoke that hate, since he hates some of them back. It's a win-win situation, just as long as LeBron's family doesn't burn down the Cavaliers organization. He's said they won't, so carry on.

If there's one guy embracing the absurdity of this entire situation, it's John Mayer. You didn't see that one coming, did you? But it's true. Oh, so true. As you can see from the picture above, Mayer took the stage in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, for an encore sporting a customized Cavaliers jersey and looking like a creepy, tattooed Anderson Varejao(notes). No big whoop — bands wear the jerseys of local sports teams all the time.

However, his plans for the jersey are pretty hilarious. Quoth the Mayer:

"Our last show of this tour — September 11 in Miami — I'm going to come out on stage wearing this [points to jersey] in Miami."


Mayer then mouthed "I promise" four times before speaking into the microphone, which makes this a totally legal and binding contract as everyone knows. No takesies-backsies, John Mayer.

The super sensitive singer-songwriter also noted that he'd have to "dodge a lot of projectiles," so at least he knows that he's risking bodily harm. But hey, according to him "sometimes you've gotta stir [milk] up." Consider it stirred, Mr. Run Through the Halls of My High School.


If you want to check out the whole video, Scene and Heard has it, but I'll warn you — it does contain about 30 seconds of Mayer playing acoustic, singing and making that weird face he always makes. Your call if you want to take that risk.

^Luke Jackson.

Ha he does look like Luke Jackson.

jordo212000;458744 wrote: I still say that the group that supports the Indians and Cavs are among the worst fans around. The Indians fans I talk to say they won't go to a game until the Indians start winning and spending money, but then the Indians revenues are down because of that the team cuts back. And Indians fans are always very surprised when it happens.

The Cavs were very close to moving before Lebron arrived and a lot of people still claim shenanigans on Stern's part. We'll see how passionate the fanbase is this coming season when they have to root for Joey Graham and Christian Eyenga

I'm sorry but every single thing in this statement is wrong. Indians and Cavs fans are the worst around? Really? Have you ever checked out a Marlins game? Or a Pirates game? Or a Grizzlies game?

The Indians and Cavs will never touch the Browns in Cleveland no matter what they do (though had LBJ stayed and won a few rings the Cavs might've had a shot), fans will support the team not if they're winning but if they are trying to win. The Indians garnered GREAT support during the Jacobs years. Not only was the team winning, but the ownership was able to assure fans that they would try to keep talent and win. The Dolans however are among the worst owners in professional sports today. They have totally and completely alienated the Indians fan base and most fans aren't attending games because 1. You could see the same talent in Columbus for a cheaper price and 2. if no one goes to the games eventually the Dolans will run out of money and sell the team, right? I mean trading CC and Lee in consecutive years along with one of the most popular Indians in Victor Martinez (who WANTED to stay in Cleveland) has given the fans no faith in their ownership. Rachel Phelps was a better Indians owner. But to say that Indians fans are some of the worst around when they sold out a then-record 455 consecutive games is an asinine statement. They just won't be pushed around and watch their team become the Pirates.

Now the Cavs are a different story. Let me give you a little history lesson. For about 20 years the Cavaliers played in Richfield. Pretty much all of the Pre-LeBron success for the Cavs happened in Richfield. Because they played there they drew fans not only from Cleveland, but from Akron, Canton, Youngstown and really all of northeast Ohio because they were so close. Now fast forward to the opening of the then Gund Arena. Now the Cavs are in downtown Cleveland and have to sell themselves to a whole new fanbase since many of those fans that went to the Coliseum are now further and won't go to as many games. Couple that with the fact that the Cavs were a mediocre to terrible team and you could see why attendance never really picked up. Fast forward to LeBron and all of a sudden Cavs fans have a reason to come to the arena. For the past 7 years Cavs fans have pretty much sold out the Q. With Dan Gilbert as owner, Cavs fans are assured that the Cavs are going to do what it takes to win and not become another Indians (keep in mind this happened once before with Ted Stepian). Because of this I can GUARANTEE that the Cavs attendance next year will still be pretty good. Not anything like the LeBron years, but not like the years immediately for LeBron either. LeBron for all the bridges he's torched managed to make the Cavs relevant in Cleveland again and Dan Gilbert continues to maintain that relevancy. Not to mention that Cleveland will support the Cavs now really as a way to spite LeBron.

As for the Cavs moving that was a statement you pretty much pulled out of your ass. After the Browns, Cleveland will NEVER allow the Cavs or Indians to leave. I'll type it again, NEVER. One more time, the Cavs were never close to leaving Cleveland and probably never will be as long as there's an NBA. They're the only team in Ohio and like I said....you won't be seeing another pro team leave Cleveland anytime soon.

And was the last comment supposed to be an insult or something? Eyenga was a late 1st rounder with potential and Graham is a filler signing. Are the Cavs supposed to throw 30 million at Darko? Come on dude, live in reality. After "The Decision" most of the big name FA's were gone. Now the Cavs have a situation where they have some decent players and a decent team that'll probably be in the hunt for a 6-8 seed in the East. Eventually through the draft, trades, and FA they'll be back to contender status but rome wasn't built in a day.

To quickly comment on the last post, here is a link to compare the Cavs financials from 1997-2007. Obviously they increased their value even more through last season, but it will be interesting to see what level it goes back down to.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/32/biz_07nba_Cleveland-Cavaliers_324902.html

Lebron was a rookie in 2004.

Gilbert came in 2005, so he inherited Lebron.

But look back to 2003-2004, the difference in operating income went from $4 million to $22 million. Revenue increased by $21 million.

It's just hard to predict what the future of the Cavs holds if they get really bad for several years. I think we are looking at 4 years before the Cavs can even get the pieces in place to make fans really optimistic, but it will be interesting to see what the financials look like at that time.

There is obviously more of a fan base now than before and I think with Lebron leaving it might have even made some of the casual fans more loyal to the Cavs because they sympathize with the current situation, but once the TV deal expires it will be interesting.

"fans will support the team not if they're winning but if they are trying to win"

I don't see how this is anything but an excuse that covers the same bandwagon/frontrunner fans that so many people claim to hate. You don't like the owner's decisions, so you bail you on the team? Or are you saying that the players aren't trying to win?

"Couple that with the fact that the Cavs were a mediocre to terrible team and you could see why attendance never really picked up. Fast forward to LeBron and all of a sudden Cavs fans have a reason to come to the arena."

Again, isn't this exactly the thing that "real fans" hate? Isn't the reason to come to the arena that it is YOUR team playing, good or bad, win or lose?

Its one thing to go suport a team like the Cavs which have demostrated a desire to win and doing what takes, IE spending money etc.. Sure LBJ leaving hurts, but I have faith and respoect the owner wants to win.

Now continuing to go to Indians games when the owners dont give a shit and trade away our best players? GTFO. I am still a tribe fan but I wont give the dolans my money when all they want to do is be the Pirates. Its a joke. Also the dolans said they would spend money when fans came to the games, thats a flawed sentiment if I ever heard one. Its like a resteraunt saying, "look, we know our food sucks, but we will not improve the quality until people start showing up!"

Its total bs, esp as a franchise owner, you have an obligation to try and win. Its not all about the bottom line.

I do think there is a difference from just being a bad team and not trying to win. It's easy to argue that the Indians are not trying to win, because they continue to trade their best players.

However, with Gilbert he has been willing to pay the luxury tax (mainly because he was still profiting) so there is a sense that he is willing to do whatever it takes to win, and fans appreciate that. I just don't think you can label Gilbert as "an owner willing to spend money" just yet. He was willing because he was profiting and had the revenue. Without Lebron the revenues will decrease and once the TV deal is renegotiated, it will decrease even more. We will see how much he's willing to spend then.

^^Do you ever have anything positive to say?

Pick6;460494 wrote:^^Do you ever have anything positive to say?

Didn't think my post was that negative, but more a thought regarding the future. People are so fucking sensitive it's sad.

Please explain to me where what I said was so negative? I think the future will be interesting because it's all new to Gilbert. He's had the most marketable and one of the best players in the league as property of his franchise since he came into ownership, and now that has changed so it will be interesting to see how Gilbert adapts. It's reality.

Commander of Awesome;460476 wrote:Its one thing to go suport a team like the Cavs which have demostrated a desire to win and doing what takes, IE spending money etc.. Sure LBJ leaving hurts, but I have faith and respoect the owner wants to win.

Now continuing to go to Indians games when the owners dont give a shit and trade away our best players? GTFO. I am still a tribe fan but I wont give the dolans my money when all they want to do is be the Pirates. Its a joke. Also the dolans said they would spend money when fans came to the games, thats a flawed sentiment if I ever heard one. Its like a resteraunt saying, "look, we know our food sucks, but we will not improve the quality until people start showing up!"

Its total bs, esp as a franchise owner, you have an obligation to try and win. Its not all about the bottom line.

So you just crap on the players who are actually trying to win for your team? Thats cool, I'm sure they appreciate your loyalty, "real" fan.

enigmaax;460533 wrote:So you just crap on the players who are actually trying to win for your team? Thats cool, I'm sure they appreciate your loyalty, "real" fan.

What is this little league baseball? Most of the indians player outside of a few examples, are crapping on the fans with their shitty play. I would like to know who you root for since youre so concerned with Cleveland fans, and the definition of a fan.

thedynasty1998;460529 wrote:Didn't think my post was that negative, but more a thought regarding the future. People are so fucking sensitive it's sad.

Please explain to me where what I said was so negative? I think the future will be interesting because it's all new to Gilbert. He's had the most marketable and one of the best players in the league as property of his franchise since he came into ownership, and now that has changed so it will be interesting to see how Gilbert adapts. It's reality.

just seems like every time someone has something positive to post about Cleveland, you attempt to find a way to shoot it down. It gets old, and the only Cleveland team I root for is the Cavs

Pick6;460668 wrote:just seems like every time someone has something positive to post about Cleveland, you attempt to find a way to shoot it down. It gets old, and the only Cleveland team I root for is the Cavs

I agree. Thats my only problem with that dude. He does this all the time.

Pick6;460668 wrote:just seems like every time someone has something positive to post about Cleveland, you attempt to find a way to shoot it down. It gets old, and the only Cleveland team I root for is the Cavs

Again, what did I say that was so negative? It's reality, no one knows how Gilbert will handle this franchise without the primary money maker.

Commander of Awesome;460591 wrote:What is this little league baseball? Most of the indians player outside of a few examples, are crapping on the fans with their shitty play. I would like to know who you root for since youre so concerned with Cleveland fans, and the definition of a fan.

Maybe I have you mistaken...and if so, I'm sorry. But weren't you talking a lot about loyalty in the last few weeks? I mean, hey, I'm all for making your team put a decent product on the field.....I just don't then turn around and call someone out for not being loyal. Maybe I have the wrong person, but I could've sworn you dogged LeBron for disloyalty. Its about the team, right? Not a player, not an owner?

It doesn't really matter who I choose to follow, but in baseball its the White Sox. And I never claimed to be a great fan.

thedynasty1998;460700 wrote:Again, what did I say that was so negative? It's reality, no one knows how Gilbert will handle this franchise without the primary money maker.

Stop being a dumbass for 2 sec and reread it. My god youre worse than a 3 yr old.