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Phillies @ Reds--Game 3--12:30 day game

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ Phillies @ Reds--Game 3--12:30 day game
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Jun 30, 2010 3:19 PM
Azubuike24;406567 wrote:The hitting isn't the problem though. It would be great to get another bat for depth, but you can't argue with the team leading MLB in runs, HR's, RBI's, hits, AVG and 2nd in OBP, SLG and 4th in OPS. Even with Stubbs, he provides enough running and in CF that you can't afford to lose what he brings because he's the one weak bat. Getting Hanigan back will be big, not only helping Ramon but making the catcher position a threat every night at the plate (it currently isn't with Corky as the backup).

The issue, as others have said, is the rotation. Cueto is good. Leake is good. Arroyo is good. Harang has been fairly steady lately, and Volquez is very good (but how will he respond after only 11 months post-surgery). The thing is, sometimes you need a chance at better than good. An ERA around 4 is great, but that means that consistently you are going to allow 4-5 runs a game, and it's just tough for an offense to sustain that every game when facing the likes of Halladay/Hamels, Cain/Lincecum, Carpenter/Wainwright, etc...in a playoff series or down the stretch of the season.

So regardless of whether it costs you Wood, Heisey and Cozart, or a similar package, to get Cliff Lee as a rental or Dan Haren for 2 years, you do it. If so, this team COULD win the pennant. This team really has it.
Do you think Stubbs plays a good CF?? I've not seen much evidence of that.
Jun 30, 2010 3:19pm
N

Nate

Formerly Known As Keebler

3,949 posts
Jun 30, 2010 3:20 PM
se-alum;406576 wrote:Do you think Stubbs plays a good CF?? I've not seen much evidence of that.
I question that also.
Jun 30, 2010 3:20pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Jun 30, 2010 3:21 PM
Travis Wood tomorrow, may answer the lefty question.

Lets just hope it's not the freak wind blowing out at Wrigley.
Jun 30, 2010 3:21pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Jun 30, 2010 3:26 PM
Nate;406579 wrote:I question that also.
He plays the wall like it's on fire, and I've seen him misplay plenty of balls that weren't on the wall.
Jun 30, 2010 3:26pm
D

dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Jun 30, 2010 3:37 PM
I'd take a big time CF over a #1 pitcher only because it will cost a lot less and I think the Reds need to keep Cueto/Volquez/Leake/Wood/Bailey on the team and see what they have. If they really want to go for it this year though Walt will probably try to acquire both.
Jun 30, 2010 3:37pm
gerb131's avatar

gerb131

Senior Member

9,932 posts
Jun 30, 2010 3:42 PM
Hot damn they are pulling them out these days. I haven't been on much lately so I missed some of the GDT things.
Jun 30, 2010 3:42pm
H

HeathAlum21

Senior Member

363 posts
Jun 30, 2010 3:42 PM
If they are willing to pay the contract, the Reds could look at Oswalt in division. Who do you see as possible CF's that will be available? I was looking through the teams and it could be difficult.
Jun 30, 2010 3:42pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Jun 30, 2010 3:45 PM
Stubbs plays a very good CF. He's got great range and breaks on balls very well. The only flaw I think he has is reacting to hits right at him, or over his head (like the one Ibanez hit last night, he should've had that). I wouldn't mind Heisey out there, or having Gomes/Stubbs/Heisey platoon for 2 spots, but Jay Bruce in CF, no, and I don't think the Reds need another OF unless it's a clear-cut, starting caliber LF. Trading for someone who isn't clearly better than Gomes/Heisey/Stubbs for 2 spots isn't worth it.
Jun 30, 2010 3:45pm
D

dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Jun 30, 2010 3:48 PM
DRH is no longer a Red, down to Louisville.
Jun 30, 2010 3:48pm
D

dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Jun 30, 2010 4:09 PM
HeathAlum21;406640 wrote:If they are willing to pay the contract, the Reds could look at Oswalt in division. Who do you see as possible CF's that will be available? I was looking through the teams and it could be difficult.

You are right, there aren't many available. I haven't really looked into it but I know DeJesus is available, and could probably had without giving up someone like alonso, bailey, frazier, etc. Put DeJesus and BP at 1/2 in either order and then you have a bottom of the lineup of gomes, cabrera, hernandez/hanigan. That's a pretty solid lineup there as long as bruce and gomes can keep producing at 5/6.
Jun 30, 2010 4:09pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
Jun 30, 2010 4:12 PM
Not a fan of Dejesus
Jun 30, 2010 4:12pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
Jun 30, 2010 4:19 PM
SportsAndLady;406687 wrote:Not a fan of Dejesus

If you dont mind me asking, why not?

He is a really solid bat. Career .290 hitter. Never below .280 in 8 (I think) years. Is having a career year in avg. at .330 and OBP at .400. Not a ton of power, but who needs that at the lead-off (or even 2 spot). Never had 100 Ks in a year, and I think his most is like 85. He would be a pretty big addition to this team. I dont know what else is out there, maybe someone better, but Dejesus would upgrade the Reds.
Jun 30, 2010 4:19pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Jun 30, 2010 4:21 PM
Stubbs will be fine. His average is low because of his horrid start. He has a solid OBP and plays a nice CF
Jun 30, 2010 4:21pm
D

dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Jun 30, 2010 4:22 PM
SportsAndLady;406687 wrote:Not a fan of Dejesus

For what reason? I've not seen him much, only when he plays the Reds or Tribe but he seems to be a very solid CF other than not being base stealer. That probably has a lot to do with the team he is on.
Jun 30, 2010 4:22pm
D

dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Jun 30, 2010 4:38 PM
jordo212000;406700 wrote:Stubbs will be fine. His average is low because of his horrid start. He has a solid OBP and plays a nice CF

His OBP is pretty poor for someone with that much speed. If you look at his season he got hot when the Reds played a stretch of really bad teams over a few weeks in May. I'm still a Stubbs supporter but being a 4th outfielder as pretty much a rookie on a team in a pennant race is nothing to be ashamed of.
Jun 30, 2010 4:38pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Jun 30, 2010 7:31 PM
Stubbs issue isn't OBP. He has drawn 28 walks, which isn't good, but it's not awful. A .312 OBP while batting only .234 isn't bad either, his issue is contact. Other guys like Cabrera, and even Phillips, have issues with OBP when their AVG isn't good. Phillips, and I'm in no way complaining about him, is hitting .312 and only has a .371 OBP. If he bats his normal .270, he is a very, very poor top of the order hitter with a career OBP at .318. The same goes for Cabrera, while he's hitting .246, he's only on-base at a .285 clip, meaning he's a contact driven on-base guy, which doesn't bode well. Stubbs, all throughout his minor league career, usually had around a 75-100 point differential between OBP and AVG, and while his AVG isn't ever going to blow you away, it's more tolerable at .234 than other guys.

Basically, Drew Stubbs, if we are considering replacing him in CF, then it should be a desperate time to replace Orlando Cabrera. Cabrera is worse defensively compared to other SS's than Stubbs is compared to other CF's, he has a lower OBP and is far less reliable stealing bases. Stubbs has better power and knocks in runs better as well. To boot, Stubbs is only 25. Therefore, there is no reason to discuss making a deal to replace him unless we are talking about finding another shortstop even more. You can't have it both ways.
Jun 30, 2010 7:31pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
Jun 30, 2010 8:17 PM
I guess i'm more not a fan of bringing in another outfielder, rather than not a fan of bringing in Dejesus.

I don't think we need another outfielder, I am fine with Gomes Stubbs, and Bruce. Stubbs has struggled a bit, but he's young and still has 8 HRs and 35 RBIs.
Jun 30, 2010 8:17pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

Administrator

49,363 posts
Jun 30, 2010 9:44 PM
How is Cabrera far less reliable stealing bases...isn't he 10/11 or 9/10???? Other points I agree with.
Jun 30, 2010 9:44pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Jun 30, 2010 10:05 PM
Cabrera is a career 15-20 SB a year guy who is a very good baserunner and gets those on intelligence, not speed. Stubbs, if in the right situations, is easily capable of 35-40. Stubbs is still like what, 17 for 20 and with very little experience doing it.
Jun 30, 2010 10:05pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

Administrator

49,363 posts
Jun 30, 2010 10:10 PM
I know what you are saying but regardless he is not FAR less reliable

Might say that about 10/18 Phillips
Jun 30, 2010 10:10pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Jun 30, 2010 11:48 PM
Keep Stubbs in there and let him develop. No reason to trade away chips for freaking David DeJesus
Jun 30, 2010 11:48pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

Administrator

49,363 posts
Jul 1, 2010 11:27 AM
Stubbs at best will be Von Hayes...but I doubt his average ever gets much above .270...which would be ok...but he looks like a .250 hitter. 30 SB and 15 HR...looks like it but that is not acceptable with 150 K and a .240 avg...he must improve those two aspects.

He's below average in CF at balls on or near the wall, getting a jump on a ball right at him (in front or behind)..but he is one of the best with his jump and range on the gappers.

In his short career I swear he has let more balls go off o fhis glove than Griffey, Edmonds and Andruw Jones did in their 45 years of playing CF
Jul 1, 2010 11:27am