McCrystal was given his 30,000 surge troops. Nothing was accomplished...other than more US casualties. The majority of Americans...including many from the right, are seeing this war for what it really is. The US's longest war involvement ever needs to end....and it needs to end yesterday.

I Wear Pants;397324 wrote:Don't take it out of context people. Of course Obama is responsible for the here and now of the war (s). I just think that these are still firmly in "Bush's war" territory. I'm not even adding any negative context to that in this discussion. It's just that when I think of who had the most influence on the starting of these wars as well as their going-ons it's still Bush. Maybe in a few years if Afghanistan is still a major effort that will switch to me thinking it's Obama's territory. As of now I still associate them with Bush.

Pants...no way this is Bush's war. This is all on Obama...and the way he has handled Afghanistan, Iraq, Gitmo. the Patriot Act et al....puts him the ranks of one of the worst presidents ever in my book. He has proven to me that he is gutless in standing up to the miltary money making machine. "War on terror"? nothing more than an overused euphemism coined by the last group in power. Just a couple of days ago, the Times Square bomber plead guilty. He said that as long as the US is waging war in the Middle East, people like him will continue to kill Americans. Obama is too stupid to figure it out.

BTW, Rolling Stone has posted the article now:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/119236

Footwedge;397415 wrote:Pants...no way this is Bush's war. This is all on Obama...and the way he has handled Afghanistan, Iraq, Gitmo. the Patriot Act et al....puts him the ranks of one of the worst presidents ever in my book. He has proven to me that he is gutless in standing up to the miltary money making machine. "War on terror"? nothing more than an overused euphemism coined by the last group in power. Just a couple of days ago, the Times Square bomber plead guilty. He said that as long as the US is waging war in the Middle East, people like him will continue to kill Americans. Obama is too stupid to figure it out.

He has mishandled these things. Dealing with the wars is one of the things I'm most disappointed in Obama for.

McChrystal is toast. Too bad because he's doing a good job and he's right on target.

if this happened to bush, McChrystal's family would have disappeared but since its the wimp obama nothing will happen. He will probably beg him to not resign.

McChrystal a canidate for Public Servant 2012.......... ?

Belly35;397719 wrote:McChrystal a canidate for Public Servant 2012.......... ?

Way too many skeletons in his closet.

He has denied multiple times he has Presidential aspirations, but General Petraeus could beat the paper deficient public servant currently occupying the White House. He would make Barry look like the very small man he is throughout the course of a campaign given the bullet-proof reputation he has developed due to the success of the surge. There is a leadership void right now suffocating Washington and who better to step in than one of America's most decorated and visionary soldiers.

It would make for quite a contrast. The community organizer, most at home aggitating local malcontents juxtaposed against a decorated army general, most at home organizing, mobilizing, and leading men/women to grab victory from the jaws of defeat as he did in Iraq. Given the depth of challenges this country faces we could use alot more of the latter, and a lot less of the former.

Besides, the left would be up shit creek as we have see the backlash from the American people when they tried to swift-boat him with the General Betreaus bullshit. The politics of personal destruction wouldn't work with him, and they can't win elections under those types of circumstances.

Joe Klein at Time is stating that McChystal will resign. But, no one is really confirming it yet.

I just read the Stones article and thought what McCrystal said was pretty bad. But, the article did make me laugh some areas and pause in others. I think it shows that SPECOPs soldiers are a special breed, clearly and it was this SPECOPs nature that landed McChrystal in hot water. Plus, it is fine to say this stuff in private, but not to a reporter, on the record, who you know is going to print it. The author also made it very clear he was painting McChystal as a badass. However, it is unclear if the author meant that and asked his questions from that or if McChystal and his staff gave off that impression. If the staff did give off that impression, that is not the conduct of a major combat commander.

BTW, the Team America stuff is just hilarious.

If Obama was smart, he would publicly reprimand McCrystal and then tell him to get back to Afghanistan and win the war.

If staged correctly it could keep him from looking too weak, but at the same time it would be a bold move as everyone is already looking for his replacement. I think he could rally people behind the decision ultimately, as well as help troop moral in Afghanistan by giving them their commander back to implement his war plan.

The more I have looked at this the more it seems that both firing him and keeping him are bad situations, but more potential good comes out of keeping him and finding a way to make it work than shit canning him and changing course midstream. It's just not a good idea.

IggyPride00;397820 wrote:The more I have looked at this the more it seems that both firing him and keeping him are bad situations, but more potential good comes out of keeping him and finding a way to make it work than shit canning him and changing course midstream. It's just not a good idea.

No it's not but BHO's pride will get in the way. Can't have your military commanders dissing you even if the commanders speak the truth.

Guarantee if he keeps him even after a public reaming there will be many on the right screaming how this shows Obama is weak.

I was not a very good soldier because i didn't follow order at times (orders are more like guidelines) and made desision base on the protection of my guys. If I was in the military now ... my guys would not be going out on any mission ..... Not My Commander and Chief and my leader McCrystal is who my men and I will follow.....

I Wear Pants;397871 wrote:Guarantee if he keeps him even after a public reaming there will be many on the right screaming how this shows Obama is weak.

Disagree. Many on the right might actually see Obama's willingness to NOT change leadership midstream in Afghanistan as a sign that he is a bit more pragmatic (and intelligent) than we thought. I would anyways. But since BHO has a real tough time accepting criticism of any kind, I highly doubt I'll have the chance to admit it.

Is there anyone else that is as qualified concerning the COIN strategy as McChrystal?

CenterBHSFan;398153 wrote:Is there anyone else that is as qualified concerning the COIN strategy as McChrystal?

Army Lt. Gen. David Rodriguez, McChrystal's No. 2 in Afghanistan, is pretty good and one name floated out there.
Marine Commander of U.S. Joint Forces Command in Norfolk, Va., Gen. Mattis has command combat experience in Afghanistan and Iraq is also another name.

Lieutenant General William B. Caldwell is another name that I've read. He is a big fan of COIN and teaching Afghanistan operations.

I actually have no idea what is going to happen. I can see McChrystal staying and leaving.

General Belly would take the call ................NO ..... I'm sorry that would mean Undocumented Public Servant Organizer would be my boss fuck that idea ... I like it better that UPSO works for me......

That give me a idea I'm calling Obama to a meeting he been screwing up from day one...... get his ass in here now

Thanks for the info, Ptown.

I'm actually undecided if he should stay or go.

On the one hand, if I was President, I think I would have fired him by now. There's just some things you can't do or say in public concerning your superior. Regardless of whatever anybody thinks of Obama, Commander in Chief is his title and deserves the respect (at least publicly) of the people he's in charge of.

On the other hand, I cannot blame him if he decides to keep McChrystal. I wouldn't necessarily think that that particular move would make him appear "weak". (he's already earned that title from me from other dealings, along with a few other titles)

But, now the more I think about it the more I think McChrystal should be removed from his position, and if Obama wants to keep him, he can place him somewhere else - maybe where he can still be involved at some level to tap into his knowledge.

I don't know... It's just bad all the way around and really, neither Obama or McChrystal can end up totally satisfied or be viewed in the best possible light.

Ok, have I flip-flopped enough? hahaha

Its called "Chain of Command" and evry military man is familiar with it. OK to bitch about your superior at the poker table over beers but not in a public forum. He's got to go as an example to the lowest private in the service.

There's no defending the guy's job, at this point. Insubordination. Fearless Leader is the boss, no matter how big an incompetent boob he might be.

What I find humorous is "reports that privately Obama is furious". LOL, we seem to hear a lot about Obama being "privately furious" anytime his omnipotence is questioned. I can't believe it's only been 18 months. Makes me want to cry. Let's hope America doesn't re-up this nitwit for another 4 years like they did the last one.

Belly35;398053 wrote:I was not a very good soldier because i didn't follow order at times (orders are more like guidelines) and made desision base on the protection of my guys. If I was in the military now ... my guys would not be going out on any mission ..... Not My Commander and Chief and my leader McCrystal is who my men and I will follow.....

No Belly...orders are orders..you were required to follow them. If not,you would have been court-martialed or put in the brige. You have spewed alot of crap on here,but that statement takes the cake


If he isn't your CIC and President,why do you still pay taxes and follow the laws?? If you don't care what he has to say,then why do you listen?? I don't care who the President is,he is OUR president and OUR CIC. Did I like Bush alot?? No Did I think I alot of the things he did were good?? NO But I still went along with what he did because I respect the office he holds and that he was doing what he thought was the best for the country. With your attitude,you don't respect the office of POTUS

I heard Obama took McCrystal to a solitary room in the White House. There on the desk was a loaded Beretta. "You know what to do." Obama said.

Obama is about to speak and White House sources say Obama has relieved him of his command.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/23/AR2010062300689.html?hpid=topnews

And then I'll be damned, the AP is saying Petreaus will replace McChrystal. Huh. I wonder if Petreaus will still be CENTCOM commander.

Also, I wonder if McChrystal will just retire and join the think tank/ private sector/ consulting area?

majorspark;398666 wrote:I heard Obama took McCrystal to a solitary room in the White House. There on the desk was a loaded Beretta. "You know what to do." Obama said.

The fact that Obama is still walking pretty much confirms that he doesn't.

Yep, official.
McChrystal out, Petreaus in as Commander of ISAF.

I really like the move, but who is CENTCOM commander now? Or does Petreaus wear both hats?