Lol. Fair enough. I agree with you about thinking outside the box.

Gilbert was taking it on the chin pretty good on local radio tonight once the decision came down Izzo was staying.

When you go all in like that, fly the guy in on your private jet (while only conducting a 1 hour phone interview with Byron Scott), offer him the huge contract and then have the guy choose to stay at his college you have egg on your face. He wanted to make a big splash and it backfired big time.

This was a major unforced error on Gilbert's part. He clearly never contemplated the idea Izzo could possibly say no to him, because otherwise he would have waited knowing that his decision could have been affected by Lebron's situation. Izzo said it didn't play a role, but I suspect he may have made the move if he knew for sure he was coming to coach Lebron. The ambiguity was enough to make him realize that leaving MS for a Lebronless Cavs would not have been a good situation, and it was just too risky a chance to take given how miserable he probably would have been had Lebron in fact left.

By not being patient and forcing the issue Gilbert blew it, and now for surely won't be able to get anyone in town before Lebron makes a decision. He also screwed himself by making such a huge offer to Izzo, because any coach with a shred of a decent resume is going to walk into a negotiation with the fact he was willing to offer a college coach with no experience $6 million a year, which then makes it hard to low ball an NBA vet with a solid resume.

Gilbert will be entering Daniel Synder territory soon if he keeps butting into player personnel decisions and not letting his basketball people run the show. It is why Ferry left, and installing a new GM with no prior experience at the position (who can more easily be a yes man and bullied by an aggressive owner) instead of a seasoned vet with the track record of success to stand up to Gilbert (as Ferry wanted in any new deal) is only perpetuating the idea he is a meddling owner. Playing fantasy basketball is fun, but it doesn't win championships.

Chris Grant has a lot of experience and there were a handful of teams wanting him to be their GM.

He may be more inline with Gilbert than Ferry, but Ferry had the reigns for 5 or so years and didn't get us anything.

^^ Hard to say Ferry gave the Cavs nothing. He gave Lebron the best team he has ever had and it was the players, not Ferry, who choked in the playoffs 2 years in a row.

Good for Izzo to stay at MSU. He is a great college coach and will have a very, very good team next year and could certainly make it back to the Final Four. He has no such chance in Cleveland if James walks and then he is stuck there.

Ferry failed to get us a legit #2, whether through trade or FA..

Ferry did a very good job under the helm though and you obviously took my comment the wrong way. What I meant in that he didn't give us anything was a championship title.

The BTN carried his press conference live and it was one of the best I have ever seen. It alone has made me a Tom Izzo fan.

thedynasty1998;390730 wrote:How can Stern fine someone that isn't his employee?

It was a joke since Stern has fined anyone else thats said anything about Lebron.

Izzo stated that not knowing the future of Lebron was a factor, and it's just my opinion, but because Izzo didn't know, I think it says Lebron is leaving.

And if that's the case, Izzo made the right decision.

As for Ferry, people want to believe that he was a good GM, however, he wasn't. This organization hung their hats on one guy and didn't really do anything to help him out. Now that he might leave, this franchise is set back at least 5 years.

hoops23;391110 wrote:Chris Grant has a lot of experience and there were a handful of teams wanting him to be their GM.

He may be more inline with Gilbert than Ferry, but Ferry had the reigns for 5 or so years and didn't get us anything.

Lebron hasn't helped him much. I know Trevor Ariza was looking long and hard at signing with the Cavs but Lebron wouldn't commit to the future so Ariza looked elsewhere. That's just one guy, but I imagine he wasn't the only one thinking that way

hoops23;391147 wrote:Ferry failed to get us a legit #2, whether through trade or FA..

Ferry did a very good job under the helm though and you obviously took my comment the wrong way. What I meant in that he didn't give us anything was a championship title.

Gotcha and yes as far as titles go he didn't deliver but can't put a ton of blame on him for putting together a team that won 60 games 2 years in a row.

i thought that scott wanted to be the next lakers coach. i seem to recall he had an out clause in his contracts that allowed him to pursue the lakers job. if phil is out, scot will want nothing to do with the cavs job.

This just proves my theory right. No big name coach or GM wants to go to Cleveland unless you stupidly over pay them. ( holmgren )

Con_Alma;391178 wrote:The BTN carried his press conference live and it was one of the best I have ever seen. It alone has made me a Tom Izzo fan.

Yeah....I would have loved to have him but the guy made the right choice, he loves Michigan State and college basketball. Cavs will be fine, time to look at Scott or Shaw

thedynasty1998;391266 wrote:Izzo stated that not knowing the future of Lebron was a factor, and it's just my opinion, but because Izzo didn't know, I think it says Lebron is leaving.

And if that's the case, Izzo made the right decision.

As for Ferry, people want to believe that he was a good GM, however, he wasn't. This organization hung their hats on one guy and didn't really do anything to help him out. Now that he might leave, this franchise is set back at least 5 years.

Come on. Ferry tried to help out Lebron the best that he could........theres a reason why NBA analysts and experts were predicting the Cavs to win the title, that was a good team that was let down by poor coaching as well as a tough matchup. Name me ONE GM that did more for his team over the past couple years than Ferry did.

Very smart move. He'd be dealing with a lot of LeBron crap if he chose to coach Cleveland.

KR1245;391526 wrote:Come on. Ferry tried to help out Lebron the best that he could........theres a reason why NBA analysts and experts were predicting the Cavs to win the title, that was a good team that was let down by poor coaching as well as a tough matchup. Name me ONE GM that did more for his team over the past couple years than Ferry did.

I didn't say Ferry didn't try, he did, he just wasn't successful.

NBA analysts were saying that because Lebron is that good. But come playoff time someone else has to help him out.


I'm not going to research personnel moves over the last 5 years, but there is certainly well more than one who did better than Ferry. You can't point to ONE move that Ferry made and say, "Yea, that was a solid move."

Jameson = bad
Mo Williams = okay move
Varejao's = overpaid
Gibson = overpaid
Draft = bad
Hughes = bad
Shaq = bad
Sticking with Mike Brown = probably not a good move

And I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure Ferry traded for Ben Wallace, talk about another horrible move...

Izzo stated that not knowing the future of Lebron was a factor, and it's just my opinion, but because Izzo didn't know, I think it says Lebron is leav

Come on. Ferry tried to help out Lebron the best that he could........theres a reason why NBA analysts and experts were predicting the Cavs to win the title, that was a good team that was let down by poor coaching as well as a tough matchup. Name me ONE GM that did more for his team over the past couple years than Ferry did.

Mitch Kupchak in LA.

Couldn't figure out why Izzo would have wantd to take a new job, even if LBJ stays. He's making a ton of money in a very comfortable situation...and he's 55 years old. That kind of a move is for a younger man with a lot of ambition.

thedynasty1998;391739 wrote:I didn't say Ferry didn't try, he did, he just wasn't successful.

NBA analysts were saying that because Lebron is that good. But come playoff time someone else has to help him out.


I'm not going to research personnel moves over the last 5 years, but there is certainly well more than one who did better than Ferry. You can't point to ONE move that Ferry made and say, "Yea, that was a solid move."

Jameson = bad
Mo Williams = okay move
Varejao's = overpaid
Gibson = overpaid
Draft = bad
Hughes = bad
Shaq = bad
Sticking with Mike Brown = probably not a good move

And I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure Ferry traded for Ben Wallace, talk about another horrible move...

You're pretty uneducated aren't you?

Jamison is FAR from a bad move. It was a GREAT move. Mike Browns fault that move didn't work out better.

Mo Williams was had for Damon Jones... DAMON JONES. That's a GREAT move.

Varejao is FAR from overpaid. He's arguably our 2nd most valuable player. He's making just above the MLE a year, how is that overpaid? Seriously? Come on....

Gibson given his playing time is overpaid, but he's consistently one of the top 3 point shooters in the NBA. Mike Brown forgot about him.. This team won 13 games in a row with him in the line up.

Draft is "ok".. We drafted JJ Hickson and Shannon Brown. Brown was obviously let go.

Hughes in hindsight is a "bad" move, but at the time he was coming off a career year. You can't predict the future and how he was going to perform here. Our first choices where Ray Allen and Michael Redd, both of which stayed with their current teams for more $$$

Shaq isn't a bad move either. Not when we only traded Pavlovic and Wallace for him. He no doubt made our team better as we were 2-0 against the Magic with him in the line up. Sadly, it didn't work out in the end, but it's FAR from a bad move.

Also, the year Ferry traded for Wallace, Delonte, and Wally was the same year we took the Boston Celtics to game 7 and almost won that game in Boston. That trade undoubtedly made our team better.

He made moves every year to make us better, but none of the moves were ones that got the job done. I still think the Jamison trade was enough to do so, but Mike Brown POORLY utilized his talents by trying to make him a spot up 3pt shooter....SMH.

And add to the the Jamison move...THE CAVS GAVE UP NOTHING. It was a great move, and as hoops said, it just didn't work out.

Hell if you wanna get that critical of Ferry, the draft of Bron hasn't worked out either.

wildcats20;392004 wrote:And add to the the Jamison move...THE CAVS GAVE UP NOTHING. It was a great move, and as hoops said, it just didn't work out.

Hell if you wanna get that critical of Ferry, the draft of Bron hasn't worked out either.

Exactly....even Darko has a ring.

^^ HAHA!! Almost had 2 to boot.

I'm not going to repond to that whole post, but explain to me how Jameson was a good trade? He didn't get the job done and has a HORRIBLE contract. Instead of having cap space to go out and sign a free agent, along with a 1st rounder, they are stuck with Jameson. I have absolutely no clue how anyone could think that the Jameson move was a good one.

Varejao the 2nd best player? Well that explains why they weren't a championship caliber team. Varejao is arguably the Celtics 7th best player and the Lakers 7th as well. Yet, he's the Cavs 2nd best player after Ferry put together a championship team? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Wow..

JamIson wasn't used right within the offense. Point blank. It's not that hard to understand, I mean we've been saying it as have others since the Cavs got Jamison. Mike Brown tried to make him a spot up 3 point shooter instead of letting Jamison do what he does best, which is work from the low block. I think the fact that Jamison and Shaq hardly playing together before the playoffs had something to do with it as well.

Also, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

I NEVER said Varejao was the 2nd BEST player. I said he was the 2nd most valuable; his hustle, rebounding, and work ethic are very important to this team, as it would be to ANY team.

LeBron, Mo, Delonte, JJ, Jamison, and Shaq were all better/more talented players than Andy.

So because Jamison was played out of position, we should give him a pass? No. He was brought in to improve the team, and he didn't. Is that Mike Browns fault? Maybe, but it's more Ferry. It's no secret that the Cavs needed someone to space the floor and open up lanes for Lebron. If they didn't think Jamison could do that, then it makes the trade even that much worse.

Stoudemire would have worked because he can knock down the 15 footer and also can play and score without the ball.

When you call someone arguagly the second most valuable, it means to me they are also the second best. Maybe I'm wrong in that. But I don't think he's either. Like I said, you are saying Varejao is Cleveland's second most valuable, where does he rank on other playoff teams? I don't know if there was another playoff team that you could say, "Varejao, if on that team, is their second most valuable player."