fixed hopefully

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims. And the terrorists did not create Islam, Islam created the terrorists.

It is for these reasons that I do not want the mosque there.

FairwoodKing;377075 wrote:Not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims. And the terrorists did not create Islam, Islam created the terrorists.

It is for these reasons that I do not want the mosque there.

Islam flat out did not create terrorism. Those are people that are looking for their own personal agendas in religious teachings and it is completely unfair to put that label on the Islamic faith.

CinciX12;377099 wrote:Islam flat out did not create terrorism. Those are people that are looking for their own personal agendas in religious teachings and it is completely unfair to put that label on the Islamic faith.

The Islamic faith teaches to spread the word by force if necessary. Islam is not a peace-loving religion.

FairwoodKing;377281 wrote:The Islamic faith teaches to spread the word by force if necessary. Islam is not a peace-loving religion.

lol, have you read the Qur'an? Have you talked to a Muslim? Spent any time in the Mid East? Fail.

AJ Arberry version is online, it is the best English translation, grammatically.

ptown_trojans_1;377306 wrote:lol, have you read the Qur'an? Have you talked to a Muslim? Spent any time in the Mid East? Fail.

AJ Arberry version is online, it is the best English translation, grammatically.

Pt , have you studied Muhammed military campaigns,
the assasination of Ka'b ibn al-AShraf, his leading opponent in Medina
the banishment of the bainu qainupa and banu jadir, two of the three major Jewish tribes in arabia and
the Massacre of all 600 men of the Jewish Banu Quraiza, the last remaing major Jewish tribe in Arabia
Executing personal enemies after victories for example Nadr ibn ah-harith
and of conquest
kind of a violent guy

isadore;377382 wrote:Pt , have you studied Muhammed military campaigns,
the assasination of Ka'b ibn al-AShraf, his leading opponent in Medina
the banishment of the bainu qainupa and banu jadir, two of the three major Jewish tribes in arabia and
the Massacre of all 600 men of the Jewish Banu Quraiza, the last remaing major Jewish tribe in Arabia
Executing personal enemies after victories for example Nadr ibn ah-harith
and of conquest
kind of a violent guy

Yeah, I see a different interpretation than you do. But, that is just my reading of history. My version is that the tribes actually started the fighting, attacking the conveys of Muhammad. Executing enemies was a very common practice for the time period, all the major faiths did it, check your books.

ptown_trojans_1;377393 wrote:Yeah, I see a different interpretation than you do. But, that is just my reading of history. My version is that the tribes actually started the fighting, attacking the conveys of Muhammad. Executing enemies was a very common practice for the time period, all the major faiths did it, check your books.

he began his own pogrom against the Jewish tribes
when they would not convert, banish or exterminate and
executing your enemies may have been a common practice, but it is hardly an argument to show that from its inception Islam was a religion of peace.

isadore;377423 wrote:he began his own pogrom against the Jewish tribes
when they would not convert, banish or exterminate and
executing your enemies may have been a common practice, but it is hardly an argument to show that from its inception Islam was a religion of peace.

Ehh, whatever agree to disagree. I have my version, you have yours. I think Islam is a fantastic religion for its belief that you should do whatever it takes to get closer to God. But, whatever.

I think your point though, that most Muslims are evil, or violent, or want to kill Christians, that his mosque will lead to so called Muslims like Osama is a huge stretch.

You cannot prove that this will be filled with so called Muslims that hate and want to destroy the U.S. Meanwhile Cbus posted some links of the head of the proposed mosque and he seems alright, like a good religious guy.

ptown_trojans_1;377432 wrote:Ehh, whatever agree to disagree. I have my version, you have yours. I think Islam is a fantastic religion for its belief that you should do whatever it takes to get closer to God. But, whatever.

I think your point though, that most Muslims are evil, or violent, or want to kill Christians, that his mosque will lead to so called Muslims like Osama is a huge stretch.

You cannot prove that this will be filled with so called Muslims that hate and want to destroy the U.S. Meanwhile Cbus posted some links of the head of the proposed mosque and he seems alright, like a good religious guy.

Muslims trying to get closer to God by coming to New York City, that what they did on 9/11, and in the first attack on the Trade Center and then about a month ago. New York City sure seems to draw them.

isadore;377456 wrote:Muslims trying to get closer to God by coming to New York City, that what they did on 9/11, and in the first attack on the Trade Center and then about a month ago. New York City sure seems to draw them.

lol, that is not what I meant. wow. You do know there are other Mosques in NYC?
lol, your blind animosity toward Islam is pretty funny.

ptown_trojans_1;377465 wrote:lol, that is not what I meant. wow. You do know there are other Mosques in NYC?
lol, your blind animosity toward Islam is pretty funny.

and since we have a free exercise clause in the 1st Amendment, they have that right. But no way should one be on a site where a group of Muslims trying to get closer to Allah killed 3000 people, most of them Americans. That is past wildly inappropriate to bordering on sacriligious.

isadore;377478 wrote:and since we have a free exercise clause in the 1st Amendment, they have that right. But no way should one be on a site where a group of Muslims trying to get closer to Allah killed 3000 people, most of them Americans. That is past wildly inappropriate to bordering on sacriligious.

So says you and your radical opinion of Islam.
Even if these guys are against what Osama did and everything al Qaeda stood for, you would still be against it? (I think you would, but just asking)

ptown_trojans_1;377483 wrote:So says you and your radical opinion of Islam.
Even if these guys are against what Osama did and everything al Qaeda stood for, you would still be against it? (I think you would, but just asking)

I dont claim to be a particular expert on Islam but I do know a little bit about its history and based on that knowledge, I know these blanket clamis that it is so completely a religion of peace are not true. Not peaceful religion from the get go. Are all Muslims terrorist, no, not even most. Are they more inclined toward terrorism because of the foundations of their faith, yep. Do they have a legal right to put their Mosque there, in all probability. Is it an insult and a desecration, based on recent history, you bet.

I think it's a stupid and unnecessarily PROVOCATIVE thing to do.

Find someplace else for it.

Common sense should be used here -- not political correctness.

isadore;377478 wrote:and since we have a free exercise clause in the 1st Amendment, they have that right. But no way should one be on a site where a group of Muslims trying to get closer to Allah killed 3000 people, most of them Americans. That is past wildly inappropriate to bordering on sacriligious.

You're completely right. No one on 9/11 other than white, Christian, peaceful loving people died.

removed for personal attacks, please refrain-LJ looked at the Islamic faith in greater detail than just trying to look for terrorist teachings you would find one of the most beautiful religions in the world that is very, very peaceful.

CinciX12;377576 wrote:....looked at the Islamic faith in greater detail than just trying to look for terrorist teachings you would find one of the most beautiful religions in the world that is very, very peaceful.

Absolutely...It's just that a significant number of Muslims have a strangely violent way of showing the love.

CinciX12;377576 wrote:You're completely right. No one on 9/11 other than white, Christian, peaceful loving people died.

removed for personal attacks, please refrain-LJ looked at the Islamic faith in greater detail than just trying to look for terrorist teachings you would find one of the most beautiful religions in the world that is very, very peaceful.

I am sure quite a few were Jewish people which made it more of a plus for the attackers. Budhist, Taoists, Hindhus, people not of the Book and according to the beliefs of these practitioners of Islam even more ripe for extermination. All the dead including the small percentage who were Muslims are a sacrifice to the establishment of a world wide caliphate. The founder of this "verry, very peaceful religion while he passing on the revelations to his followers that would become the Qur'an was practicing conquest, assassination and genocide.
I am truly sorry to see one of your comments removed for being a personal attack. I wish I could have read it and replied in kind. Invectice is reflective of strongly held opinion which I am sure you have on this subject. It is what you believe and feel, and it belongs in political discussion.
I hope you check out that Muslim dating service whose banner so often appears on this thread, if you havent already.
Ma'a Salaama

CinciX12;377099 wrote:Islam flat out did not create terrorism.

Agreed. They're doing a fine job refining it the past 30 years, though.

fish82;377783 wrote:Agreed. They're doing a fine job refining it the past 30 years, though.

The IRA would disagree.

gosh I will have to rethink my position when al queda follows the IRA example and renounces violence and enters into political dialogue. I got a feeling that is pretty unlikely. heck it might cause Muhammad to roll over at the Al-Masjid al-Nabawi if some Muslims somewhere weren't being violent to non believers.

Ok...but, Al-Quaeda does not, by any means, equal Islam.

Millions upon millions of Muslims are non-violent.

Your entire argument is flawed because you can't get it through your head that Al-Quaeda does not represent even a fraction of Islam, in the grand scheme of things.

And, i find it funny that everyone bitches about Muslims not denouncing terrorism...and completley ignore the links provided in various places with countless examples of Muslims denouncing terrorism.

Hell, the guy sponsoring this mosque is one of those people.

FairwoodKing;377075 wrote:Not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims. And the terrorists did not create Islam, Islam created the terrorists.

It is for these reasons that I do not want the mosque there.

Any links or statistics or whatever that most terrorists are Muslims?

I can think of many non-Muslim terrorist groups that are still active or have been active in the past.

Tamil Tigers...terrorist organization.
Shining Path...terrorist organization.
Lord's Resistance Army...considered a terrorist organization by most individuals/organizations, and they're supposedly "Christian." According to their leaders, they act the way they do in order to uphold the 10 commandments.
Maoist Rebels in Nepal

Just to name a few.

Granted, some of these might not be active anymore, or at least not nearly as active as they once were, but for goodness sake, the Tamil Tigers and Shining Path are two of the most infamous terrorist groups, as is the Lord's Resistance Army.

cbus4life;377888 wrote:Ok...but, Al-Quaeda does not, by any means, equal Islam.

Millions upon millions of Muslims are non-violent.

Your entire argument is flawed because you can't get it through your head that Al-Quaeda does not represent even a fraction of Islam, in the grand scheme of things.

And, i find it funny that everyone bitches about Muslims not denouncing terrorism...and completley ignore the links provided in various places with countless examples of Muslims denouncing terrorism.

Hell, the guy sponsoring this mosque is one of those people.

I saw the arabs chearing 9/11 on tv --> all muslims are terrorists. :rolleyes:

Good article from Andew McCarthy (WARNING: conservative author with conservative viewpoints who may express facts, logic, and sound ideas, but nevertheless will be given an asterisk because of his previously expressed beliefs):

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_peaceful_jihad_in_america_hgjgc0sPoO59nXSZbTIVaO/0

Talks about some "peaceful" and "moderate" Muslim groups in America who nonetheless seek to undermine American society non-violently from within:

The installation of Allah's law, believed by Muslims to be a divine injunction, is the necessary precondition to the creation of Islamic societies. While it can, and often is, waged forcibly, Islamists don't resort to violence (or, at least, to more violence) where surrenders, appeasements and capitulations are available.

And liberals will love this quote:

And effectively allied with the jihadists is the hard left across the West. For all their differences (e.g., on abortion and the rights of women and homosexuals) Islam and the Left are in essential harmony when it comes to their vision of authoritarian government and their perception of the immediate obstacle to their designs: American constitutional democracy.