Thank You Obama For FREE Health Care!

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Shane Falco

Senior Member

440 posts
May 21, 2010 4:10 PM
jmog wrote:
Bigdogg wrote: Our company health care cost has averaged a 10% increase the last TEN years. All the while while the deductibles go up and the coverages decrease. Is that Obama's fault also?

Why don't you have a problem with the law requiring everyone to have auto insurance?
1. Not everyone is required to have auto insurance. Also, only liability is "required", which means if I hit you, my insurance has to pay for it. I am not required to have any insurance on my own car. Also, as others have said, auto insurance isn't a requirement, proof of financial responsibility is.

2. We don't have mandatory provisions for "free" or government run car insurance for those who "can't afford" their own car insurance.

I can't stand when people use the "car insurance" analogy, it just shows they truly don't understand. They are comparing apples to oranges.
^^^This !!

Back to the porch now, Bigdogg!
May 21, 2010 4:10pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 21, 2010 6:08 PM
The fact is private insurance rates WILL go up with ObamaKare. It's by design. Ultimately employers will drop private health insurance altogether because it will be far too expensive to offer.

Don't you see? That's the plan. EVERYONE will eventually be forced to buy-in on a true government-run single-payer socialist health care insurance program.

And the beauty of ObamaKare is if you opt-out you can be fined...even jailed. More liberties, freedoms and personal choice just flushed right down the crapper.

Anyone who bought-off on Obama's pledge that everyone could keep their current private plans is a fool.

Folks the Big Lie has only just begun.
May 21, 2010 6:08pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
May 21, 2010 8:00 PM
ccrunner609 wrote: I hate Obama.
I don't hate Obama. But the shenanigans of the last few months ... well, let's just say that I am more disappointed and disgusted every day.
May 21, 2010 8:00pm
Z

zhon44622

Senior Member

226 posts
May 21, 2010 8:35 PM
Between 1995 and 1999 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose 9.7%

Between 2000 and 2008 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose close to 100% (double) at a pace that accelerated yearly.

between 2007 and 2008 the average policy rose 37%

so 10, 15, even 25% is actually a decreased rate of increase

where was this outrage back then?

It seems as if some of you who refer to "FREE" healthcare being offered, jail time for non compliance, or use the mantra "ObamaKare" need to spend a little less time regurgitating their spoon fed talking points and a little more time actually gathering the facts for themselves

here is a link to a chart:
http://blog.healthcareforamericanow.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/picture-6.jpg
May 21, 2010 8:35pm
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
May 21, 2010 8:46 PM
ccrunner609 wrote:
CenterBHSFan wrote:
ccrunner609 wrote: I hate Obama.
I don't hate Obama. But the shenanigans of the last few months ... well, let's just say that I am more disappointed and disgusted every day.
He will go down as the worst president of all time.

Ehh, doubtful. Remember those 19th century Presidents? Yeah, they were pretty bad.

Also, so far, I'd still put him ahead of Bush.


I also remember very vividly that the D's said that health premiums in the short term would go up, so not a surprise. But, I agree that the legislation was suppose to help cap costs and it did/ does not. That is my main reason against it.
May 21, 2010 8:46pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
May 21, 2010 9:15 PM
zhon44622 wrote: Between 1995 and 1999 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose 9.7%

Between 2000 and 2008 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose close to 100% (double) at a pace that accelerated yearly.

between 2007 and 2008 the average policy rose 37%

so 10, 15, even 25% is actually a decreased rate of increase

where was this outrage back then?
Looking at the dates you mention and the question you ask, I can definitely ask you a question, in order to answer yours.

When, in those dates, did we have a healthcare bil that was by in large not wanted by this country, shoved down our throats?
This bill was, at the very least, supposed to be more affordable. There will be people getting insurance for free or at a greatly reduced price based on the tax dollars of others; much like welfare (medicaid).

Your post is, ironically, a regurgitated spoon fed talking point.
May 21, 2010 9:15pm
Z

zhon44622

Senior Member

226 posts
May 21, 2010 9:24 PM
CenterBHSFan wrote:
zhon44622 wrote: Between 1995 and 1999 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose 9.7%

Between 2000 and 2008 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose close to 100% (double) at a pace that accelerated yearly.

between 2007 and 2008 the average policy rose 37%

so 10, 15, even 25% is actually a decreased rate of increase

where was this outrage back then?
Looking at the dates you mention and the question you ask, I can definitely ask you a question, in order to answer yours.

When, in those dates, did we have a healthcare bil that was by in large not wanted by this country, shoved down our throats?
This bill was, at the very least, supposed to be more affordable. There will be people getting insurance for free or at a greatly reduced price based on the tax dollars of others; much like welfare (medicaid).

Your post is, ironically, a regurgitated spoon fed talking point.
I guess you need to learn the difference between a fact used to support a point, and a factually incorrect claim repeated ad naseum to try and decieve the public of the FACTS.

And while I hold no advanced degree in math, i would guess that blaming an increase of 10, 15, 25% on this bill would represent a drop of 12, 22, or 27% and therefore, by defenition "more affordable.

While it is true that there is no cap in this legislation, that was not part of the initial argument.
May 21, 2010 9:24pm
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
May 22, 2010 12:34 AM
CenterBHSFan wrote: In my best Quaker Oats type:

::: ahem! :::

Change You Can Believe In!!!!!111!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!111
Steeling thunder loaned to me from On High .......... but nicely done.
May 22, 2010 12:34am
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 22, 2010 5:41 AM
ptown_trojans_1 wrote:Also, so far, I'd still put him ahead of Bush.
You're just being nice! ;)
ptown_trojans_1 wrote:I also remember very vividly that the D's said that health premiums in the short term would go up, so not a surprise. But, I agree that the legislation was suppose to help cap costs and it did/ does not. That is my main reason against it.
Yeah and it was also supposed to actually reduce the deficit. :rolleyes:
CenterBHSFan wrote:Your post is, ironically, a regurgitated spoon fed talking point.
Shhhhhhhhhhh.....I've warned you before that liberals implode when confronted with truth.
May 22, 2010 5:41am
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
May 22, 2010 8:55 AM
zhon, you totally missed my point.

People are bitching now because of the fact that the government is forcing yet another health insurance bill on the people. When rates went up before, people DID bitch and complain - but at least they knew that it wasn't government-forced.
Now, there's going to be hefty fines and/or jail time for not bending to the government's will.

Do you not see the difference? Or is that beside the point?
May 22, 2010 8:55am
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
May 22, 2010 10:41 AM
^^^This !!

Back to the porch now, Bigdogg!
[/quote]

Shane,
This is an adult conversation, please go back to the kid table.
May 22, 2010 10:41am
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
May 22, 2010 10:51 AM
ccrunner609 wrote:
CenterBHSFan wrote:
ccrunner609 wrote: I hate Obama.
I don't hate Obama. But the shenanigans of the last few months ... well, let's just say that I am more disappointed and disgusted every day.
He will go down as the worst president of all time.
The worst of all time? 50% think he's doing just fine.
May 22, 2010 10:51am
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
May 22, 2010 10:53 AM
If owning an auto was a right ( it is not) then the analogy between auto insurance and health insurance would be the same. Currently, those with health insurance are paying for people without insurance through higher premiums. Its all about increasing the size of the risk pool. Many of the things in the so called "Obama care" such as requiring everyone to have health insurance, public single payer have been proposed by both Democrats and Republican administration starting with Richard Nixon. The issue really is do you believe affordable health care is a right (I do) or a privilege.

As for blaming illegal aliens and deregulating insurance, those are Rush talking points that have already been debunked.
May 22, 2010 10:53am
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
May 22, 2010 11:00 AM
It's a privilege.

The only right you have to Health Care is for you to pay for it. Doctors, nurses, and those in the medical field don't work for free...someone has to pay them.

But I guess that will be up to the people who actually work and contribute to society..and pay for the deadbeats who don't.
May 22, 2010 11:00am
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
May 22, 2010 11:53 AM
ManO'War wrote: It's a privilege.

The only right you have to Health Care is for you to pay for it. Doctors, nurses, and those in the medical field don't work for free...someone has to pay them.

But I guess that will be up to the people who actually work and contribute to society..and pay for the deadbeats who don't.
So your position is people with legitimate disabilities and children should not get health care unless they pay for it?
May 22, 2010 11:53am
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 22, 2010 12:16 PM
Bigdogg wrote:The issue really is do you believe affordable health care is a right (I do) or a privilege.
If that's the issue then I believe we have a moral obligation as human beings to assist those in need including those who are ill.

But do I think you should pay for my health care by government edict? Hell no.

I believe we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But I do not believe affordable (whatever that means) health care is a right.

Forced government-care may temporarily assist with the "life" part of that equation but it takes away the liberty and doesn't guarantee happiness.
May 22, 2010 12:16pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
May 22, 2010 12:57 PM
believer wrote: Forced government-care may temporarily assist with the "life" part of that equation but it takes away the liberty and doesn't guarantee happiness.

That ultimately is the long and short of it.
May 22, 2010 12:57pm
Mr. 300's avatar

Mr. 300

Senior Member

3,090 posts
May 22, 2010 1:25 PM
Bigdogg wrote:
ManO'War wrote: It's a privilege.

The only right you have to Health Care is for you to pay for it. Doctors, nurses, and those in the medical field don't work for free...someone has to pay them.

But I guess that will be up to the people who actually work and contribute to society..and pay for the deadbeats who don't.
So your position is people with legitimate disabilities and children should not get health care unless they pay for it?

Ummmm, less you forget that those people were already getting "free healthcare" on the backs of taxpayers and healthcare providers.

Just talk to an ER person and they'll tell you.
May 22, 2010 1:25pm
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
May 22, 2010 2:55 PM
believer wrote:
Bigdogg wrote:The issue really is do you believe affordable health care is a right (I do) or a privilege.
If that's the issue then I believe we have a moral obligation as human beings to assist those in need including those who are ill.

But do I think you should pay for my health care by government edict? Hell no.

I believe we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But I do not believe affordable (whatever that means) health care is a right.

Forced government-care may temporarily assist with the "life" part of that equation but it takes away the liberty and doesn't guarantee happiness.
I said affordable health care, not free health care.
May 22, 2010 2:55pm
Mr. 300's avatar

Mr. 300

Senior Member

3,090 posts
May 22, 2010 3:19 PM
Bigdogg wrote:
believer wrote:
Bigdogg wrote:The issue really is do you believe affordable health care is a right (I do) or a privilege.
If that's the issue then I believe we have a moral obligation as human beings to assist those in need including those who are ill.

But do I think you should pay for my health care by government edict? Hell no.

I believe we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But I do not believe affordable (whatever that means) health care is a right.

Forced government-care may temporarily assist with the "life" part of that equation but it takes away the liberty and doesn't guarantee happiness.
I said affordable health care, not free health care.

Everyone has an opportunity for healthcare. Some choose not to have it, and would rather spend their money on TV's, cars, trips, cell phones, computers etc. Those typically are the younger crowd. Those that CAN'T were already taken care of by the system.

You're not making any sense with your statement. People HAD healthcare when they needed. it. Now, those that chose not to have are going to be FORCED to buy it. And yet those that can't afford it WILL STILL BE COVERED AS THEY WERE BEFORE.
May 22, 2010 3:19pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 22, 2010 5:24 PM
Mr. 300 wrote:Everyone has an opportunity for healthcare. Some choose not to have it, and would rather spend their money on TV's, cars, trips, cell phones, computers etc. Those typically are the younger crowd. Those that CAN'T were already taken care of by the system.

You're not making any sense with your statement. People HAD healthcare when they needed. it. Now, those that chose not to have are going to be FORCED to buy it. And yet those that can't afford it WILL STILL BE COVERED AS THEY WERE BEFORE.
Precisely my point.

Unfortunately we still have people out there who - for whatever mind-numbing reason - think the government should take care of us despite the negative implications to our right to free choice and personal liberties.

Amazing.
May 22, 2010 5:24pm
Mr. 300's avatar

Mr. 300

Senior Member

3,090 posts
May 22, 2010 5:52 PM
I guess we all aren't blessed with the common sense button at this time. :)
May 22, 2010 5:52pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 22, 2010 5:53 PM
Mr. 300 wrote: I guess we all aren't blessed with the common sense button at this time. :)
True but rest assured that ObamaKare will fix that for us one way or another. :P
May 22, 2010 5:53pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
May 22, 2010 11:08 PM
zhon44622 wrote: Between 1995 and 1999 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose 9.7%

Between 2000 and 2008 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose close to 100% (double) at a pace that accelerated yearly.

between 2007 and 2008 the average policy rose 37%

so 10, 15, even 25% is actually a decreased rate of increase

where was this outrage back then?

It seems as if some of you who refer to "FREE" healthcare being offered, jail time for non compliance, or use the mantra "ObamaKare" need to spend a little less time regurgitating their spoon fed talking points and a little more time actually gathering the facts for themselves

here is a link to a chart:
http://blog.healthcareforamericanow.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/picture-6.jpg
You suck at math.

2000-2008, going up to 100% sucks, but on a yearly basis that is "only" 9.1% per year.

If its raising by as much as people are claiming this year alone, its not a "decrease in the rate of increase", its being accelerated.

But hey, don't let the math facts get in the way of your rhetorical opinion.

You say something about others spoon fed opinions, and then post a link to "healthcareforamericanow.org"? Really?
May 22, 2010 11:08pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 23, 2010 7:05 AM
jmog wrote:You say something about others spoon fed opinions, and then post a link to "healthcareforamericanow.org"? Really?
Biased leftist sources of information are always legitimate as opposed to spoon fed right-leaning sources of information which are never legitimate. See how that works?
May 23, 2010 7:05am