Manhattan Buckeye wrote: "i think they should have not went through the school to do this...in that sense it was wrong..."

Yes, it was wrong. There are enough reputational beatings that publicly funded schools take as it is (and IMO with good reason), and to my point in my initial post on this thread it seems as if this week there is something in the water at these places. At what point did anyone in charge of this school think this may not have been a great idea? Did that even happen?

I just don't even begin to understand what on earth the administrators at this school were thinking. If they mess up a no-brainer like this, what else is going on? The worst part about this is whatever good was gained from the students meeting with the scientist is probably offset by the implicit attitude that they need to be segregated to learn anything.

ive seen it happen many times in my 15 years in education actually not sure if thats good or bad...but i wonder what the white population in at this school is?....in my district some schools are 95-99 percent black

Gblock wrote:

Manhattan Buckeye wrote: "i think they should have not went through the school to do this...in that sense it was wrong..."

Yes, it was wrong. There are enough reputational beatings that publicly funded schools take as it is (and IMO with good reason), and to my point in my initial post on this thread it seems as if this week there is something in the water at these places. At what point did anyone in charge of this school think this may not have been a great idea? Did that even happen?

I just don't even begin to understand what on earth the administrators at this school were thinking. If they mess up a no-brainer like this, what else is going on? The worst part about this is whatever good was gained from the students meeting with the scientist is probably offset by the implicit attitude that they need to be segregated to learn anything.

ive seen it happen many times in my 15 years in education actually not sure if thats good or bad...but i wonder what the white population in at this school is?....in my district some schools are 95-99 percent black

It is in Ann Arbor...so probably a really, really large white population.

redstreak one wrote:

Gblock wrote: our schools have done feild trips targeted towards blacks based upon the special needs of those students and those communites before i dont have a problem with it in certain situations...i couldnt get the link to work but your analogy to say that the only question to ask about a white only field trip i dont agree with....

its the same reason you can have BET and not WET get over it...

The scenario is this, elementary school principal who is black took 30 students who were also black to visit a professor at Michigan who works in the aero space field so that these students could see a black man who made it in the science field.

The biggest problem, done on public school time. This was something this principal could have worked out on non school time using non school transportation, IMO.

I dont think he was being maliscious to other races. I understand his point of wanting to let these kids see someone successful who faced the same challenges they did. I just think he should have thought this through! lol

This.

His intent was fine...he execution was pretty damn stupid.

"It is in Ann Arbor...so probably a really, really large white population. "

Maybe, my guess is being a university town the school is very diverse, with many Asians, Indian-Americans and Arabs (not just university related but also with the large Arab-American in southern Michigan generally).

Manhattan Buckeye wrote: ^^^

That is so beside the point I don't even know where to begin. I'll start with the issue isn't the trip, the issue is that only certain people were allowed to make the trip. It was a senseless discriminatory move. I work with inner city minorities as well, from my experience separating them from others isn't helpful in the least.

This.

I keep hearing from black leaders how we have to end discrimination based on race.

Well then, how about starting in your own backyards.

You can't have it both ways.

Taking kids on a SEPARATE AND BLACK ONLY field trip is not the way to build cohesiveness in society and send the message that we are all the same.

So if a black kid did not want to go on the field trip would it have sounded like this:

Sheriff Bart: Uh,Sir, you specifically requested two *******. Well, to let in on a family secret my grandmother was a Dutch.

Gblock wrote: first of all their is WET its called every other channel

I was trying to speak to the principals probable motivation...i dont think it was racist.

as far as people struggling....blacks make up probly 80 percent of the prison population and only 30 percent of the population of this country so yeah they are struggling more. dont get me started on the inequality in education they have received for a hundred years. the funny thing about saying switch black and white around is that it never gets switched....blacks as wells as women and minorities often get the short end.....

Your argument fits perfect for 20-30 years ago or more.

Your argument doesn't work in 2010.

Don't give me the "short end of the stick" crap, with affirmative action and minority scholarship or even regular scholarships that cater more towards minorities in hopes of gaining "diversity" in certain college majors, I've personally seen many times where the minorities are making out far more than the white males.

BCBulldog wrote:

The difference is that Sharpton likes to extrapolate racist motivations from situations regardless of intent or even facts. I am yet to hear anyone call the principal a racist or even say that he had racist intentions. He did discriminate based on race, but we have yet to see any evidence that his motivations were racist. Sharpton immediately jumps to the conclusion that the intentions are racist when the roles are reversed.

Exactly, no one is saying the principle is racist, not even close.

jmog wrote:

Gblock wrote: first of all their is WET its called every other channel

I was trying to speak to the principals probable motivation...i dont think it was racist.

as far as people struggling....blacks make up probly 80 percent of the prison population and only 30 percent of the population of this country so yeah they are struggling more. dont get me started on the inequality in education they have received for a hundred years. the funny thing about saying switch black and white around is that it never gets switched....blacks as wells as women and minorities often get the short end.....

Your argument fits perfect for 20-30 years ago or more.

Your argument doesn't work in 2010.

Don't give me the "short end of the stick" crap, with affirmative action and minority scholarship or even regular scholarships that cater more towards minorities in hopes of gaining "diversity" in certain college majors, I've personally seen many times where the minorities are making out far more than the white males.

more blacks in prison than live on college campuses.......tell me where affirmative action can get you a job right now??....your examples of how minorities have it so well is college scholarships? you are speaking of urban legends althought they exist they arent as prevalent as what some portray imo

gblock, are you seriously a teacher??? Your statistics are way off. No wonder the schools are a mess.


Personal attack removed- LJ

Gblock wrote: first of all their is WET its called every other channel

really? then what is Tyler Perry doing on TBS!?!?!?!?!

jmog wrote: Your argument fits perfect for 20-30 years ago or more.

Your argument doesn't work in 2010.

Don't give me the "short end of the stick" crap, with affirmative action and minority scholarship or even regular scholarships that cater more towards minorities in hopes of gaining "diversity" in certain college majors, I've personally seen many times where the minorities are making out far more than the white males.

Look, I mean it's gotten better but not to the point where us white guys are getting shafted.

If you were a betting man and you had to choose to bet whether the young black kid sitting on the stoop in front of an elementary school in the glenville neighborhood of Cleveland or the young white boy sitting on the stoop of an elementary school in Westlake would go on to become the head of an upper middle class household living the American Dream, which one would you wager your hard earned dollar on?

Yes, yes we know...there's always people who succeed and are not held back by their upbringing...I've read that FFT, a successful lawyer came from a blue collar household. I'm sure you, Jmog based on your talents and intellect would not have allowed for any school district to keep you from success. Many Chatters I'm sure have fought the good fight and scratched and clawed to success. This is not in doubt.

But for every one of those stories, there's 10 that turned out the other way. Like the Senior boy who asks his sophomore girlfriend to marry him after prom and they live happily ever after, these are the exception generally and not the rule.

I don't know why it is this way, and if you ask me affirmative action or United Negro College Funds step in too late in the game to have any real impact, but this is going on out there.

I see it every day...young black kids wandering over into the flats and Ohio City from the piece of crap public housing complex just down the way, and I see eyes that don't have a dream behind them. I don't know why and I don't know how but I know that I wasn't wandering around the streets at night aimlessly.

I think white professional america would let these kids walk into their corporate office and let them contribute to the bottom line with open arms if they could get the job done and work hard...but I don't know, maybe I'm not sure if they believe that or know that.

And hence ultimately, I get the point the black teacher was trying to make...to help unique black kids get a unique hope and talk to them separately in their own little world that unfortunately, although we'd all like to undo it, exists in some way...it was probably wrong to go about it the way he did.

cbus4life wrote:

Gblock wrote:

Manhattan Buckeye wrote: "i think they should have not went through the school to do this...in that sense it was wrong..."

Yes, it was wrong. There are enough reputational beatings that publicly funded schools take as it is (and IMO with good reason), and to my point in my initial post on this thread it seems as if this week there is something in the water at these places. At what point did anyone in charge of this school think this may not have been a great idea? Did that even happen?

I just don't even begin to understand what on earth the administrators at this school were thinking. If they mess up a no-brainer like this, what else is going on? The worst part about this is whatever good was gained from the students meeting with the scientist is probably offset by the implicit attitude that they need to be segregated to learn anything.

ive seen it happen many times in my 15 years in education actually not sure if thats good or bad...but i wonder what the white population in at this school is?....in my district some schools are 95-99 percent black

It is in Ann Arbor...so probably a really, really large white population.

And that's a problem?

jmog wrote: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/michigan-school-blacks-class-trip-principal-investigated/?test=latestnews

Well, the only question that needs answered to tell if this is wrong or not is this...

If it were a "white's only" field trip for any reason, would there be an uproar in the media about it?

Absolutely, Jacson, Sharpton, NAACP, ACLU, you name it would be on this like flies on crap if it was a "white's only" field trip.

Did they go to the local Zoo?

This is unbelievable. Had this been reveresed the liberal media would be in an uproar. The scheduling and execution are both horrible, and should never ever take place in today's times. The principal and school deserve harsh treatment for clear and blatant rascism in this instance. Never would it be allowed reversed. We all know that because it's wrong.

Manhattan Buckeye wrote: "It is in Ann Arbor...so probably a really, really large white population. "

Maybe, my guess is being a university town the school is very diverse, with many Asians, Indian-Americans and Arabs (not just university related but also with the large Arab-American in southern Michigan generally).

I went to graduate school at UofM, and while you are correct in regards to those different groups in the university setting, Ann Arbor seems to not have the immigrant population in general that characterizes the rest of the region.

ManO'War wrote: gblock, are you seriously a teacher??? Your statistics are way off. No wonder the schools are a mess.


Personal attack removed- LJ

well my stats were off the top of my head but not far off...the prison population is 60% black.... upon looking it up the population of blacks is only about 13% sooo that actually makes my point even more thanks....

as far as more blacks in prison than living on college campuses here you go


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21001543/

Your logic is seriously flawed though. One has nothing to do with the other. Don't commit a crime (is it really that hard?) and you won't end up in jail. Study hard and you will end up on a college campus.

It is all about the choices made.

im only bringing that stuff up to explain possible intentions and reasoning by the principal.....you would be surprised what i see on a daily basis in middle school....there are kids who are already disenfranchised(Sp) in the 8th grade....i have students right now who are in gangs barely come to school and could care less what is going on with their education then i meet their parents and their home situation and i dont really blame them....

his type of field trip at young age could allow a kid to see an african american male in a role that they have never seen before.... before i began working where i work i assumed that everyone has a chance and truth is they don't.

they dont have great examples in their life and examples on tv are worse...at my school most of the kids wanna be rappers or NBA, NFL...

parents in the black community right now arent always raising their kids there are a lot of kids who are on their own in middle school and really as uneducated as they are they still are more educated than their parents....this could inspire one of the children and give them another perspective. im sure that was the motivation for the trip

Gblock wrote: im only bringing that stuff up to explain possible intentions and reasoning by the principal.....you would be surprised what i see on a daily basis in middle school....there are kids who are already disenfranchised(Sp) in the 8th grade....i have students right now who are in gangs barely come to school and could care less what is going on with their education then i meet their parents and their home situation and i dont really blame them....

his type of field trip at young age could allow a kid to see an african american male in a role that they have never seen before.... before i began working where i work i assumed that everyone has a chance and truth is they don't.

they dont have great examples in their life and examples on tv are worse...at my school most of the kids wanna be rappers or NBA, NFL...

parents in the black community right now arent always raising their kids there are a lot of kids who are on their own in middle school and really as uneducated as they are they still are more educated than their parents....this could inspire one of the children and give them another perspective. im sure that was the motivation for the trip

You bring up some very real problems in society today. The problem is that they aren't limited to black children.

Al Bundy wrote:

Gblock wrote: im only bringing that stuff up to explain possible intentions and reasoning by the principal.....you would be surprised what i see on a daily basis in middle school....there are kids who are already disenfranchised(Sp) in the 8th grade....i have students right now who are in gangs barely come to school and could care less what is going on with their education then i meet their parents and their home situation and i dont really blame them....

his type of field trip at young age could allow a kid to see an african american male in a role that they have never seen before.... before i began working where i work i assumed that everyone has a chance and truth is they don't.

they dont have great examples in their life and examples on tv are worse...at my school most of the kids wanna be rappers or NBA, NFL...

parents in the black community right now arent always raising their kids there are a lot of kids who are on their own in middle school and really as uneducated as they are they still are more educated than their parents....this could inspire one of the children and give them another perspective. im sure that was the motivation for the trip

You bring up some very real problems in society today. The problem is that they aren't limited to black children.

TRU

Interesting that we've thrown billions and billions of dollars to end poverty and the racial divide, yet it still exits....why is that??

Mr. 300 wrote: Interesting that we've thrown billions and billions of dollars to end poverty and the racial divide, yet it still exits....why is that??

Because everyone from the 1960's hasn't died off yet.

There will always be racism, but when I see an old white guy and an old black guy sitting together it kinda makes me laugh. Good chance the old white dude still calls him 'colored'.

Mr. 300 wrote: Interesting that we've thrown billions and billions of dollars to end poverty and the racial divide, yet it still exits....why is that??

I would argue that those billions and those programs, many begun under President Johnson, are directly responsible for the mess that is the black community today.

Instead of helping raise people out of poverty, it entrenched them into a welfare system that gave messages like: why work when you don't have to and I'll get mine any way I can.

Factor in the infamous "no man in the house" rule that was supposed to prevent freeloading, and instead created a culture of single moms, baby mommas and the like, and you get to the point where far more black kids are growing up in households without stable parents to help guide their children.

Yet people want us to continue throwing billions at these same programs, even when history says what we've done not only failed -- but made things much worse.

And the people leading the charge to keep throwing money at these bad programs: most of today's black "leaders".

Gblock wrote:

more blacks in prison than live on college campuses.......tell me where affirmative action can get you a job right now??....your examples of how minorities have it so well is college scholarships? you are speaking of urban legends althought they exist they arent as prevalent as what some portray imo

Urban Legends my rear end, I've been through it first hand.

Go to a engineering program as a woman or black person and you will get every scholarship available thrown at you.