http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/michigan-school-blacks-class-trip-principal-investigated/?test=latestnews

Well, the only question that needs answered to tell if this is wrong or not is this...

If it were a "white's only" field trip for any reason, would there be an uproar in the media about it?

Absolutely, Jacson, Sharpton, NAACP, ACLU, you name it would be on this like flies on crap if it was a "white's only" field trip.

our schools have done feild trips targeted towards blacks based upon the special needs of those students and those communites before i dont have a problem with it in certain situations...i couldnt get the link to work but your analogy to say that the only question to ask about a white only field trip i dont agree with....

its the same reason you can have BET and not WET get over it...

i should qualify that one of the visits was to a prison.....and also the other trip involved tough conversations between blacks that needed to be had between ourselves and that would probably have made any whites there uncomfortable

This is going to be a fun thread...

cbus4life wrote: This is going to be a fun thread...

Gblock wrote:its the same reason you can have BET and not WET get over it...

What reason is that? Hypocrisy?

BCBulldog wrote:

Gblock wrote:its the same reason you can have BET and not WET get over it...

What reason is that? Hypocrisy?

yea hypocrisy....stop whining....its not that serious or should i say the issue isnt always black and white =)

Wrong? How about illegal? It seems as if public schools are trying to out-idiot each other, quotes from the article (with my comments bracketed):

“In hindsight, this field trip could have been approached and arranged in a better way."

[Ya think?! How about the opposite of the way you approached and arranged it.]

"But as I reflect upon the look of excitement, enthusiasm and energy that I saw in these children’s eyes as they stood in the presence of a renowned African American rocket scientist in a very successful position, it gave the kids an opportunity to see this type of achievement is possible for even them."

[So it isn't educational for children of other races to see a strong African American role model?]

“It was not a wasted venture," he continued, "for I know one day they might want to aspire to be the first astronaut or scientist standing on the Planet Mars...."

[It sounds like your mind is already there]

“The intent of our field trip was not to segregate or exclude students, as has been reported, but rather to address the societal issues, roadblocks and challenges that our African-American children will face as they pursue a successful academic education here in our community.”

[What was it Chief Justice Roberts said? Something to the effect of (paraphrased obviously) "if you want to end racial discrimination, you probably shouldn't address the problem by discriminating on account of race"]

Gblock wrote: our schools have done feild trips targeted towards blacks based upon the special needs of those students and those communites before i dont have a problem with it in certain situations...i couldnt get the link to work but your analogy to say that the only question to ask about a white only field trip i dont agree with....

its the same reason you can have BET and not WET get over it...

The scenario is this, elementary school principal who is black took 30 students who were also black to visit a professor at Michigan who works in the aero space field so that these students could see a black man who made it in the science field.

The biggest problem, done on public school time. This was something this principal could have worked out on non school time using non school transportation, IMO.

I dont think he was being maliscious to other races. I understand his point of wanting to let these kids see someone successful who faced the same challenges they did. I just think he should have thought this through! lol

i look at it this way....i hear people on here all the time talking about too many blacks getting public assistance free health care ect....these folks are in the trenches trying to break that cycle...its harder than you think. I have students who are in 8th grade who havent ever been out of inner city columbus.....

desperate times call for desperate measures. its cheaper to spend money educating someone and doing extra things for them while they are young than to pay for them to either go to prison or spend their life on public assistance

was this situation the best ...no surely not. but is it something to be outraged about? nope

^^^

That is so beside the point I don't even know where to begin. I'll start with the issue isn't the trip, the issue is that only certain people were allowed to make the trip. It was a senseless discriminatory move. I work with inner city minorities as well, from my experience separating them from others isn't helpful in the least.

Gblock wrote: i look at it this way....i hear people on here all the time talking about too many blacks getting public assistance free health care ect....these folks are in the trenches trying to break that cycle...its harder than you think. I have students who are in 8th grade who havent ever been out of inner city columbus.....

desperate times call for desperate measures. its cheaper to spend money educating someone and doing extra things for them while they are young than to pay for them to either go to prison or spend their life on public assistance

was this situation the best ...no surely not. but is it something to be outraged about? nope

Are you suggesting that only blacks struggle in this country? Just once I would like someone to tell me where I sign up for all the free privileges I'm supposedly entitled to just for being white.

Again, if this was a white principal taking only white students on a field trip the assholes, led by sharpton and jackson, would be crying all over the media. Discrimination is discrimination period!

Gblock wrote:yea hypocrisy....stop whining....its not that serious or should i say the issue isnt always black and white =)

I'm not whining. I'm just pointing out the inequality of the situation. It is serious because it is a publically funded school. Racial discrimination of any sort should not be tolerated when it is publically funded.

Gblock wrote:

its the same reason you can have BET and not WET get over it...

So you are admitting that a WET wouldn't "fly"? But why is that? Care to explain?

Same reason you couldn't have a "white's only" field trip, because somehow the "white's only" field trip would be "racist" but a "black's only" field trip is just trying to help the kids out.

Many blacks and whites fought so hard to end segregation based on race in the public school system. Returning to that method of education will only bring back strife and resentment between the races no matter how good the intentions are.

Here is a quote from the local article.

Adding to the ire over the trip are reports of what happened when the students returned to Dicken.

Several parents have written letters to complain to Roberts, Madison and board members, alleging that after the trip, students who didn’t get to go booed their fellow fifth-graders who were on the trip. The parents allege Madison then came into the classroom and harangued the students.

District officials said that’s not the case and called Madison “passionate” in his discussion with the students about race

This is what I am saying about segregation breeding resentment between racial or ethnic groups. Little 5th grade children who could not go showed their resentment when their fellow students returned from the trip. These resentments will carry on into adulthood.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arbor-school-district-investigating-legality-and-principals-actions-in-black-only-field-trip/index.php

jmog wrote: So you are admitting that a WET wouldn't "fly"? But why is that? Care to explain?

While I agree that this field trip situation is ridiculous, I don't think the BET analogy is all that good. It reminds me of the question "Why are there not white universities?". There were, they were called "universities". Pretending one can just switch the words "black" and "white" while ignoring the context of a couple centuries of history is a bit disingenuous IMO.

queencitybuckeye wrote:

jmog wrote: So you are admitting that a WET wouldn't "fly"? But why is that? Care to explain?

While I agree that this field trip situation is ridiculous, I don't think the BET analogy is all that good. It reminds me of the question "Why are there not white universities?". There were, they were called "universities". Pretending one can just switch the words "black" and "white" while ignoring the context of a couple centuries of history is a bit disingenuous IMO.

Exactly.

first of all their is WET its called every other channel

I was trying to speak to the principals probable motivation...i dont think it was racist.

as far as people struggling....blacks make up probly 80 percent of the prison population and only 30 percent of the population of this country so yeah they are struggling more. dont get me started on the inequality in education they have received for a hundred years. the funny thing about saying switch black and white around is that it never gets switched....blacks as wells as women and minorities often get the short end.....

BCBulldog wrote:

Gblock wrote:yea hypocrisy....stop whining....its not that serious or should i say the issue isnt always black and white =)

I'm not whining. I'm just pointing out the inequality of the situation. It is serious because it is a publically funded school. Racial discrimination of any sort should not be tolerated when it is publically funded.

privately funded trip i believe in this case though it was on school time

redstreak one wrote:

Gblock wrote: our schools have done feild trips targeted towards blacks based upon the special needs of those students and those communites before i dont have a problem with it in certain situations...i couldnt get the link to work but your analogy to say that the only question to ask about a white only field trip i dont agree with....

its the same reason you can have BET and not WET get over it...

The scenario is this, elementary school principal who is black took 30 students who were also black to visit a professor at Michigan who works in the aero space field so that these students could see a black man who made it in the science field.

The biggest problem, done on public school time. This was something this principal could have worked out on non school time using non school transportation, IMO.

I dont think he was being maliscious to other races. I understand his point of wanting to let these kids see someone successful who faced the same challenges they did. I just think he should have thought this through! lol

100% agree. If you are a private organization do what you want.

Many ethnic groups organize trips for their own. I participated on a Jews only trip. The difference was this was organized by a private youth organization.

and im not even saying this trip was right...i think they should have not went through the school to do this...in that sense it was wrong...i just think that the reactions are overboard....people talk about sharpton crying race card but isnt this the same thing just 'SWITCHED". funny how when it happens to your race its an easy card to throw.

Gblock wrote:I was trying to speak to the principals probable motivation...i dont think it was racist.

Racist...no. Racially prejudiced, racially discriminatory, racially exclusive, racially segregated...yes.

Gblock wrote:privately funded trip i believe in this case though it was on school time

I was speaking to the fact that the school is publically funded. Therefore, not permitted to discriminate regardless of the funding source.

Gblock wrote: and im not even saying this trip was right...i think they should have not went through the school to do this...in that sense it was wrong...i just think that the reactions are overboard....people talk about sharpton crying race card but isnt this the same thing just 'SWITCHED". funny how when it happens to your race its an easy card to throw.

The difference is that Sharpton likes to extrapolate racist motivations from situations regardless of intent or even facts. I am yet to hear anyone call the principal a racist or even say that he had racist intentions. He did discriminate based on race, but we have yet to see any evidence that his motivations were racist. Sharpton immediately jumps to the conclusion that the intentions are racist when the roles are reversed.

BCBulldog wrote:

Gblock wrote:I was trying to speak to the principals probable motivation...i dont think it was racist.

Racist...no. Racially prejudiced, racially discriminatory, racially exclusive, racially segregated...yes.

Gblock wrote:privately funded trip i believe in this case though it was on school time

I was speaking to the fact that the school is publically funded. Therefore, not permitted to discriminate regardless of the funding source.

yea i was trying to reply that to webserfinbirds comment about her trip...sorry i actually agree that it shouldnt have been done thru school in this format

"i think they should have not went through the school to do this...in that sense it was wrong..."

Yes, it was wrong. There are enough reputational beatings that publicly funded schools take as it is (and IMO with good reason), and to my point in my initial post on this thread it seems as if this week there is something in the water at these places. At what point did anyone in charge of this school think this may not have been a great idea? Did that even happen?

I just don't even begin to understand what on earth the administrators at this school were thinking. If they mess up a no-brainer like this, what else is going on? The worst part about this is whatever good was gained from the students meeting with the scientist is probably offset by the implicit attitude that they need to be segregated to learn anything.