If there is a teacher working in the district that wants to coach should he/she be hired instead any outside persons that do not work for the district?

(There is nothing going on as of now. This has been a problem in the past and I just want to know how some other people feel about coaches being hired who do not teach or even work for the school district when there are people who teach/work in the school district and get passed over year after year.)

1. Feelings should have nothing to do with it. Rational thought should.

2. Although it may not be ideal for football I don't have a problem with it. Extracurricular sports have gained too much emphasis and have almost become an entity of their own. In my opinion we as a society have lost perspective on it's role and place in the educational process. In certain communities it seems to have become a greater priority than the classroom activities. Creating a process whereby a "professional" coach is hired would only seem to lend to that movement.

3. I am not a fan of the union "mandating" these opportunities going to union members who want them but in the end it probably isn't an issue I would be willing to fight for in a contract negotiation. There are benefits to having school staffers lead these teams but it can and does work without them being in the driver's seat also.

The job should go to the person who is most qualified and gives the kids the best chance for success. Just because a guy is a teacher doesn't make them the best fit.

Success is defined in many ways when it comes to extracurricular activities. It comes down to what's the mission of the school system and how do extracurricular activities lend to that mission?

Great football coaches are not always they best people to lead extracurricular activities. Ideally when it comes to football you would want someone who is a great football mind but it should never come at the expense of the program being an extension of the mission of the school system.

Con_Alma wrote: Success is defined in many ways when it comes to extracurricular activities. It comes down to what's the mission of the school system and how do extracurricular activities lend to that mission?

Great football coaches are not always they best people to lead extracurricular activities. Ideally when it comes to football you would want someone who is a great football mind but it should never come at the expense of the program being an extension of the mission of the school system.

I agree with you 100 %, but in this day and age I see a lot of schools that will not keep that great mind around unless it is successful in extracurricular activities. Then again it goes back to what the school's definition of Success really is:
Success could be a .500 team, and a program with a 7 and 4 record could be deemed unsuccessful.

Success should not ever be entirely determined by wins and losses when it comes to extracurriculars.

We had a situation in the Mid 90's where the revolving door of head football coaches seemed to be whatever junior high math teacher that wanted the job got it. We finally went outside the district, bought a proven comodity, and have been a force to be dealt with ever since. I am not saying this is the best situation, but it has surely worked here. We went from the laughing stock of the league to a perrennial powerhouse.

WooHaa! wrote: The job should go to the person who is most qualified and gives the kids the best chance for success. Just because a guy is a teacher doesn't make them the best fit.

The role of a coach is primarily that of a teacher, especially at a high school and younger level. It makes perfect sense for coaches to be actual teachers where possible.

queencitybuckeye wrote:

WooHaa! wrote: The job should go to the person who is most qualified and gives the kids the best chance for success. Just because a guy is a teacher doesn't make them the best fit.

The role of a coach is primarily that of a teacher, especially at a high school and younger level. It makes perfect sense for coaches to be actual teachers where possible.

Now the next question is 'Does a school want a Teacher that Coaches, or a Coach that teaches' there is a difference.

Camoman wrote: Now the next question is 'Does a school want a Teacher that Coaches, or a Coach that teaches' there is a difference.

It would depend on which is considered more important. The answer to me is pretty obvious.

Ideally the head coach would be a teacher in the district. If the head coach isn't in the district, I think it is important to have some top assistants who are.

Manaze, why don't you just come out with it... First you start a thread bashing Redskinschop.com for posting pictures of high school athletes that for some reason you don't agree with, now your gripe is about Coach Connor of IC seeing how he works at the JVS, not Creek and you would rather someone you like be coach. Enough of your stirring in your round-a-bout way. What are these threads you are starting looking to prove?

Whats next?

queencitybuckeye wrote:

Camoman wrote: Now the next question is 'Does a school want a Teacher that Coaches, or a Coach that teaches' there is a difference.

It would depend on which is considered more important. The answer to me is pretty obvious.

Well right now with the acts like No Child Left Behind they are trying to make where every teacher is a "highly qualified teacher". They are trying to do away with the teachers that just sit there and read the paper and not actully teach.

IMO I think it is only fair for the job to go to a teacher already teaching in the district. I think it is better for the kids because some of them will have him/her as a teacher giving the coach a better chance of learning his/her players.

I do not think it is right to go outside the district and hire someone when there are people in the district who want the job and are qualified for it.

I also think though it is not right though to fire a current coach to hire a person that is a teacher in the district. Example of what I mean is say a school like Toronto that has had a few bad years goes outside of the school to get a coach, that coach turns the program around then they fire him to replace him with a teacher that is in the district.

I think there are a lot of problems when it comes to hiring a coach because its seems some schools play the favorites game and it ends up bad for all involved.

MANAZE wrote:
Well right now with the acts like No Child Left Behind they are trying to make where every teacher is a "highly qualified teacher".

Half of all teachers are below average.

queencitybuckeye wrote:

Half of all teachers are below average.

LOL...so are half of all coaches!

MANAZE wrote:

queencitybuckeye wrote:

Camoman wrote: Now the next question is 'Does a school want a Teacher that Coaches, or a Coach that teaches' there is a difference.

It would depend on which is considered more important. The answer to me is pretty obvious.

Well right now with the acts like No Child Left Behind they are trying to make where every teacher is a "highly qualified teacher". They are trying to do away with the teachers that just sit there and read the paper and not actully teach.

IMO I think it is only fair for the job to go to a teacher already teaching in the district. I think it is better for the kids because some of them will have him/her as a teacher giving the coach a better chance of learning his/her players.

I do not think it is right to go outside the district and hire someone when there are people in the district who want the job and are qualified for it.

I also think though it is not right though to fire a current coach to hire a person that is a teacher in the district. Example of what I mean is say a school like Toronto that has had a few bad years goes outside of the school to get a coach, that coach turns the program around then they fire him to replace him with a teacher that is in the district.

I think there are a lot of problems when it comes to hiring a coach because its seems some schools play the favorites game and it ends up bad for all involved.

Here is a scenario for you:
What happens when a Head football coach retires, resigns, or is just plain tired of all the negative people, but retains his teaching job? Now the School has to find a new head Football coach. All teaching jobs are occupied ,but the position for a Head Football Coach is open and has to be filled. No other teachers ( want to be football coaches) bids on the job. So how do you handle this?

I am a teacher that does not currently coach (was a coordinator),I think just hiring teachers as coaches is not giving the kids a fair chance to win games. Currently there are already to many teachers that coach football that are not qualified; it gives the kids playing a huge disadvantage. With guys like myself who played college ball, we are at such an advantage with football knowledge and scheme wise. If a former collegiate football player that is now a police officers has the free time to coach, it would be to the schools best interest to let him do that. Teachers go to school learn to teach, not how to learn how to defend the veer option. This happens with math teachers alot, these guys fall into coordinator postion they are not qualified for all the time. The days of teachers trying to coach "throw a chicken wing" or whatever ancient old school technique are over, coaches like myself will pick'em a part .

No one as illiterate as you is a teacher. Go away, liar.

frogflash84 wrote: I am a teacher that does not currently coach (was a coordinator),I think just hiring teachers as coaches is not giving the kids a fair chance to win games. Currently there are already to many teachers that coach football that are not qualified; it gives the kids playing a huge disadvantage. With guys like myself who played college ball, we are at such an advantage with football knowledge and scheme wise. If a former collegiate football player that is now a police officers has the free time to coach, it would be to the schools best interest to let him do that. Teachers go to school learn to teach, not how to learn how to defend the veer option. This happens with math teachers alot, these guys fall into coordinator postion they are not qualified for all the time. The days of teachers trying to coach "throw a chicken wing" or whatever ancient old school technique are over, coaches like myself will pick'em a part .

AMEN!

Camoman wrote:

Here is a scenario for you:
What happens when a Head football coach retires, resigns, or is just plain tired of all the negative people, but retains his teaching job? Now the School has to find a new head Football coach. All teaching jobs are occupied ,but the position for a Head Football Coach is open and has to be filled. No other teachers ( want to be football coaches) bids on the job. So how do you handle this?

You handle it by advertising the job and making it available to the best candidate while not offering a teaching position.

Best guy for the job. If they are teachers... that's a bonus. The kids deserve to have someone who knows what they are doing coaching them.

frogflash84 wrote: I am a teacher that does not currently coach (was a coordinator),I think just hiring teachers as coaches is not giving the kids a fair chance to win games. Currently there are already to many teachers that coach football that are not qualified; it gives the kids playing a huge disadvantage. With guys like myself who played college ball, we are at such an advantage with football knowledge and scheme wise. If a former collegiate football player that is now a police officers has the free time to coach, it would be to the schools best interest to let him do that. Teachers go to school learn to teach, not how to learn how to defend the veer option. This happens with math teachers alot, these guys fall into coordinator postion they are not qualified for all the time. The days of teachers trying to coach "throw a chicken wing" or whatever ancient old school technique are over, coaches like myself will pick'em a part .

It's not all about football. That's the point. It's about extending the educational experience through the efforts of trying to win football games.

You might "pick'em" apart but in the context of trying to win games the other program with that old school teacher is carrying out his duties in a manner that's consistent with the purpose of the extracurricular.

queencitybuckeye wrote: No one as illiterate as you is a teacher. Go away, liar.

I hate how people will pick a part forum messages and correct every single writing error. I am not writing a thesis for a grad class. I just enjoy the conversation with other football fans and feel I should be able to write any way I want. My planning period is almost over, I have to get ready for class.

OK, so if I am a teacher and no other teacher in the district wants the job I should get it? I never played. I watch it once in awhile. I'm pretty good at Madden. Those are my qualifications to lead a team on Friday night. But, because I am a teacher I get the job? That is crazy!
Let me repeat... Best Guy For The Job.

Uhhh, I don't think anyone advocated such a scenario. In fact I think the opposite has been stated here.

However, there are some concerning limitations due to many union contracts which require priority be given to union members for supplemental contracts.