I Wear Pants wrote: That's what I was getting at.

As my 4 year old daughter would say "I know that" lol... I forgot to put (^^^^ This) I agree with you.

I think a lot of this stems from how value money and how people value education. Unfortunately, many people value money more so than education. It really shouldn't be this way.

I was having a discussion with a fellow education major and her whole argument was that we need to change "No Child Left Behind" because it isn't doing what it's suppose to do. I agreed with this because NCLB really isn't effective in my mind, but I told her that even if we did change it, we weren't going to see the change we wanted because that wasn't the real problem.

The problem in our education system is that people don't VALUE the education they are getting. The kids don't and the parents don't show them that they should value it. The kids go half-assed in the classroom because their parents don't particularly care. Growing up, I was EXPECTED to have A's and only A's. I got a B and I had to go over everything with my dad because if I wasn't getting an A then there was a problem, especially in the lower grades. Once I got to high school, the content got a little more difficult and when we went over the few B's I got, it was a little more acceptable because I am NOT a genius by no means.

Also, I knew my entire life that I was going to college. No if's, and's or but's about it. Obviously, I had the option not to, but it would have turned into a HUGE argument. My dad told me he was giving me the opportunity to get an education and play sports on his dime. I had expectations and "payments" in forms other than money(i.e. helping him rebuild the deck, painting, etc). And again my grades were a huge factor. He made it clear that a 3.5 was the only thing that was acceptable.

Now, I'm a lucky one. I understand this. My dad doesn't value money over education. He knows that helping me is worth not having the extra little shit anyways. One of my best friends wants to go to school to be an auto mechanic. His parents won't help him pay for the schooling. He makes more money now than his mom does, but still isn't enough to pay for school. All he needs is SOME help, but they won't give it even though his dad makes good money. That's not fucking fair at all. He's not being given the opportunity.

Like someone said, if you really want to, you can make them pay you back once they get their career going. There is no doubt in my mind that your child is going to need a college education to have a good job, unless he's lucky.

My son went to college a little later than some. We really didn't have the ability to send him and we were very proud of his decision to get the money to go on his own. His method was military service and he went in and ended up in Panama chasing Noriega around. He was called on Dec 23 so it was a very trying Christmas as we were receiving no information etc. Several years later he had graduated with a Liberal Arts degree with a specialization in business. He was interviewed by a pharmaceutical company as a salesman, which may not seem like a job you would need a college education for, but he was not going to be interviewed without it. 20 years and several pharmaceutical headhunting job changes later, He has a beautiful home on our city's Country Club development, Is well into the 6 figure salary range, and all because he had that little piece of paper when he went to that first interview. I would have to say that in his case, and I'm sure there are other stories like this one, you can always use that little piece of paper.

LJ wrote:

GoChiefs wrote:

LJ wrote: College costs are way different now than for people our parents age. My dad was able to work 3/4 time, pay for a house, and a kid, and paid for OSU. He was on track to graduate in 4 years time, but he quit to be a foreman for grandpa's construction company. Now, someone would have to make college graduate money, just to pay for college. So, no, if they could do it, they child cannot

Eh..I don't buy it. B/c I know they can. I did it. I went to college. Paid for it myself. Now make pretty decent money, have a wife and child, pretty nice home. Just call me ol' fashion I guess...just seems to me like the kids expect everything to be handed to them nowadays. You want a college education, go out and earn it on your own. It's not that hard to do if you really want it.

So you went to a 4 year state university and finished in 4 years with no debt paying for it yourself? Didn't think so.

Worked full time as an apprentice meat cutter. debt = $0

LJ wrote:

queencitybuckeye wrote:

LJ wrote:

GoChiefs wrote:

LJ wrote: But having to do what dad did isn't :rolleyes:

What's wrong with doing it the way dad did? :huh:

nothing, if that's what they want to do. I think parents should afford their kids more options than just saying "this is how I did it and it's the same way you are going to do it"

Not paying for a child's education leaves them only one way to do it? Not remotely factual. I thought of several in 30 seconds.

what? Saying "if you want to go to college, you have to get loans and work and pay for the whole thing yourself because that is how I did it" is not providing your kid with options. Sorry.

And that's the only option you can come up with? Try harder, there are others (it would mean admitting you were wrong, but that never killed anyone).

GoChiefs wrote:

LJ wrote: what? Saying "if you want to go to college, you have to get loans and work and pay for the whole thing yourself because that is how I did it" is not providing your kid with options. Sorry.

Door A) Go to college and pay for you life decision.
Door B) Go to work and not start your life out in debt.
Door C) Go to work and save up money and then go to college so you're not in debt.
Door D) Go to college and work towards your education at the same time.

Yeah..I'd say he has options.

There are several additional doors as well.

Pick6 wrote:

GoChiefs wrote:

LJ wrote: Because it should be their life, not yours.

Yeah. No shit. That's what I've been saying all along. It's his life. Let him be responsible for his choices.

are you going to kick your kids out when they turn 18 too?

My mother-in-law made my wife and her sister pay rent any time they were home. That included summer break from college and after the graduated.

When we got married her parents gave us all the rent money she had paid.

Con_Alma wrote:

Pick6 wrote:

GoChiefs wrote:

LJ wrote: Because it should be their life, not yours.

Yeah. No shit. That's what I've been saying all along. It's his life. Let him be responsible for his choices.

are you going to kick your kids out when they turn 18 too?

My mother-in-law made my wife and her sister pay rent any time they were home. That included summer break from college and after the graduated.

When we got married her parents gave us all the rent money she had paid.

So they gave them back their own money... like it was a gift. Kind of like a tax return from the gov't

My parents are helping me, but I'm looking for a way to get Grad school paid for, so that's why I'm going the graduate assistant coach route. I'm not sure I could foot the bill for an MBA on my own right now

My parents helped, but didn't pay 100%.

Here's the help I had...

Freshman year my parents paid all tuition that wasn't covered by my scholarships.
All 4 years my grandma paid for my books.
My parents let me live at home (commuted) until I got married in my 3rd year.
If my car broke down, they would let me borrow theirs I just had to drop my mom off at work and pick her up (she happened to work near the campus).

That was plenty of help in my book from a middle class set of parents.

The 3 years after my freshman year I worked extra jobs, got some student loans (not much), and paid my own way through college. I really think it taught me the value of money instead of getting mommy and daddy to pay for everything.

Parents paid for undergrad, i paid for grad. Same with my twin brother. And it will be the same with my little brother who is going to Brown next year (Lord help them with that one)

No snow we go! wrote:

Con_Alma wrote:

Pick6 wrote:

GoChiefs wrote:

LJ wrote: Because it should be their life, not yours.

Yeah. No shit. That's what I've been saying all along. It's his life. Let him be responsible for his choices.

are you going to kick your kids out when they turn 18 too?

My mother-in-law made my wife and her sister pay rent any time they were home. That included summer break from college and after the graduated.

When we got married her parents gave us all the rent money she had paid.

So they gave them back their own money... like it was a gift. Kind of like a tax return from the gov't

At that point is was not their own money. They paid for receiving a portion of the housing, utilities and food while living in the home. The parents held all of those payments and gave it to them as a gift when they left they house to get married.

I thought it was a nice gesture.

queencitybuckeye wrote:

LJ wrote:

queencitybuckeye wrote:

LJ wrote:

GoChiefs wrote:

LJ wrote: But having to do what dad did isn't :rolleyes:

What's wrong with doing it the way dad did? :huh:

nothing, if that's what they want to do. I think parents should afford their kids more options than just saying "this is how I did it and it's the same way you are going to do it"

Not paying for a child's education leaves them only one way to do it? Not remotely factual. I thought of several in 30 seconds.

what? Saying "if you want to go to college, you have to get loans and work and pay for the whole thing yourself because that is how I did it" is not providing your kid with options. Sorry.

And that's the only option you can come up with? Try harder, there are others (it would mean admitting you were wrong, but that never killed anyone).

:rolleyes::rolleyes: ok so what
Take out loans
Go to school for 8 years while paying for it yourself
go into the military
try to get scholarships

Unless there is some magical way you know of that no one else does.

Is it selfish for the kids to expect to have no financial obligation for the cost of their secondary education?

Con_Alma wrote:

LJ wrote:

GoChiefs wrote:

LJ wrote: College costs are way different now than for people our parents age. My dad was able to work 3/4 time, pay for a house, and a kid, and paid for OSU. He was on track to graduate in 4 years time, but he quit to be a foreman for grandpa's construction company. Now, someone would have to make college graduate money, just to pay for college. So, no, if they could do it, they child cannot

Eh..I don't buy it. B/c I know they can. I did it. I went to college. Paid for it myself. Now make pretty decent money, have a wife and child, pretty nice home. Just call me ol' fashion I guess...just seems to me like the kids expect everything to be handed to them nowadays. You want a college education, go out and earn it on your own. It's not that hard to do if you really want it.

So you went to a 4 year state university and finished in 4 years with no debt paying for it yourself? Didn't think so.

Worked full time as an apprentice meat cutter. debt = $0

in 4 years in the 2000's?

Con_Alma wrote: Is it selfish for the kids to expect to have no financial obligation for the cost of their secondary education?

I don't think a kid should expect it, I still think they have to earn it. Good grades, good behavior, good work ethic and so on. Like I said, I worked my ass off for my dad's company between the ages of 13-21 making minimum wage (of course only getting half of that in my pocket, dad kept half), so it's not like my parents just gave me college.

No. No that's not what I am asking at all.

There is a service provided to the student. That service has a cost associated with it...a monetary cost. Is it selfish to expect that someone else be responsible for that cost?

LJ wrote:

Con_Alma wrote:

LJ wrote:

GoChiefs wrote:

LJ wrote: College costs are way different now than for people our parents age. My dad was able to work 3/4 time, pay for a house, and a kid, and paid for OSU. He was on track to graduate in 4 years time, but he quit to be a foreman for grandpa's construction company. Now, someone would have to make college graduate money, just to pay for college. So, no, if they could do it, they child cannot

Eh..I don't buy it. B/c I know they can. I did it. I went to college. Paid for it myself. Now make pretty decent money, have a wife and child, pretty nice home. Just call me ol' fashion I guess...just seems to me like the kids expect everything to be handed to them nowadays. You want a college education, go out and earn it on your own. It's not that hard to do if you really want it.

So you went to a 4 year state university and finished in 4 years with no debt paying for it yourself? Didn't think so.

Worked full time as an apprentice meat cutter. debt = $0

in 4 years in the 2000's?

Uhh, no. I'm a little bit older than that.

Con_Alma wrote: No. No that's not what I am asking at all.

There is a service provided to the student. That service has a cost associated with it...a monetary cost. Is it selfish to expect that someone else be responsible for that cos?

that's what i answered. A kid shouldn't expect it.

I didn't ask if they should expect it. SMH.

Read the question again.

Do you believe that it would be selfish if a student does expect that the montery expenses be paid by another.

Con_Alma wrote: I didn't ask if they should expect it. SMH.

Read the question again.

Do you believe that it would be selfish if a student does expect that the montery expenses be paid by another.

well obviously if I think that a child should not expect it, then I think it is selfish if they do EXPECT someone else to pay for it. Sorry you couldn't understand that.

Why are you sorry?

There are people out there that do expect that their education be payed for by their parents. I have had conversations with kids that don't understand why they should have to take on any of the financial burden when their parents can cover it. I wonder if that is thought as being selfish by folks out there.

UA5straightin2008 wrote: so is there not a job out there that would be higher paying that requires the college degree you have?

Definitely not.

Glory Days wrote: maybe it wasnt a requirement, but it could have put you at the top of the candidate list compared to other people the company could have hired.

Could have. Could not. The job I currently have. They hired about 15 of us at the same time. Not everyone had a college education out of us 15. We had to take a test just like everyone else. That's what they were more concerned with. How you did on their own test, not a college degree.

curious, what is your degree in? ^^^

GoChiefs wrote:

UA5straightin2008 wrote: so is there not a job out there that would be higher paying that requires the college degree you have?

Definitely not.

Glory Days wrote: maybe it wasnt a requirement, but it could have put you at the top of the candidate list compared to other people the company could have hired.

Could have. Could not. The job I currently have. They hired about 15 of us at the same time. Not everyone had a college education out of us 15. We had to take a test just like everyone else. That's what they were more concerned with. How you did on their own test, not a college degree.

Can I ask what field your job is in? Because it sounds like you're very far in the minority as far as well paying jobs go.