BRF
Posts: 8,748
Apr 16, 2010 8:41pm
Ho Ho! Talk about some unearned runs!
Go Tribe, ....from one of the "fossils"!
Go Tribe, ....from one of the "fossils"!
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 16, 2010 8:41pm
But you cannot assume a double play. It could be that the scorer will rule that since the other runner was held at third with one out, then he's assuming that the first runner would have stayed there as well..Glory Days wrote:no way they change that. that runner doesnt even get to 3rd if Choo fields it.Footwedge wrote: Well...just looked up the official box score, and they have ruled the run unearned. I would be willing to bet a six pack that that scoring ruling will be reversed.
I still say that they change the ruling.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Apr 16, 2010 8:48pm
Am I wrong with how that inning played out?Footwedge wrote:
But you cannot assume a double play. It could be that the scorer will rule that since the other runner was held at third with one out, then he's assuming that the first runner would have stayed there as well..
I still say that they change the ruling.
Without the error:
--Ramirez Single
--Teahen Single (Ramirez to second)
--Pierre Sacrificed (Ramirez to third, Teahen to second)
--Beckham grounded out to third (runners held)
--Quentin grounded out to third (end of inning)
How the hell is that gonna be ruled an earned run??
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Apr 16, 2010 8:50pm
huh? you dont assume anything. the runner moved to second on the hit then because of the error advanced to 3rd and scored. had ramirez been on 3rd it would be a different story because he scored on the hit.Footwedge wrote:But you cannot assume a double play. It could be that the scorer will rule that since the other runner was held at third with one out, then he's assuming that the first runner would have stayed there as well..Glory Days wrote:no way they change that. that runner doesnt even get to 3rd if Choo fields it.Footwedge wrote: Well...just looked up the official box score, and they have ruled the run unearned. I would be willing to bet a six pack that that scoring ruling will be reversed.
I still say that they change the ruling.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 16, 2010 8:57pm
First off...you are assuming that the runner is held at second base on Choo's error. Obviously, the scorekeeper made the same assumption.
With that said, let's assume that the scorekeeper is right. The White Sox would bunt both runners over...down 3-1. The infield then plays DEEP. and the second run scores from 3rd....because Peralta, playing deep, throws the ball across the diamond to first base. Under this scenario, the run is earned. I say the official scorer changes his call.
With that said, let's assume that the scorekeeper is right. The White Sox would bunt both runners over...down 3-1. The infield then plays DEEP. and the second run scores from 3rd....because Peralta, playing deep, throws the ball across the diamond to first base. Under this scenario, the run is earned. I say the official scorer changes his call.
Tigerfan00
Posts: 3,427
Apr 16, 2010 8:59pm
They should let Talbot go for the complete game, hes had a damn good night.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 16, 2010 9:01pm
Read my latest post. If the Sox bunt, which they most likely do (they did it anyway), then the runners are at second and third. Down 2 runs with one out. Tthe infiekd plays DEEP and not in at the cut of the grass. Now, the runner from third scores...on the grounder to Paralta.Glory Days wrote:huh? you dont assume anything. the runner moved to second on the hit then because of the error advanced to 3rd and scored. had ramirez been on 3rd it would be a different story because he scored on the hit.Footwedge wrote:But you cannot assume a double play. It could be that the scorer will rule that since the other runner was held at third with one out, then he's assuming that the first runner would have stayed there as well..Glory Days wrote:no way they change that. that runner doesnt even get to 3rd if Choo fields it.Footwedge wrote: Well...just looked up the official box score, and they have ruled the run unearned. I would be willing to bet a six pack that that scoring ruling will be reversed.
I still say that they change the ruling.
It's not that hard to understand here.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Apr 16, 2010 9:01pm
I get what your saying. But a scorekeeper isnt going to just say the infield wouldve been back. In cases like this, you just have to assume the inning plays out the EXACT same but with that lead runner (Ramirez in this case) a base behind where he is.Footwedge wrote: First off...you are assuming that the runner is held at second base on Choo's error. Obviously, the scorekeeper made the same assumption.
With that said, let's assume that the scorekeeper is right. The White Sox would bunt both runners over...down 3-1. The infield then plays DEEP. and the second run scores from 3rd....because Peralta, playing deep, throws the ball across the diamond to first base. Under this scenario, the run is earned. I say the official scorer changes his call.
BRF
Posts: 8,748
Apr 16, 2010 9:02pm
I am liking this "complete game" business! It's a return to the old days!!!! And Talbot has never gone past 5 innings. I hope the skipper hands him the ball for the 9th!
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Apr 16, 2010 9:03pm
its because he did all but stop. if he was going to 3rd on the hit, he wouldnt have had to look back into right field to see Choo miss the ball before running to 3rd. had it been a hit and run, it still would be unearned because the runner would have made it to 3rd on the hit. but he still would only have scored because of the error.Footwedge wrote: First off...you are assuming that the runner is held at second base on Choo's error. Obviously, the scorekeeper made the same assumption.
none of that matters. what if the next 2 batters strike out? what if the next batter pops up and then the batter after that grounds out. there is no what if. unless Ramirez would have scored on the that specific play(the example i gave with him being on 3rd and scoring on the hit, not the error), it is unearned.Footwedge wrote: With that said, let's assume that the scorekeeper is right. The White Sox would bunt both runners over...down 3-1. The infield then plays DEEP. and the second run scores from 3rd....because Peralta, playing deep, throws the ball across the diamond to first base. Under this scenario, the run is earned. I say the official scorer changes his call.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Apr 16, 2010 9:03pm
Talbot will be out there for the ninth unless Acta wants to get the pen some work (but it would be 1 player, so whats the point) and not let them go 3 days off.
newarkcatholicfan
Posts: 3,199
Apr 16, 2010 9:07pm
I am shocked but happy to see the team playing so well in this one.
BRF
Posts: 8,748
Apr 16, 2010 9:11pm
YES! I am going to get the Glittering Wahoo out!BRF wrote: I am liking this "complete game" business! It's a return to the old days!!!! And Talbot has never gone past 5 innings. I hope the skipper hands him the ball for the 9th!
royal_k
Posts: 4,423
Apr 16, 2010 9:11pm
Ballgame!!
2 comeplete game victories in a row!
2 comeplete game victories in a row!
royal_k
Posts: 4,423
Apr 16, 2010 9:13pm
Charlie Nagy and Chad Ogea were the last Tribe pitchers to go back to back complete game wins in1996.
Tigerfan00
Posts: 3,427
Apr 16, 2010 9:14pm
Not only is it two complete games in a row but its also by the 4 and 5 rotation starters.
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NOL fan
Posts: 376
Apr 16, 2010 9:16pm
haha, phase one completeNOL fan wrote: yeah, though it wouldn't surprise me if they somehow won tonight, only to lose the next 2
now prove me wrong Tribe when it comes to phase 2 and 3
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 16, 2010 9:17pm
Look guys....I'm not saying I'm right. I just offered my opinion. Obviously this scoring decision is a judgement call. In my judgement, the runner from third would have scored with the infield back.
So far, the official scorer agrees with you guys. If i was scoring it, the run is earned...because in my judgement, the runner scores on the ground ball. Why do I think he scores? Because the infield will ALWAYS PLAY DEEP in a second and third situation up 2 runs.
So far, the official scorer agrees with you guys. If i was scoring it, the run is earned...because in my judgement, the runner scores on the ground ball. Why do I think he scores? Because the infield will ALWAYS PLAY DEEP in a second and third situation up 2 runs.
newarkcatholicfan
Posts: 3,199
Apr 16, 2010 9:17pm
Maybe the new mgr has no faith in the blowpen whatever the case may be I like the way he has given the starters the chance to close out the game.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 16, 2010 9:19pm
People have been clamoring for the GW, BRF. The opportunities will be far and few between.BRF wrote:YES! I am going to get the Glittering Wahoo out!BRF wrote: I am liking this "complete game" business! It's a return to the old days!!!! And Talbot has never gone past 5 innings. I hope the skipper hands him the ball for the 9th!
BRF
Posts: 8,748
Apr 16, 2010 9:21pm
[size=xx-large]BAM![/size]
[size=xx-small]psst..........let's just drop the earned/unearned "thang" and enjoy the win!!............OK?[/size]
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Apr 16, 2010 9:22pm
I mean, I agree that I think the run wouldve scored in that situation. But if Im scoring I have a hard saying that run scores mainly because it was to 3rd. The runner mightve frozen on a ball to the corner infielders regardless of if they were playing back. Likely Peralta wouldve been halfway in, if not all the way in at the corners which you see a lot of times in those situations.Footwedge wrote: Look guys....I'm not saying I'm right. I just offered my opinion. Obviously this scoring decision is a judgement call. In my judgement, the runner from third would have scored with the infield back.
So far, the official scorer agrees with you guys. If i was scoring it, the run is earned...because in my judgement, the runner scores on the ground ball. Why do I think he scores? Because the infield will ALWAYS PLAY DEEP in a second and third situation up 2 runs.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Apr 16, 2010 9:23pm
btw, that was a very well played game all the way around. Starters have made me eat my foot so far this year.
BRF
Posts: 8,748
Apr 16, 2010 9:24pm
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Apr 16, 2010 9:25pm
i know what you are saying, but that isnt how you determine if the run is earned or not. the only thing to consider is if Choo fields the ball cleanly, would the runner on 1st have scored on that play.Footwedge wrote: Look guys....I'm not saying I'm right. I just offered my opinion. Obviously this scoring decision is a judgement call. In my judgement, the runner from third would have scored with the infield back.
So far, the official scorer agrees with you guys. If i was scoring it, the run is earned...because in my judgement, the runner scores on the ground ball. Why do I think he scores? Because the infield will ALWAYS PLAY DEEP in a second and third situation up 2 runs.