Cruiser....What was the move? I can think of two that may make you scream, but nor let you pin yourself.

cruiser_96 wrote: No. You're not reading it right. We had a dual with them on Thursday, AND THEN saw them again on Friday at Watkins. That's two dual meets in less than 18 hours with almost the exact same line-ups. Plus, we only had nine wrestlers to begin with and 2 were pretty banged up from previous matches. That leaves 7. Only 2 had not wrestled a Panther yet so we put them out there.

OK, I still don't understand. You had seven wrestlers and wrestled two? Why? They beat you badly one day and you won't wrestle them the next day? What kind of message does that send your kids?

You're going to see them at Sectionals, do you plan of forfeiting to them there? Come to think of it, it's not uncommon for two wrestlers to meet twice at Sectionals or Districts or State. Would you forfeit the second match in that situation?

I guess we just have a difference of opinion on this. This goes back to our (I guess it was more me and Playground Legend) discussion of forfeiting when you have able-bodied wrestlers at weights. I think you send them out there to compete. You can't just not compete because you think you'll lose. I believe kids learn from losses, even bad losses. It's your job as their coach to take them aside afterwards and talk them through it; explian to them what happened, what did and didn't go right and what needs to change for next time. Teach them so they learn from the experience.

All of us were bad at some point in our careers, but we took our lumps and we got better...but we all learned from those lumps. What is winning without losing? Losing is what makes winning so great. If you've never felt the pain of being dominated on the mat, how can you appreciate the satitfaction of a dominant victory?

I lost 21 times in high school, and every one of them meant something to me. I was decisioned, majored, pinned and teched. Every one taught me something. Had my coach shielded me from those losses, even the really bad ones, I wouldn't have become the wrestler I did and more importantly, I wouldn't have learned the valuable lessons that wrestling teaches that apply to all aspects of my life.

From the outside looking in, it sounds to me like your heart is in the right place. You're trying to protect your kids, but you end up shielding them from much more than a few bad losses. You shield them from competition and you shield them from the things they are supposed to experience as wrestlers.

Bitterrunner-up wrote: I lost 21 times in high school

I lost 19 times my freshman year ^_^

Westie101 wrote: I lost 19 times my freshman year ^_^

And somehow you lived to tell the tale.

sad to hear the refs couldnt stop the match coaches had to

The kid is 75%, maybe.

Power half was the move.

Reread your post, bitter. The assumption is that we are shielding the from losses. That's not the case. We practiced once in 5 days, saw them two of those days and will see them again in 8 days! We had 34 quality matches that day. Why wrestle a fifth match against the same team? It's not shielding but rather unbeneficial...if that's a word.

Anywho...

cruiser_96 wrote: Why wrestle a fifth match against the same team?

I'm not trying to argue, I'm sincere when I ask "why not"? :huh:

Are you really sure that move is legal?

Top man throws leg in on the right side and cranks power half from the left side. Bottom man can not even go to his back if he wanted to because his right hip is trapped by the top man as he is cranking on the opposite side. Immediately potentially dangerous at worst. I am fine with cranking the power half as long as the hip is released and bottom man is physically ABLE to go to his back.

Quite honestly, I am not surprised there was an injury as I have seen same kid with the same move countless times in the last two years and have NEVER seen an official make the call.

Refman, am I crazy or does this make sense?

queencitybuckeye wrote:

cruiser_96 wrote: Why wrestle a fifth match against the same team?

I'm not trying to argue, I'm sincere when I ask "why not"? :huh:

No harm in asking - with you or bitter's question.

QCBuckeye... I think it comes down to timing. We wrestled a fifth match earlier in the year and would have against the same team on the same day. I guess my point is timing. 8 days from the sectional tournament... As a staff, we didn't see the big deal.

Shank...He was rolled over. It could have been a combinatino of the scissor (which wasn't the death grip we had back in the day but more of a controlling scissor) but the arm was bent so his wrist was behind his head with the top wrestler grabbing that wrist. It seems to a growing trend with the power half... right hand half, grabbing the opponent right wrist.

My main point was stop the match. The refs main point seemed to be, "Why? It's a legal move." But when my wrestler has belted out those type of screams, that should be your answer. Just sayin'.

have to agree with cruiser with not wrestling them a second time in less than a day would have honestly been pointless

Varsityfan32 wrote: have to agree with cruiser with not wrestling them a second time in less than a day would have honestly been pointless

How far apart do two matches have to be to not be pointless? Is two days enough? Is a week? A month?

How is it pointless to wrestle the same opponent twice in less than a day when the same thing happens at Bracket tournaments every week. As I said earlier, it's not uncommon for opponents to wrestle in the first or second round of a tourney and then meet again in the consolations. And, as pointed out to me today, all too often the results reverse...the wrestler who won in the championship loses to the same opponent in the conso finals.

I coached a match this year where my wrestler won by fall in the quarters. He was up by four when the fall was called, so it was no fluke. We met the same wrestler for third and he teched us. This all happened in the span of a few hours. Was that match "pointless"?

Varsityfan32 wrote: have to agree with cruiser with not wrestling them a second time in less than a day would have honestly been pointless

A match is a match. One could extend the "pointless" argument to say that practice is pointless since you're wrestling against the same kids every day.

Not when a loss at the sectional tournament has SO MUCH more bearing than a loss at a dual meet tournament or even a mid-season bracket tournament does.

If the result at a tournament has bearing on the next week (ie place top 4 and you wreslte in the District tournament), then you wrestle. That's one (HUGE) difference.

I'm amazed out how many people do not have a dual meet on the Thursday before a sectional tournament? Or even the Friday before in order to get a pound? I look across the state and don't see it. Now, take that figure/stat and question why they don't wrestle a team that will be at their sectional!

Add to all of this the fact that we would have MUCH RATHER been wrestling the week before and practicing that Thursday, Friday and Saturday and it becomes a very easy choice... for our staff. Others staffs might see it differently. And that's fine with me.

I have to join the Cruiser camp on this one. Please don't take this the wrong way, but wouldn't "most" of the Pick N wrestlers be favored in match-ups with the Groveport kids? If I am an underdog, I'm going to get one chance (at sectionals) to upset the perceived favorite. If you wrestle X number of times, the favorite is going to win most of the time......

But this is sectionals.....get knocked out and you go home. Just think if Pick N/Groveport did wrestle the dual in question.....and take it a little further and think of a scenario where a Cruiser wrestler DID pull an upset or two. What do you think would happen if they were to meet again on Sat in Sectionals?

An underdog may only have just so a few bullets in his gun....why waste them in a meaningless weather induced make-up?.....especially if he already had to fire a bullett or two in the previous 24 hours ??

Just sayin....

cruiser_96 wrote: Not when a loss at the sectional tournament has SO MUCH more bearing than a loss at a dual meet tournament or even a mid-season bracket tournament does.

If the result at a tournament has bearing on the next week (ie place top 4 and you wreslte in the District tournament), then you wrestle. That's one (HUGE) difference.

I'm amazed out how many people do not have a dual meet on the Thursday before a sectional tournament? Or even the Friday before in order to get a pound? I look across the state and don't see it. Now, take that figure/stat and question why they don't wrestle a team that will be at their sectional!

Add to all of this the fact that we would have MUCH RATHER been wrestling the week before and practicing that Thursday, Friday and Saturday and it becomes a very easy choice... for our staff. Others staffs might see it differently. And that's fine with me.

I am sorry I brought it up.

you guys took what I said out of context I was referring to the match being pointless compared to sectionals its one dual its not gonna decide who goes to state like sectionals. If cruiser wants to only wrestle two of his kids thats his choice just live with it and wait till sectionals if you want to wrestle his kids so bad

Bdad: you are fine. A lot of this principles behind practice thought and discussion... Why we do what we do sort of thing. I think these last two pages have been great!

It - on a much lower level - reminds me of the discussions I read on ohiowrestling.net with Rex Holman. He thre to five posts on philosophies of wrestling. Great stuff.

To me, that is what this has been... Getting answers or perspectives of why someone has done what they have done. I ask other coaches their feelings or attitudes on stuff all the time!!! Ask them, they'll tell you i'm sure!

Just wanting thoughts andopinions concerning the sport and coaching.

Varsity32: I got what you meant and tried restating it in the first line of my last post.

Varsityfan32 wrote: you guys took what I said out of context I was referring to the match being pointless compared to sectionals its one dual its not gonna decide who goes to state like sectionals.

Then isn't every match pointless other than Sectionals, Districts and State? Using that logic, there would be no duals and no regular season tournaments. Why would you wrestle any dual against a team that you may see during the State Tournament process? You scheduled it, you weighed in nine wrestlers, you wrestle them. That's the sport.

Dad4Sports wrote: I have to join the Cruiser camp on this one. Please don't take this the wrong way, but wouldn't "most" of the Pick N wrestlers be favored in match-ups with the Groveport kids? If I am an underdog, I'm going to get one chance (at sectionals) to upset the perceived favorite. If you wrestle X number of times, the favorite is going to win most of the time......

But this is sectionals.....get knocked out and you go home. Just think if Pick N/Groveport did wrestle the dual in question.....and take it a little further and think of a scenario where a Cruiser wrestler DID pull an upset or two. What do you think would happen if they were to meet again on Sat in Sectionals?

An underdog may only have just so a few bullets in his gun....why waste them in a meaningless weather induced make-up?.....especially if he already had to fire a bullett or two in the previous 24 hours ??

Just sayin....

Again, given that logic why would you ever wrestle an opponent from your Division? If you only have one shot to pull the big upset why would wrestle any teams in DI, considering that you may see them somewhere down the line. Come to think of it, why did Groveport even lace 'em up for the Thursday dual? I mean, they were going to see this team at Sectionals and they only have one shot at the big upset. Using that line of thinking they should have forfeited the matches on Thursday as well. You know, save it for Sectionals.

If I don't wrestle in the Marion Harding tournament can I go to the district tournament?

If I don't place at the heralded Cruiser Invitational, can I still wrestle in the District tournament?

If I fail to wrestle at all at the Watkins Memorial Dual meet tournament can I still qualifiy for Districts?

While the answer to ALL 3 of these is technically yes, we'd all agree that if you do not wrestle is lowers your mat time giving you valuable live situations with those you rarely see. We've had that (valuable mat experience). Some as many as 30 matches. now it comes down to timing. It is a timing issue!!! Timing!!! Why don't people wrestle duals on Thursday or Friday before the sectional tournament?????? TIMING!!!!!!!!!!!!


One last thing... I f I fail to place in the top 4 or even 5 at the sectional tournament, can I advance to the district tournament???

The answer is no, so we all see the difference between the sectional tournament and all other tournaments prior to mid-Feb.

OK, so I'm thinking the decision was about timing.

With that in mind, do you mean timing between the first dual and the second or do you mean timing between the second dual and Sectionals?

And, if timing is such a big factor, why did you schedule the Watkins Memorial Dual Meet Tournament the week before Sectionals?

This is getting a little heated! WOO crank up the AC in this joint! lol

USMC: Not at all.

bitter: In the time period of 8 days prior to the sectional tournament we received excellent competition with Watkins Memorial, Dublin Scioto, Licking Valley, Heath and Pickerington North. That's 5 matches. Great. Now, as we move forward, it's all about honing skill sets to advance to the next level.

If we had to do over again, I'm not 100% sure we schedule the meet. Who knows, we may have, but I doubt it. I talked to a coach during last week and he said that their team had never wrestled in competition this close to the sectional tournament. To which I responded, there is a first time for everything.

...and now, perhaps, a last time for some things.

Just saying.

cruiser_96 wrote: Why don't people wrestle duals on Thursday or Friday before the sectional tournament?????? TIMING!!!!!!!!!!!!

I may be wrong on this, but I think the OHSAA wresting regular season ends on the Saturday before Sectionals. I'm not sure you can wrestle a duals on Thursday or Friday before Sectionals.

Really... we had a dual scheduled, uhhh, rescheduled for today and now they have rescheduled the reschedule of the rescheduled dual for Thursday. I would assume they would know not to do this. we were hoping for Friday so that the sectional would get an extra pound, but it was not to be. Again, due to snow and forfeits (incomplete line ups) he has not competed since 1/23. I'm worried about knocking the rust off. Timing is right.

hizzmuther wrote: Really... we had a dual scheduled, uhhh, rescheduled for today and now they have rescheduled the reschedule of the rescheduled dual for Thursday. I would assume they would know not to do this. we were hoping for Friday so that the sectional would get an extra pound, but it was not to be. Again, due to snow and forfeits (incomplete line ups) he has not competed since 1/23. I'm worried about knocking the rust off. Timing is right.

he got a little rust knocked off today in practice