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Sectional Seeding for Individuals

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ Sectional Seeding for Individuals
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Feb 24, 2015 7:12 PM
BTW: Coaches were not involved in this decision. I mean, other than being told, "This is how you're going to do it this year."

One coach asked how all this came about. The gentleman stated, "We voted on it ten days ago." ...smh.
Feb 24, 2015 7:12pm
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Dust_E_Roads

Senior Member

752 posts
Feb 24, 2015 7:12 PM
cruiser_96;1707901 wrote:No. You're not missing anything. Coaches are pretty much up in arms about it.
Cruiser (or others) -- sincere question, what is the main difference between this year's process and last year's? What is the beef? (Reader's Digest version is fine.)
Feb 24, 2015 7:12pm
wraith51's avatar

wraith51

Senior Member

386 posts
Feb 24, 2015 7:37 PM
Dust_E_Roads;1707914 wrote:Cruiser (or others) -- sincere question, what is the main difference between this year's process and last year's? What is the beef? (Reader's Digest version is fine.)
Difference is who and what can be challenged for seeds and being able to pick your line are the biggest difference. Also when you have a kid go to random draw you still had a choice in line but it was a more limited choice, now the random draw is to draw the actual line and no choice anymore.
Feb 24, 2015 7:37pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Feb 24, 2015 7:42 PM
To start, not factoring in quality wins or strength of schedule for seeding purposes is a bit lacking in the common sense department for me. As a guy I know has said repeatedly - your forfeit holds the exact same weight as my beating a state qualifier.

Factor in the fact that this process was brought about about one month prior to the sectional tournaments AND that the coaches had ZERO say makes things seem "hinky" to me. (The Fugitive reference.)

Aside from those two sources of contention, a good number of kids are locks to make it to districts. Another group of kids...maybe next year is their shot. But the rest - they are subject to having that one match that their coach has been harping about all year. And they would normally get to that line on the bracket thanks to their coach selecting their route. Giving a kid the chance to succeed - is that not the job of the coach??? Let me, at a minimum, add one more layer to setting my kid up for success.
Feb 24, 2015 7:42pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 24, 2015 7:57 PM
The biggest difference in my mind is that the seeding process is consistent across the State. It's now the same for all wrestlers working towards getting to Columbus.
Feb 24, 2015 7:57pm
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headlock165

Senior Member

198 posts
Feb 24, 2015 7:58 PM
Cruiser, I believe we had a discussion about this very same topic the day (or day after) it was brought to light via email. I couldn't agree more with every reason you just stated. Quality wins used to mean something. At some point, common sense should prevail when bracketing. Coaching can be a fun and rewarding experience. But, with all of the yearly (or mid-season) rule changes, it has its share of headaches. If it's not broke...
Feb 24, 2015 7:58pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Feb 24, 2015 8:10 PM
Con_Alma;1707923 wrote:The biggest difference in my mind is that the seeding process is consistent across the State. It's now the same for all wrestlers working towards getting to Columbus.
In all fairness, if every sectional gets to pick their site, and gets to have a seeding meeting, all sectionals across the state have the same options afforded them, and thus, it's uniform.
Feb 24, 2015 8:10pm
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headlock165

Senior Member

198 posts
Feb 24, 2015 8:15 PM
On a lighter note, this could put an end to topics/posts regarding "Favorite Comments/Arguments Heard At Seeding Meetings". That might sting the most. When making the decision to put a halt to seeding meetings, they obviously weren't looking out for the little people.
Feb 24, 2015 8:15pm
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Cadillak

Member

35 posts
Feb 24, 2015 8:24 PM
It is too bad that quality wins do not mean anything for the kids with no criteria. You would be hard pressed to find a team that wrestled a tougher schedule than ours in the central district (CC...HS). We have several solid kids with so-so records. Hopefully wrestling that type of schedule pays off!
Feb 24, 2015 8:24pm
K

KSU55

Member

36 posts
Feb 24, 2015 8:34 PM
Cadillak;1707931 wrote:It is too bad that quality wins do not mean anything for the kids with no criteria. You would be hard pressed to find a team that wrestled a tougher schedule than ours in the central district (CC...HS). We have several solid kids with so-so records. Hopefully wrestling that type of schedule pays off!
I think you can put Marysville and OLib in the same boat. I think all 3 separated themselves in the schedule department. That should be rewarded not penalized.
Feb 24, 2015 8:34pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Feb 24, 2015 8:54 PM
No. We saw your match with another team. We'd crush you.

;) ;) ;)
Feb 24, 2015 8:54pm
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Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 24, 2015 9:05 PM
Con_Alma;1707923 wrote:The biggest difference in my mind is that the seeding process is consistent across the State. It's now the same for all wrestlers working towards getting to Columbus.
But that's the point...it's not! Sectionals are not using the exact same criteria...and the Millbury Lake D3 sectional is having the traditional coaches seed meeting on Thursday night. The playing field is far from level...
Feb 24, 2015 9:05pm
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Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 24, 2015 9:13 PM
Cadillak;1707931 wrote:It is too bad that quality wins do not mean anything for the kids with no criteria. You would be hard pressed to find a team that wrestled a tougher schedule than ours in the central district (CC...HS). We have several solid kids with so-so records. Hopefully wrestling that type of schedule pays off!
At the last couple of tournaments I've seen some wrestlers with outstanding records get pounded by kids with records slightly north of .500. The schedule will pay off, but why should you be penalized for it in the seeding criteria?
Feb 24, 2015 9:13pm
USMCdevil2005's avatar

USMCdevil2005

Senior Member

950 posts
Feb 24, 2015 9:37 PM
It wasn't broke before ....... So why try and fix it! In the words of Whitey Morgan " If it aint Broke, Don't Fix IT!"

Yes the seeding meeting may take longer and may have some bickering and fighting amongst coaches, but like cruiser said our goal is to give our kids that "Opportunity" to succeed.
Feb 24, 2015 9:37pm
C

Cadillak

Member

35 posts
Feb 24, 2015 9:46 PM
Dad4sports that is exactly what I'm talking about! I was trying to find a silver lining...
Feb 24, 2015 9:46pm
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Dust_E_Roads

Senior Member

752 posts
Feb 25, 2015 7:37 AM
OK, thanks guys. Good explanations.
Feb 25, 2015 7:37am
8

80baby

Senior Member

193 posts
Feb 25, 2015 8:51 AM
I've read a lot of post and e-mails where coaches are expressing their dislike for the new seeding process and I agree with some and disagree with others. Let's face it things aren't uniformed around the state with the sectional's to district process. For instance How many other districts rank their teams then have a draw meeting to pick their sectional site? How many other sectionals are two day sectionals? How many sectionals had a written seeding criteria and FOLLOWED IT? If everyone where doing the same thing then OHSAA wouldn't have step in and mandated change. It sucks that we can no longer pick a line for our kids and with that some kids that should get out won't. Wait a minute that's already happening under our current system here in the CD. Regardless of what happens there are going to be people that don't like the change. As coaches we should come together and draw up our request for adjustments to the seeding criteria and submit it and see what happens. I think current season head to head wins should override criteria only if that kid hasn't lost to someone else in their sectional. Other than that we shall adapt and overcome.

On another note I know that in the Trackwrestling tournament program coaches input their roster based on seeding criteria. After the roster window closes another window is open for coaches to input head to head wins for each weight class. The program will adjust the seeds accordingly and move the winner up to replace the higher seed and everyone else is bumped down. As for a kid with a lower winning percentage being the better wrestler well I tell my kids "you have to prove it on the mat".
Feb 25, 2015 8:51am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 25, 2015 10:18 AM
Dad4Sports;1707948 wrote:But that's the point...it's not! Sectionals are not using the exact same criteria...and the Millbury Lake D3 sectional is having the traditional coaches seed meeting on Thursday night. The playing field is far from level...
I wasn't aware of that. That's unfortunate. I'm still hoping for the day that the entire State uses the same criteria to begin the run to the podium in Columbus. I thought maybe we were one step closer with these new mandates.
Feb 25, 2015 10:18am
wraith51's avatar

wraith51

Senior Member

386 posts
Feb 25, 2015 10:42 AM
I have no issue with the new criteria, my issue is the lack of uniformity. My team is a central district team but our sectional is in the east district who has a couple extra criteria added that's not part of the central criteria. The central teams are heavily outnumbered when it comes to a coach's vote for seed criteria, so having the set criteria from OHSAA gives my guys a fighting chance at a decent seed rather than trying to convince a group of coaches I never see that my kid's wins are worth consideration over yours and vice versa.
Feb 25, 2015 10:42am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 25, 2015 10:48 AM
wraith51;1708096 wrote:I have no issue with the new criteria, my issue is the lack of uniformity. ...
Amen. This has been my contention for several years now.
Feb 25, 2015 10:48am
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snugglyhippo

Senior Member

272 posts
Feb 25, 2015 12:39 PM
To hell with all doing it the RIGHT way, let's just make sure we all do it the SAME way.

This is the most asinine piece of twisted logic I could ever possibly conceive. Try and apply this to other things in your life or society, and watch as the comic gold is mined before your eyes...
Feb 25, 2015 12:39pm
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Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 25, 2015 9:04 PM
wraith51;1708096 wrote:I have no issue with the new criteria, my issue is the lack of uniformity. My team is a central district team but our sectional is in the east district who has a couple extra criteria added that's not part of the central criteria. The central teams are heavily outnumbered when it comes to a coach's vote for seed criteria, so having the set criteria from OHSAA gives my guys a fighting chance at a decent seed rather than trying to convince a group of coaches I never see that my kid's wins are worth consideration over yours and vice versa.
I hadn't thought of that. The CD teams that got shipped East definitely have an uphill climb if there are any coaches seeding challenges!
Feb 25, 2015 9:04pm
wraith51's avatar

wraith51

Senior Member

386 posts
Feb 25, 2015 9:15 PM
Dad4Sports;1708375 wrote:I hadn't thought of that. The CD teams that got shipped East definitely have an uphill climb if there are any coaches seeding challenges!
Last year was a joke, most often the coach's vote went 10 east to 4 central whenever it was an east vs central kid. Sandy Valley's coach and Coshocton's coach would vote central from time to time.

This year many of us have at least common opponents to go by even if we don't have true head to head.
Feb 25, 2015 9:15pm
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Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 25, 2015 9:17 PM
wraith51;1708378 wrote:Last year was a joke, most often the coach's vote went 10 east to 4 central whenever it was an east vs central kid. Sandy Valley's coach and Coshocton's coach would vote central from time to time.

This year many of us have at least common opponents to go by even if we don't have true head to head.
Good luck....hope these coaches vote more fairly this year! Doubt it though...
Feb 25, 2015 9:17pm
wraith51's avatar

wraith51

Senior Member

386 posts
Feb 25, 2015 9:49 PM
Dad4Sports;1708380 wrote:Good luck....hope these coaches vote more fairly this year! Doubt it though...
Thank you, much appreciated, I hope they do too.
Feb 25, 2015 9:49pm