Ohio Chatter
Ohio Chatter

Forums

All Threads Serious Business Sports Politics Archive Pick 'ems Wordio
Log In Create Account

2014 Cleveland Browns Offseason Thread

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ 2014 Cleveland Browns Offseason Thread
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
May 2, 2014 10:51 AM
Classyposter58;1611900 wrote:Does anyone else on here think Clowney is going to be a huge bust?
Do you mean his bust that will be in the HoF in about 20 years?


WIll he live up to the hype?
Doubt it.

Will he be a bust?
Doubt it.


Depends on what he ends up being. OLB or a DE? OLB he will be asked to drop more in coverage whereas a DE he would rush the passer more.

I think he has the tools to be more of a OLB in a 3-4 and be able to rush the passer more than in the 4-3. They may want him to get bigger to be an NFL DE, which would hurt his quickness/speed.
May 2, 2014 10:51am
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
May 2, 2014 10:54 AM
Classyposter58;1611900 wrote:Does anyone else on here think Clowney is going to be a huge bust?
Not unless you put the expectation level at something absurd like saying "the overall #1 pick should be a first ballot HOF type of player".
May 2, 2014 10:54am
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
May 2, 2014 10:58 AM
queencitybuckeye;1611928 wrote:Not unless you put the expectation level at something absurd like saying "the overall #1 pick should be a first ballot HOF type of player".
Since 1970, 6 overall #1's have made it to the HoF, and just 13 total.


We can add in Peyton as one of them as well. I dont know......will Orlando Pace make it?
May 2, 2014 10:58am
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
May 2, 2014 11:41 AM
like_that;1611910 wrote:We take robinson at 4 and a QB at 26, I am willing to bet we will all be happy in a couple years with the 2014 draft.
Would depend on the QB.

If they get that right, assuming they take one, the draft is pretty much a success no matter what else they do.
May 2, 2014 11:41am
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
May 2, 2014 11:43 AM
thavoice;1611930 wrote:Since 1970, 6 overall #1's have made it to the HoF, and just 13 total.


We can add in Peyton as one of them as well. I dont know......will Orlando Pace make it?

Pace is a lock.
May 2, 2014 11:43am
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
May 2, 2014 12:04 PM
Mulva;1611954 wrote:Pace is a lock.
Easily.
May 2, 2014 12:04pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
May 2, 2014 12:05 PM
Mulva;1611954 wrote:Pace is a lock.
Figured as much. Could not remember when he retired.
May 2, 2014 12:05pm
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
May 2, 2014 1:00 PM
thavoice;1611930 wrote:Since 1970, 6 overall #1's have made it to the HoF, and just 13 total.


We can add in Peyton as one of them as well. I dont know......will Orlando Pace make it?
It's interesting that as combines and other methods have become more popular ways to evaluate potential, the selection process at #1 has actually become worse. Too often the questions of "can the kid play football?" and "is the kid a winner?" are overlooked because someone can run 40 yd in a straight line faster (something that very rarely happens in football)
May 2, 2014 1:00pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
May 2, 2014 1:07 PM
Al Bundy;1611985 wrote:It's interesting that as combines and other methods have become more popular ways to evaluate potential, the selection process at #1 has actually become worse. Too often the questions of "can the kid play football?" and "is the kid a winner?" are overlooked because someone can run 40 yd in a straight line faster (something that very rarely happens in football)
This. I've never heard someone calling a game say, "Well, if he were 6'2" instead of 6'1 3/4, he would have made that play and saved the game".
May 2, 2014 1:07pm
shook_17's avatar

shook_17

Senior Member

3,023 posts
May 2, 2014 1:13 PM
like_that;1611910 wrote:We take robinson at 4 and a QB at 26, I am willing to bet we will all be happy in a couple years with the 2014 draft.
THIS
May 2, 2014 1:13pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
May 2, 2014 1:26 PM
Al Bundy;1611985 wrote:It's interesting that as combines and other methods have become more popular ways to evaluate potential, the selection process at #1 has actually become worse. Too often the questions of "can the kid play football?" and "is the kid a winner?" are overlooked because someone can run 40 yd in a straight line faster (something that very rarely happens in football)
Lets check that out: I know PBs may not be the best guide, but is at least something to look at.

1990's top picks.

27 combined Pro Bowls by 90's top picks. 5 failed to make one pro bowl.

1980's top picks.:
40 combined prob bowls. 2 failed to make one.

1970's top picks
19 combined prob bowls. 5 failed to make one.



2000-2009 top picks
17 combined pro bowls and 4 failed to make one. I think Stafford has a chance to make one yet making it down to 3 failed to make it and the overall # cannot be valued quite yet.
May 2, 2014 1:26pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
May 2, 2014 1:30 PM
At the very least, it's hard to make a case for the "more is better" approach to talent evaluation.
May 2, 2014 1:30pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
May 2, 2014 1:36 PM
queencitybuckeye;1611996 wrote:At the very least, it's hard to make a case for the "more is better" approach to talent evaluation.
To a point I think teams go out of the way to find reasons talk themselves out of guys when they get to all these various ways to evaluate talent. Guys are preparing for the combines and those drills alot more, script out and work like crazy for their pro days and their agents/handlers are "teaching to the tests" taht they know owners/teams are going to look for.
Evaluating talent in all these scripted ways is like valuing a woman's true beauty after she is all done up and airbrushed instead of how they look when the roll outta bed in the morning.
You may not get a true picture.
I still think the #1 way is to view game tape, and use the rest to supplement it.
May 2, 2014 1:36pm
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
May 2, 2014 5:09 PM
thavoice;1611993 wrote:Lets check that out: I know PBs may not be the best guide, but is at least something to look at.

1990's top picks.

27 combined Pro Bowls by 90's top picks. 5 failed to make one pro bowl.

1980's top picks.:
40 combined prob bowls. 2 failed to make one.

1970's top picks
19 combined prob bowls. 5 failed to make one.



2000-2009 top picks
17 combined pro bowls and 4 failed to make one. I think Stafford has a chance to make one yet making it down to 3 failed to make it and the overall # cannot be valued quite yet.
I would have to look more into, but I believe these stats are probably very skewed. It became much easier to make a pro bowl over time because the top players often didn't go and rosters became expanded. Look how often we alternates going at multiple positions.
May 2, 2014 5:09pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
May 2, 2014 6:05 PM
Al Bundy;1612058 wrote:I would have to look more into, but I believe these stats are probably very skewed. It became much easier to make a pro bowl over time because the top players often didn't go and rosters became expanded. Look how often we alternates going at multiple positions.
Since 2000, only Alex Smith might have been an alternate.
May 2, 2014 6:05pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
May 2, 2014 10:28 PM
like_that;1611910 wrote:We take robinson at 4 and a QB at 26, I am willing to bet we will all be happy in a couple years with the 2014 draft.
LOL. We are always oh so happy 2 years down the road. Yeah...let's draft a lineman at 4. SMFH.
May 2, 2014 10:28pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
May 2, 2014 10:30 PM
HighRoller74;1611792 wrote:Tl:dr version of above post.

That's kipers final Big Board. Locker is 25, and was still drafted 8th.

In other words FW....wrong again.
Kiper had him as the number one overall pick before his senior season. He based it on his stellar 54% completion rate.
May 2, 2014 10:30pm
Terry_Tate's avatar

Terry_Tate

Senior Member

7,606 posts
May 2, 2014 10:48 PM
Footwedge;1612135 wrote:Kiper had him as the number one overall pick before his senior season. He based it on his stellar 54% completion rate.
So, the number one pick is closer to 8th overall than 25th, and you're trying to say that was worse when it was actually closer to what really happened? Good call.
May 2, 2014 10:48pm
Lovejoy1984's avatar

Lovejoy1984

Senior Member

5,277 posts
May 2, 2014 11:04 PM
Footwedge;1612135 wrote:Kiper had him as the number one overall pick before his senior season. He based it on his stellar 54% completion rate.
And by the end of the process he had him down to #25, and he was selected 8th.

Really not sure why you're so stuck on initial projections, when in all other aspects of life, they final projection/quote/offer is what matters is terms of forecasting.

Then, you gotta go with what actually happens. He actually underrated Locker when you look strictly at the numbers.
May 2, 2014 11:04pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
May 3, 2014 12:52 AM
I'm 100% sure FW thinks Kiper is predicting how they fare in the NFL, not how they will be drafted.

Ive heard him say this year already, the Vikings have to get better at QB and thus will draft one, but he doesn't think it will work out cause he doesn't see a fit for them. He doesn't otedict how shit will go down in the NFL, just iownhe thinks the draft will play out.

He won on Locker, versus everyone else lol
May 3, 2014 12:52am
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
May 3, 2014 1:00 AM
Terry_Tate;1612144 wrote:So, the number one pick is closer to 8th overall than 25th, and you're trying to say that was worse when it was actually closer to what really happened? Good call.
Pay attention...one last time. Draft guru Mel Kiper Jr. had Locker as the number one overall pick prior to his senior year...and he said that after reviewing 3 years of shit performance at Washington. I'm done explaining it to you.

And the fact that he was actually picked number 8 overall just goes to show you the BREOWNS are not the exclusive member of idiocy.
May 3, 2014 1:00am
Terry_Tate's avatar

Terry_Tate

Senior Member

7,606 posts
May 3, 2014 1:15 AM
Laley23;1612162 wrote:I'm 100% sure FW thinks Kiper is predicting how they fare in the NFL, not how they will be drafted.

Ive heard him say this year already, the Vikings have to get better at QB and thus will draft one, but he doesn't think it will work out cause he doesn't see a fit for them. He doesn't otedict how shit will go down in the NFL, just iownhe thinks the draft will play out.

He won on Locker, versus everyone else lol
Yep, lol, it's just hilarious to me that Kiper apparently did the best at predicting where he would go in the Draft and that's being turned into a negative.
May 3, 2014 1:15am
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
May 3, 2014 10:14 AM
Footwedge is literally the dumbest browns fan ever.
May 3, 2014 10:14am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
May 3, 2014 1:51 PM
SportsAndLady;1612206 wrote:Footwedge is literally the dumbest person ever.

FIFY, he's proven it over and over again. I'll never forget percentiles
May 3, 2014 1:51pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
May 3, 2014 1:54 PM
There s hope after all. Today's PD had Shanahan's take on Manziel. But more importantly, Pettine said the following....

Coach Mike Pettine said Shanahan will have more input on the quarterback decision than he will "as he should. I’m going to defer to an expert. I can say what a good one looks like, but there are times I don’t know I can say why he’s good. There are things you’re looking for, but as far as the technical part of it, I’ll certainly defer to him and (quarterbacks coach) Dowell (Loggains) and as far as what they’re looking for in the system.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/cleveland_browns_oc_kyle_shana_5.html
May 3, 2014 1:54pm