And as I type that, I stumble upon mulva's link with the article on it, saying he left the team...which I didn't know.

Basically everywhere I've looked it's said "2nd round or undrafted" so he's at the very least being seen outside the Big 12.

Yue...wow.

SportsAndLady wrote: And as I type that, I stumble upon mulva's link with the article on it, saying he left the team...which I didn't know.

Basically everywhere I've looked it's said "2nd round or undrafted" so he's at the very least being seen outside the Big 12.

meaning there's like a 30% chance he doesn't get drafted.

I'd also say that of the 70% chance he's drafted there's about a 50% chance that regardless of when he gets drafted he'll play out the next 3-4 years in the d-league before realizing he won't make it in the pros.

Thus making se-alum's point.

not a slight to him. but i wouldn't be confident enough to forego a free education for at least another year to take a huge chance with such a huge potential for failure. another year would help solidify how he projects to the next level, plus if it doesn't work out, he'd 1 year closer to achieving a degree in the future.

I won't expect much from him.

In all fairness to him, and his facebook status, he doesn't seem like the kind that really values an education and a degree.

j_crazy wrote:

SportsAndLady wrote: And as I type that, I stumble upon mulva's link with the article on it, saying he left the team...which I didn't know.

Basically everywhere I've looked it's said "2nd round or undrafted" so he's at the very least being seen outside the Big 12.

meaning there's like a 30% chance he doesn't get drafted.

I'd also say that of the 70% chance he's drafted there's about a 50% chance that regardless of when he gets drafted he'll play out the next 3-4 years in the d-league before realizing he won't make it in the pros.

Thus making se-alum's point.

not a slight to him. but i wouldn't be confident enough to forego a free education for at least another year to take a huge chance with such a huge potential for failure. another year would help solidify how he projects to the next level, plus if it doesn't work out, he'd 1 year closer to achieving a degree in the future.

I won't expect much from him.

In my defense, I was arguing with Se alum with the false assumption he was putting his name in the draft just to see where he would go, get evaluated, etc. I didn't know he was completely gone from OU.

thedynasty1998 wrote: In all fairness to him, and his facebook status, he doesn't seem like the kind that really values an education and a degree.

So true.

SportsAndLady wrote: In my defense, I was arguing with Se alum with the false assumption he was putting his name in the draft just to see where he would go, get evaluated, etc. I didn't know he was completely gone from OU.

Understood.

FWIW when I think great Big XII players, I think Collins, Aldrich, Henry, Dunn, Clemente. Not Mason-Griffin. I know about him, but he'd be like 8th on my list of PG's in the Big XII.

SportsAndLady wrote:

j_crazy wrote:

SportsAndLady wrote: And as I type that, I stumble upon mulva's link with the article on it, saying he left the team...which I didn't know.

Basically everywhere I've looked it's said "2nd round or undrafted" so he's at the very least being seen outside the Big 12.

meaning there's like a 30% chance he doesn't get drafted.

I'd also say that of the 70% chance he's drafted there's about a 50% chance that regardless of when he gets drafted he'll play out the next 3-4 years in the d-league before realizing he won't make it in the pros.

Thus making se-alum's point.

not a slight to him. but i wouldn't be confident enough to forego a free education for at least another year to take a huge chance with such a huge potential for failure. another year would help solidify how he projects to the next level, plus if it doesn't work out, he'd 1 year closer to achieving a degree in the future.

I won't expect much from him.

In my defense, I was arguing with Se alum with the false assumption he was putting his name in the draft just to see where he would go, get evaluated, etc. I didn't know he was completely gone from OU.

That was my problem, the kid put his eggs in one basket by leaving school.

With all due respect, I don't think he is a kid that can spell education or degree. But it's cool, the hood will welcome him back with open arms.

With all due respect to that kid....have you ever read other players facebooks? They are ALLLLL like that. Its incredible, every (and I hate to say it, but they are mostly black) athlete I am friends with on FB all talk like that on the web. Then I speak with them face to face and they can write perfectly and speak perfect English. Its just the way they escape the public and talk how they grew up talking. Really nothing wrong with it imo.

Im also not sure he will be drafted. But he was a top talent in HS (Top 40 I think) so he already has a lot of people on him for potential. He put up pretty good numbers to suggest that potential will one day be realized.

You and I have different experiences my friend. A lot of them talk like that on FB because they think it's cool... sorta like how young kids think it's cool to smoke cigs. But I've had a lot of athletes in my classes that couldn't speak that well nor write that well. Stupid story, but here goes. I had a class with one of KSU's best football players. I sat behind him and the professor had us exchange papers with the person by us to proof it... it was absolutely horrible. It was 3-4th grade material. I almost circled the whole paper and said try again, but I didn't want my ass beat ha. I had a shit load of players in my summer classes and all I could think of was the picture of the little black kid saying "I has a crayon". They weren't the sharpest tools. I don't hate to say it.. most of the black athletes I've encountered should have never been in college. Tommy Mason Ghetto is just another fool that put all his eggs into one basket.

jpake1 wrote: You and I have different experiences my friend. A lot of them talk like that on FB because they think it's cool... sorta like how young kids think it's cool to smoke cigs. But I've had a lot of athletes in my classes that couldn't speak that well nor write that well. Stupid story, but here goes. I had a class with one of KSU's best football players. I sat behind him and the professor had us exchange papers with the person by us to proof it... it was absolutely horrible. It was 3-4th grade material. I almost circled the whole paper and said try again, but I didn't want my ass beat ha. I had a shit load of players in my summer classes and all I could think of was the picture of the little black kid saying "I has a crayon". They weren't the sharpest tools. I don't hate to say it.. most of the black athletes I've encountered should have never been in college. Tommy Mason Ghetto is just another fool that put all his eggs into one basket.

This.

But in fairness to high level college athletes--a lot of them aren't there because of the education, which is obviously well known by everyone here. But I don't think they necessarily should be. I don't know, I have a different outlook on it than most.

Mason-Griffin apparently had a falling out with OU and Capel. He was gone the second the season ended.

I agree. Some of the guys have no desire to graduate, and I don't blame them. Football players have it harder than basketball players. Basketball guys can screw around for 2 semesters and then say later. A football player has to get his shit together for at least 3 years. However, if you're going to be one of those players that has that 'I'm only here because I have to be here attitude', you better ball hard. If you don't, kiss the NBA/NFL dream goodbye. Then what? Most of the time they don't have a degree to fall back on, and if they were lucky enough to get one, they won't impress enough during interviews. It just always produces a laugh when you see/hear an athlete that is simply DUMB stay eligible. Everybody knows it's a crock of shit. Doesn't matter to me though, it never hurt me. I just get a good laugh from it.

I definitely agree with that. I'm referring to players that go to college like Melo or John Wall--or on the football side of things, Pryor is a good example.

High school is supposed to prepare you for college, college is supposed to prepare you to be a professional. Guys like that are there for one reason--to become a professional athlete, not a businessman or a teacher. There are definitely players who aren't bound for the pro ranks--and you seem them graduate with degrees in most cases. Of course there are some who are there to get to the pros and they don't make it and don't have a degree--shit happens I guess. But either way, they're doing what they're supposed to do--working on preparing for the next level.

The kids do nothing but use the rules to their advantage. If I was John Wall, I wouldn't really care about attending classes either. What's the point?

I wouldn't either. It might be in a player's interest to take some business classes that might help them in the future when they start making bank several different routes. But I'd do enough to stay eligible and try not to tarnish my name.

Truth is, the NBA will offers and pays for all of the business/money management classes once you are in the program.

The only concern would be leaving the program in good academic standing, so at least pass your classes, but many of these guys have zero allegiance for the school they attend for a single semester anyway.

I do find it interesting that Xavier Henry, with his family ties to KU and growing up respecting the school, he would basically fail out of the 2nd semester and hurt KU's APR. That's lame IMO.

Yep, I wouldn't either. He isn't there for that and IMO, certain players SHOULD get a break from people if they aren't there for the degree. They get what? A free ride? Big deal. They make way more for the university than what the university gives to them, they don't get to experience the same college life that everyone else does, they live in a chaotic environment, they're paraded around as BASKETBALL players not students. Especially a player like John Wall at a school like Kentucky. He's a household name, dude is a freshman in college. He's under pressure that most people don't ever have--you might think it's a pressure situation to get an A on your paper, but if you get a C you don't have thousands of people commenting about your performance. I'm fine with the rules about being eligible, but I mean if the season ends and you're going to the NBA--I don't think anyone should have a problem with them not going to class. Most of us can't imagine how busy John Wall will be between this coming weekend and the NBA draft. School shouldn't be his #1 priority when he's set to make millions within the next few years. He's worked as hard for that as people have for their 4.0's.

And I ABSOLUTELY don't feel bad for the school. I hate when people say shit like that--or talk about their graduation rates and shit. They know when a player is going to be that way, but screw the school, what makes them so special? They take the kid anyways and the pimp him while he's there--they take full advantage of it. More so than any of these athletes.

SQ_Crazies wrote: And I ABSOLUTELY don't feel bad for the school. I hate when people say shit like that--or talk about their graduation rates and shit. They know when a player is going to be that way, but screw the school, what makes them so special? They take the kid anyways and the pimp him while he's there--they take full advantage of it. More so than any of these athletes.

Maybe the NCAA should just realize the rules are being bypassed and change them. That might be a bit over their head though...

No, it's over a lot of fans heads though.

The NCAA will do nothing about this, they benefit from it as much as anything.

But I mean, my basic stance on this issue is that it isn't a problem and there doesn't need to be anything done about it--I know that's not the popular opinion, but I think people blow this up into a bigger deal than it is.

Nah I definitely agree with you. Both sides get what they want out of the deal. It wouldn't continue if that wasn't the case.

The problem is, every year around this time we get people bitching about how so and so isn't ready to leave, and how this coach should stop recruiting these guys, etc...

Bottom line is both sides serve a purpose, and both have their roles in the process. Now, whether it's a smart strategy to use is another story.

Yep, people need to quit watching the tournament and getting a boner and then bitching about shit like this.

It's a non issue.

And it is a smart strategy. Because if they made it like football, where you have to stay for 3 or 4 years, watch Europe fill up with teenage American basketball players. When blowing out a knee is a 10 million dollar difference in guaranteed money--they're going to find the fastest route to the league if they're good enough. If they made them stay in college it would only hurt the NCAA, hurt kids that would then go overseas, and not allow the country to watch the best amateur basketball players play here. Home grown talent taking off for some other place in large numbers? Watering down college basketball. I don't think anyone wants that.

The NBA made the rule, there is nothing in the college rule book that says you can't drop out and enter the draft after your freshman year--so they're not doing anything wrong and coaches that recruit those players aren't doing anything wrong either. If it changed at all I wish they'd just let high school kids back into the league. I understand why they don't, but it's on the franchise to make sure they know what they're getting and it's on the player to know if he's really ready or not.