1995 UNC had 3 and 4
1996 Kentucky had 3 in first round
1998 UNC, Arizona, and Kansas had 2 in first round
1999 Duke had 4 first rounders, all Lottery, 1, 11, 13, 14
2002 Duke had 2 and 3
2004 UCONN had 2 and 3
2005 UNC had 2, 5, 13, 14 (all Lottery)
2007 Florida had 3, 7, 9 (All Lottery)
2008 UCLA had 4 and 5

That was a very quick run through of first round drafts starting in 19995.

I dont think it is unreasonable at all to think Cal is going to have more talent (based on draft positions or stars or whatever) than he has this year. I didnt even go into previous years or grades of players. So I dont know if a team like UNC in 1995 and 1998 had overlapping players on a team, etc.

Laley23 wrote:

That was a very quick run through of first round drafts starting in 19995.

Wow, you can see in the future.

cats gone wild wrote:

centralbucksfan wrote:

SportsAndLady wrote:

centralbucksfan wrote: Its doubtful Cal will ever have more talent then he had this year.

ehh, that's definitely debatable.

I mean look at the roster for next year, they'll have 2 5star players in the starting lineup, and 2 on the bench...on top of some good players they'll return from this year.

He had quality this year, but not the most quantity..he'll have that in the future after a year or two already there...and the quality will never stop.

How often has one college team, had 2 top 5 picks in the NBA?? And 3 within the top 15? And some say Patterson could be lottery.(I happen to think he is not as good as some think).
And if Bledsoe decided to come out, he'd be a 1st rd pic as well. That is 4 of 5 starters that would be first round draft picks in the NBA.

If Patterson is a lottery pick and was considered a first rounder last year, AND he had to share his talent with 3 other first rounders (possibly 4 with Orton) how do you not think he is as good as others think? He cant help it he was surrounded by great players. He did pretty good the past couple seasons and his stats were pretty good this year.

I never said he wasn't any good. He has had a good solid career at UK thus far. I just don't think he is quite as good as some think he is. I have seen quite a few Pattersons in college basketball. I don't feel he stands out that far above many others. He just doesn't have that wow factor. IMO, never developed into what some thought he would coming out of HS. Good at a few things, not great at any one thing.
As you said yourself, he is pretty good. I think thats the extent of it.
As for the NBA...after the very top part of the draft, there is a significant dropoff and this year is not considered a stellar year as far as the talent coming out.

Laley23 wrote: 1995 UNC had 3 and 4
1996 Kentucky had 3 in first round
1998 UNC, Arizona, and Kansas had 2 in first round
1999 Duke had 4 first rounders, all Lottery, 1, 11, 13, 14
2002 Duke had 2 and 3
2004 UCONN had 2 and 3
2005 UNC had 2, 5, 13, 14 (all Lottery)
2007 Florida had 3, 7, 9 (All Lottery)
2008 UCLA had 4 and 5

That was a very quick run through of first round drafts starting in 19995.

I dont think it is unreasonable at all to think Cal is going to have more talent (based on draft positions or stars or whatever) than he has this year. I didnt even go into previous years or grades of players. So I dont know if a team like UNC in 1995 and 1998 had overlapping players on a team, etc.

Interesting. Good find. I believe most if not all of those were at least final 4 teams as well?
Happens more then I thought, but still not the norm IMO.

centralbucksfan wrote:

Laley23 wrote: 1995 UNC had 3 and 4
1996 Kentucky had 3 in first round
1998 UNC, Arizona, and Kansas had 2 in first round
1999 Duke had 4 first rounders, all Lottery, 1, 11, 13, 14
2002 Duke had 2 and 3
2004 UCONN had 2 and 3
2005 UNC had 2, 5, 13, 14 (all Lottery)
2007 Florida had 3, 7, 9 (All Lottery)
2008 UCLA had 4 and 5

That was a very quick run through of first round drafts starting in 19995.

I dont think it is unreasonable at all to think Cal is going to have more talent (based on draft positions or stars or whatever) than he has this year. I didnt even go into previous years or grades of players. So I dont know if a team like UNC in 1995 and 1998 had overlapping players on a team, etc.

Interesting. Good find. I believe most if not all of those were at least final 4 teams as well?
Happens more then I thought, but still not the norm IMO.

You can't just admit you were wrong, can you?

You never said it was the norm, we were never arguing that...you said it was a rarity, which this list proves its not.

SportsAndLady wrote:

centralbucksfan wrote:

Laley23 wrote: 1995 UNC had 3 and 4
1996 Kentucky had 3 in first round
1998 UNC, Arizona, and Kansas had 2 in first round
1999 Duke had 4 first rounders, all Lottery, 1, 11, 13, 14
2002 Duke had 2 and 3
2004 UCONN had 2 and 3
2005 UNC had 2, 5, 13, 14 (all Lottery)
2007 Florida had 3, 7, 9 (All Lottery)
2008 UCLA had 4 and 5

That was a very quick run through of first round drafts starting in 19995.

I dont think it is unreasonable at all to think Cal is going to have more talent (based on draft positions or stars or whatever) than he has this year. I didnt even go into previous years or grades of players. So I dont know if a team like UNC in 1995 and 1998 had overlapping players on a team, etc.

Interesting. Good find. I believe most if not all of those were at least final 4 teams as well?
Happens more then I thought, but still not the norm IMO.

You can't just admit you were wrong, can you?

You never said it was the norm, we were never arguing that...you said it was a rarity, which this list proves its not.

Wall and Cousins were both FIRST TEAM ALL AMERICANS. First time ever two frosh from same team. Both will be 5 picks. How often has it happened in the history of college basketball?
Even with the above info, its still doesn't happen often at all. Especially with the caliber of player those two are. Some of the above were drafted on potential and never panned out. I'd say Wall and Cousins are going to be VERY good NBA players.
Yes, it has happened more then I thought. But its still pretty rare to have two true frosh that talented, go in the top 5.
If thats wrong, then I am wrong. Kinda like you were with thinking the Big12 was so good this year.

From the Lexington Herald:

John Calipari may find his toughest act is his next one: the encore. Four of Kentucky's five starters, and five of the top six players in Calipari's regular rotation. Only junior-to-be Darius Miller appears to be a sure bet to be wearing whatever uniform Nike has the Cats adorn next season. Not to fear, of course. Calipari gets players. That's his strength, his calling card. He's a master recruiter/motivator, who has a knack for getting the best players -- Derrick Rose to Tyreke Evans to John Wall -- to sign on the bottom line. Yet, given the success produced by his latest collection of talent, even Calipari might have trouble following in his own footsteps.

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/03/29/1201445/john-clay-what-will-calipari-do.html

centralbucksfan wrote: I'd say Wall and Cousins are going to be VERY good NBA players.

Yeah cuz it goes along with your argument...Both Cousins and Wall have the potential to be busts, just like any other player drafted in the NBA draft.

And I wasn't wrong about the Big 12.
2 teams in the Elite 8, and the #1 team in the land 90% of the year, who had a fluke loss to a mid major.

The info I gave wasnt to prove CBF wrong, I just tend to think that a lot of times picks are based on team success. I mean, go back and look at the guys drafted from the list I gave. Few have been good in the NBA.

So my point is....well I dont really have one lol. I just dont think NBA draft position is a good measure of a college teams talent. Will Cal get a more talented team? Maybe. I DOUBT he will get a team with better draft position though....and I would argue that doesnt make this team any more talented than a team say 10 yrs down the road.

I think it's also pretty clear that UK's downfall this year was the OTHER players who didn't have the experience and/or ability to compliment Wall, Cousins and Patterson consistently on a nightly basis.

Look back at the 38 games the Cats played this year and you will see that those 3 guys performed pretty consistently every night, even in the Kentucky losses.

In the loss to WVU:

Wall has 19, 9 and 5
Cousins had 15 and 8
Patterson had 8 and 13

So they combined for 42 points, 30 rebounds and 7 assists, yet lost.

The problem was:

Darius Miller, 0 for 6, 2 points
Eric Bledsoe, 3 for 9, 7 points
Daniel Orton, 0 for 0, 0 points
Darnell Dodson, 2 for 9, 6 points
DeAndre Liggins, 2 for 7, 7 points

So essentially, UK's top 5 guys after the big 3, who usually combine for 31 PPG, went 7 for 31 (22%) from the field and scored 22 points. Myself and many others said it all year, when this group of 5 posts well above their averages, the Cats are nearly impossible to beat, because the big 3 rarely get held down.

As we see, they were well below their averages, took more shots than usual and UK got beat. Quite simple if you ask me. Now, we can debate all day how much of that is the fault of Cal's coaching/gameplan. I happen to think some of it is...so the blame isn't totally off him.