Does anyone else see this happening in Kentucky?

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SportsAndLady

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Mar 28, 2010 11:26 AM
Every now and then there's a big time program in a sport that has a coach who always has good teams, even in some years the best team (Kentucky this year), but the coach can never break through and win the title. The fans get kinda antsy and the organization doesn't want to settle for first place/1 seeds and they want to bring in someone who will win the title and fires the coach...usually leaving them in a worse position than before.

Just to throw out an example or two:
Marty Schottenheimer in San Diego with his 14-2 teams.
Frank Solich at Nebraska.

Does anyone see UK fans, and we all know how they are, getting upset with Cal, that if in 2 or 3 years they still don't have a title but they consistently have top teams, and actually want him out? And do you see UK actually firing him if this is the case?
Mar 28, 2010 11:26am
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dave

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Mar 28, 2010 11:29 AM
no
Mar 28, 2010 11:29am
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centralbucksfan

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Mar 28, 2010 11:35 AM
They were on the brink of firing Tubby Smith. Who did WIN a title, and had an unbelievable SEC record. So yes, if Cal doesn't get it done within a reasonable amount of time....I could certainly see UK firing him. It wouldn't be in 2,3 yrs....but around the 4/5yr mark...you can count on UK fans getting restless. Although, I could see Cal bolting back to the NBA if he starts to feel the heat at UK. Similar to Tubby leaving before UK canned him.
Cal is a "good coach" IMO. But I also feel he is the most overhyped coach. HE has had unbelievable talent at Memphis, and this year at UK...no title yet. His resume' isn't as "great" as many think it is.
He luvs his face on TV and is a top notch bullshitter....thus gets a lot of PR.

But if you don't think UK fans won't turn on Cal..your kidding yourself. They expect nothing less then national titles. Its a bit of a shame as think they are a bit unrealistic in terms of how difficult that is to do. They expect it on a regular basis.
I'll gaurantee there is a lot of unhappy UK fans in Kentucky today and Cal is the main target.
Mar 28, 2010 11:35am
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

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Mar 28, 2010 11:37 AM
no
Mar 28, 2010 11:37am
Speedofsand's avatar

Speedofsand

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Mar 28, 2010 12:44 PM
Cal will quit and run from the next investigation before he loses long enough to get fired at UK
Mar 28, 2010 12:44pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Mar 28, 2010 7:41 PM
If Cals teams keep losing on stupid offense and missed FT's, yes.
Mar 28, 2010 7:41pm
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Cleveland Buck

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Mar 28, 2010 7:48 PM
Speedofsand wrote: Cal will quit and run from the next investigation before he loses long enough to get fired at UK
This. When the NCAA starts poking around at Kentucky he will be off to his next job.
Mar 28, 2010 7:48pm
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hoops23

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Mar 28, 2010 7:50 PM
Which will probably be in the NBA.
Mar 28, 2010 7:50pm
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cbus4life

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Mar 28, 2010 8:01 PM
I could see it happening.
Mar 28, 2010 8:01pm
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osu99

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Mar 28, 2010 10:09 PM
Tubby Smith comes to mind.
Mar 28, 2010 10:09pm
Little Danny's avatar

Little Danny

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Mar 29, 2010 12:06 PM
Tubby had two problems that Cal does not:

1. He followed Rick Pitino. Cats fans had unrealistic expectations of their programs following Pitino's run.
2. He made his son a center piece of the program. Truth be told, Saul should have been playing at the MAC level. Tubby's insistence on starting him at the point really burnt a lot of bridges with UK fans/boosters.
Mar 29, 2010 12:06pm
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just_a_swimmer

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Mar 29, 2010 1:41 PM
They're never going to win a championship if they keep bringing in freshman that are going to leave following one year in college. Teams that do well in the tournament beyond the first couple of rounds seem to be teams that have Jr's and Sr's. When you lose two or three every year to the NBA in my opinion that hurts the program. Always in the rebuilding mode or you have what OSU has no bench.
Mar 29, 2010 1:41pm
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GOONx19

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Mar 29, 2010 4:24 PM
Kentucky will most definitely have a better bench than OSU did this year.

Here's the lineup I see, assuming Bledsoe, Wall, Cousins, and Patterson leave:

Brandon Knight, Freshman PG (5*)
DeAndre Liggins, Junior SG
Darius Miller, Junior SG/SF
C.J. Leslie, Freshman F (5*)
Daniel Orton, Sophomore C

Darnell Dodson, Junior SG
Enes Kanter, Freshman SF/PF (5*)
Stacey Poole, Freshman SF (4.5*)

(possibly)
Doron Lamb, Freshman SG (5*)
Terrence Ross, Freshman SG (4*)
Josh Selby, Freshman PG (5*)
Mar 29, 2010 4:24pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

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Mar 29, 2010 5:11 PM
The problem this year wasn't a team led by Freshman.

It was a roster, that outside of those Freshman, had no real experience.

Patrick Patterson has never played in an NCAA Tournament.
DeAndre Liggins and Darius Miller were two that butted heads seriously with Billy Gillispie.
Everyone was new to Cal's system.

I believe you can win with a few impact Freshman as long as those guys are surrounded by some experience. With Bledsoe, Orton, Miller, Liggins and Dodson possibly back next year and all with a year under Calipari under their belts, the Cats could very well go even further in March. If they get Knight/Selby, Leslie/Jones and Lamb/Ross along with Poole and Kanter the team will be very strong.
Mar 29, 2010 5:11pm
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cats gone wild

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Mar 29, 2010 5:31 PM
Cal will not get ousted at Kentucky. How can UK upgrade in coaches? They cant. They have a coach who has multiple 30 win seasons in a row. UK had the talent to win the title this year but had a horrible game. With next years talent they have a great chance of going to the final 4 and or winning it. He got Memphis there, and they are a smaller name then UK. He will get the recruits he wants and sooner or later he will get a title. Michigan made it to the final 4 with a bunch of freshmen also.

You also got to remember, he had very short time to put this years class together and UK had to start a whole new system. Imagine what he can do now that the UK name is huge again and people who wouldnt of considered UK before now have them on top of their recruit list.

Also, as Az said, these players didnt have NCAA tourney experience and they still have some of BCG's recruits.

The Tubby talk is laughable. He won a title with RP's recruits and he was going down hill quick. He and BCG made UK go from a household name to a Michigan type name (no offense to UM fans). Kentucky would not of became a power house again under Tubby.
Mar 29, 2010 5:31pm
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cats gone wild

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Mar 29, 2010 5:39 PM
I also might add, Tubby got ousted 3 out of his last 4 years in the 2nd round and didnt make the Final 4 in his last 9 years.
Mar 29, 2010 5:39pm
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centralbucksfan

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Mar 29, 2010 5:51 PM
Its doubtful Cal will ever have more talent then he had this year. Wall will be first pick in NBA draft, Cousins top 5, and Patterson within top 20. DIdn't even make final four. Over the past 5yrs, he has had as much or more talent then any coach in the country. One cheating final four, no titles. Experience? Please, Matta took a freshman loaded team, no NCAA experience to the finals. Donovan did it with this first title team at Fla. Overrated as a coach. Great recruiter, good coach at best. Stop with the excuses.
Mar 29, 2010 5:51pm
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se-alum

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Mar 29, 2010 5:54 PM
Other than OSU, Kentucky is the team I follow the most. I honestly never thought that Kentucky was the best "team" this year. They definitely had the most raw talent. It's very difficult to win an NCAA championship when 3 of your top 5 players are Freshman.
Mar 29, 2010 5:54pm
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TheMightyGators

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438 posts
Mar 29, 2010 6:36 PM
Cal absolutely will win a NC at Kentucky as long as he keeps bringing in top talent like he did this year, Freshman or not. It's a numbers game, if you continue to put yourself in positions to win, then it's going to happen sooner or later. You just need a little luck on your side, and this year they didn't have it with the terrible shooting night.
Mar 29, 2010 6:36pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

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Mar 29, 2010 6:41 PM
centralbucksfan wrote: Its doubtful Cal will ever have more talent then he had this year. Wall will be first pick in NBA draft, Cousins top 5, and Patterson within top 20. DIdn't even make final four. Over the past 5yrs, he has had as much or more talent then any coach in the country. One cheating final four, no titles. Experience? Please, Matta took a freshman loaded team, no NCAA experience to the finals. Donovan did it with this first title team at Fla. Overrated as a coach. Great recruiter, good coach at best. Stop with the excuses.
This is all true, but you are also proving the exact point you are making with the results.

Talent does NOT equal winning.

To automatically conclude that Cal won't ever win with less talent would just be ignorant.

He could absolutely win in the future, and possibly as soon as next year. The key will be finding the right blend, which likely includes very good/elite talent and more experience. Whether that means 2010-2011 remains to be seen.
Mar 29, 2010 6:41pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

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Mar 29, 2010 6:41 PM
centralbucksfan wrote: Its doubtful Cal will ever have more talent then he had this year.
ehh, that's definitely debatable.

I mean look at the roster for next year, they'll have 2 5star players in the starting lineup, and 2 on the bench...on top of some good players they'll return from this year.

He had quality this year, but not the most quantity..he'll have that in the future after a year or two already there...and the quality will never stop.
Mar 29, 2010 6:41pm
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centralbucksfan

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Mar 29, 2010 6:48 PM
SportsAndLady wrote:
centralbucksfan wrote: Its doubtful Cal will ever have more talent then he had this year.
ehh, that's definitely debatable.

I mean look at the roster for next year, they'll have 2 5star players in the starting lineup, and 2 on the bench...on top of some good players they'll return from this year.

He had quality this year, but not the most quantity..he'll have that in the future after a year or two already there...and the quality will never stop.
How often has one college team, had 2 top 5 picks in the NBA?? And 3 within the top 15? And some say Patterson could be lottery.(I happen to think he is not as good as some think).
And if Bledsoe decided to come out, he'd be a 1st rd pic as well. That is 4 of 5 starters that would be first round draft picks in the NBA. Unheard of.
OSU had with Oden and Conley. Cook went 20th I think.

I can't think of any others. That PG / Post combo is an extreme rarity.
Mar 29, 2010 6:48pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

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Mar 29, 2010 6:51 PM
centralbucksfan wrote:
SportsAndLady wrote:
centralbucksfan wrote: Its doubtful Cal will ever have more talent then he had this year.
ehh, that's definitely debatable.

I mean look at the roster for next year, they'll have 2 5star players in the starting lineup, and 2 on the bench...on top of some good players they'll return from this year.

He had quality this year, but not the most quantity..he'll have that in the future after a year or two already there...and the quality will never stop.
How often has one college team, had 2 top 5 picks in the NBA?? And 3 within the top 15?
OSU had with Oden and Conley. Cook went 20th I think.

I can't think of any others. That PG / Post combo is an extreme rarity.
I'm not saying he'll have better quality players than this year, simply saying he'll have MORE players, who will be ridiculously good players.

I'd rather have 5-6 5star players (all of whom will have a shot to go first round), than 3 who will be top 15 picks.
Mar 29, 2010 6:51pm
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centralbucksfan

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Mar 29, 2010 6:54 PM
SportsAndLady wrote:
centralbucksfan wrote:
SportsAndLady wrote:
centralbucksfan wrote: Its doubtful Cal will ever have more talent then he had this year.
ehh, that's definitely debatable.

I mean look at the roster for next year, they'll have 2 5star players in the starting lineup, and 2 on the bench...on top of some good players they'll return from this year.

He had quality this year, but not the most quantity..he'll have that in the future after a year or two already there...and the quality will never stop.
How often has one college team, had 2 top 5 picks in the NBA?? And 3 within the top 15?
OSU had with Oden and Conley. Cook went 20th I think.

I can't think of any others. That PG / Post combo is an extreme rarity.
I'm not saying he'll have better quality players than this year, simply saying he'll have MORE players, who will be ridiculously good players.

I'd rather have 5-6 5star players (all of whom will have a shot to go first round), than 3 who will be top 15 picks.
Gotcha. But I honestly wouldn't want that. Give me those 3/4 guys, and I'll surround them with good solid role players to do the dirty work. Get too many primadonna's, and that can be difficult to manage.
Mar 29, 2010 6:54pm
C

cats gone wild

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2,651 posts
Mar 29, 2010 7:08 PM
centralbucksfan wrote:
SportsAndLady wrote:
centralbucksfan wrote: Its doubtful Cal will ever have more talent then he had this year.
ehh, that's definitely debatable.

I mean look at the roster for next year, they'll have 2 5star players in the starting lineup, and 2 on the bench...on top of some good players they'll return from this year.

He had quality this year, but not the most quantity..he'll have that in the future after a year or two already there...and the quality will never stop.
How often has one college team, had 2 top 5 picks in the NBA?? And 3 within the top 15? And some say Patterson could be lottery.(I happen to think he is not as good as some think).
And if Bledsoe decided to come out, he'd be a 1st rd pic as well. That is 4 of 5 starters that would be first round draft picks in the NBA.
If Patterson is a lottery pick and was considered a first rounder last year, AND he had to share his talent with 3 other first rounders (possibly 4 with Orton) how do you not think he is as good as others think? He cant help it he was surrounded by great players. He did pretty good the past couple seasons and his stats were pretty good this year.
Mar 29, 2010 7:08pm