Footwedge wrote:

ytownfootball wrote: The Cavs have played without Z, Shaq, Delonte, Mo on and off the whole season and have the "same" record...

But they aren't any better?

That just doesn't add up, sorry.

They played last year with just as many injuries. The names have changed, but last year's team was a little better statistically.

Last year's team was about 2 points better per game, and their season record overall was better.

The best team doesn't always win. Cavs have about the same chance as last year's team to win it all...and it has nothing to do with who was added and who was deleted from the roster.

If Cav fans want to think that this year's team is somehow better, have at it.

Most will also say that the 96 Indians were better than the 95 Indians. Same debate...hopefully, different results.

The Cavs will win it all...if they play as well during the tournament, as they played during the regular season.

Last year, Mo and DeLonte played poorly against Orlando. Orlando elevated their game and won 2 games on last second shots. That is why the Cavs lost.

Why exactly are you trying to argue that last years team was better than this group? Whats the point?

Last years group was very good, probably the best in history of the franchise. But they weren't better than the current team. Versatility is the name of the game in the playoffs and for all of the good that last years team brought to the table versatility wasn't an attribute that the Cavs possessed. The Cavs had 6 people who had distinguishable impacts on games last year. Mo, Delonte, Z, LeBron, Ben Wallace and Andy. If those are your bed rock guys there is only one real way to play the game, they slowed down the pace walked the ball up and down the floor and gave it LeBron and went from there. That style of play worked very well against bad teams and not at all against good teams, that is the reason the Cavs had a losing record against +.500 teams last year. When plan A didn't work the Cavs had no plan B. This year if the Cavs can't play their type of game they can go big or small, they can push the pace or slow it down to find some combination of players and pace that will work. That is why this years team is better. That being said this team is still coached by Mike Brown so he still has a chance to fuck it up and I wouldn't bet against that happening.

Yeah but it hurts his game when he is an offensive liability. He's a talented offensive player really, but he has to play off of someone else and he is the perfect compliment to LeBron. And I don't see him having better chemistry with any other superstar--the understanding those two have is a rare thing. It's like Manning/Harrison good.

Footwedge wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: I was the opposite and said pay the man and he hasn't made me look stupid yet. He's been a good player for a few years now. IF, and it's a big IF, LeBron goes on a Jordan like run with the Cavs for 5-6 rings--Anderson Varejao will be a HOFer. Won't take long for someone to laugh at that--but if that happens, you'll see.

Agreed. I was also a member of the "pay the man" club regarding AV. 30 years ago, the Celtics were winning rings with people like Cedrick "Cornbread" Maxwell and Paul Silas. These were nothing more than grunts....who cleaned up all the garbage....just as Verajou does.

Last year, i got jumped on these boards for citing similarities between Anderson V. and Rodman. Well, AV does some things a lot better than Rodman ever did.

People like AV, DeLonte and Mo lead me to believe that even without LBJ, this team would win 45 to 48 games.

The same can be said of the 90's Bulls. The year or 2 that MJ did not play, the Bulls won close to 50 games.

I don't agree with that last part. None of those guys is a leader the way Pippen was able to be. Pippen was better than any of them will ever be. Without LeBron this team would have a GREAT season if they won 40 games.

Well, I take that back when you add in Jamison, Shaq and Z. But I mean if it were just Mo, Delonte and AV leading the team, they wouldn't be that great.

SQ_Crazies wrote: Don't worry. Without LeBron, Andy wouldn't be the same player is he is Cleveland. He'd still be decent, but not as good.

Feel the same about JJ Hickson.

Rodman takes top honors for getting in guys heads, Andy is good, But Rodman was a good head above him.

I don't recall against who, but Rodman standing on the side for a foul shot faced away from the basket and stared down his particular player of interest. That was gamesmanship at its finest. I can't remember who though.

BR1986FB wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: Don't worry. Without LeBron, Andy wouldn't be the same player is he is Cleveland. He'd still be decent, but not as good.

Feel the same about JJ Hickson.

Yeah, well he's basically a clone of AV except he's more athletic--which later in his career could allow him to be a better player away from LeBron than Andy. Assuming he reaches his ceiling, which right now is probably higher than Andy's.

ytownfootball wrote: Rodman takes top honors for getting in guys heads, Andy is good, But Rodman was a good head above him.

I don't recall against who, but Rodman standing on the side for a foul shot faced away from the basket and stared down his particular player of interest. That was gamesmanship at its finest. I can't remember who though.

I'm putting Andy on Rodman's level here for one reason--Kevin Garnett. Probably one of the best players in history and Andy is under his skin before the game ever starts. It started when he was in Minnesota and it hasn't stopped--I've never seen KG play against a guy that frustrates him as much as Andy.

Did I just read Varejao as a hall of famer? LOL.

The guy played with LBJ, the greatest teammate elevator since Magic. I would look good playing next to the guy.

Varejao is a good NBA player. I'd love to have him on my team, no doubt.

But a hall of famer? A hall of famer? LOL. Jesus Christ. You guys kill me.

Sage wrote: Did I just read Varejao as a hall of famer? LOL.

Yes, as usual, that's clearly the only part you read. LOL.

Yeah, I respect what Varejao brings to the Cavs as much as anybody, but the HOF. No way, not even close to a HOFamer. First step, get your damn elbow in so you don't have that flying chicken wing on every shot.

From the Hills wrote: Yeah, I respect what Varejao brings to the Cavs as much as anybody, but the HOF. No way, not even close to a HOFamer. First step, get your damn elbow in so you don't have that flying chicken wing on every shot.

Victim #2.

3reppom wrote:

Footwedge wrote:

ytownfootball wrote: The Cavs have played without Z, Shaq, Delonte, Mo on and off the whole season and have the "same" record...

But they aren't any better?

That just doesn't add up, sorry.

They played last year with just as many injuries. The names have changed, but last year's team was a little better statistically.

Last year's team was about 2 points better per game, and their season record overall was better.

The best team doesn't always win. Cavs have about the same chance as last year's team to win it all...and it has nothing to do with who was added and who was deleted from the roster.

If Cav fans want to think that this year's team is somehow better, have at it.

Most will also say that the 96 Indians were better than the 95 Indians. Same debate...hopefully, different results.

The Cavs will win it all...if they play as well during the tournament, as they played during the regular season.

Last year, Mo and DeLonte played poorly against Orlando. Orlando elevated their game and won 2 games on last second shots. That is why the Cavs lost.

Why exactly are you trying to argue that last years team was better than this group? Whats the point?

Last years group was very good, probably the best in history of the franchise. But they weren't better than the current team. Versatility is the name of the game in the playoffs and for all of the good that last years team brought to the table versatility wasn't an attribute that the Cavs possessed. The Cavs had 6 people who had distinguishable impacts on games last year. Mo, Delonte, Z, LeBron, Ben Wallace and Andy. If those are your bed rock guys there is only one real way to play the game, they slowed down the pace walked the ball up and down the floor and gave it LeBron and went from there. That style of play worked very well against bad teams and not at all against good teams, that is the reason the Cavs had a losing record against +.500 teams last year. When plan A didn't work the Cavs had no plan B. This year if the Cavs can't play their type of game they can go big or small, they can push the pace or slow it down to find some combination of players and pace that will work. That is why this years team is better. That being said this team is still coached by Mike Brown so he still has a chance to fuck it up and I wouldn't bet against that happening.

Your post is riddled with delusions. From sentence one through nine. You are just another media kool aid drinker without allowing the facts to speak for themselves.

A pragmatic person will analize the data and base his opinions on what is known. You sir, choose not to do so. Good for you.

Last night, the Knicks beat Dallas by 36 points. Does that mean that Dallas can't match up with the Knicks? Now how stupid is that argument?

As with any oddsmaking. the larger the sample size, the more accurate the probabilities are.

Last year, the team was 66-16. They had a point differential of over 9 per game. As good as this team is, last year's was slightly better. Figures don't lie...But liars figure.

Wally, Sasha, Wallace and Joe Smith were major cogs in last year's well oiled machine.

Yoy keep asking me what my "point" is. For the 50th time...the point is that last year's team was slightly better than this year's team. And that this year's team has about the same chance as last year's team in winning a championship.

If you can't follow simple logic and understand the basic principles of mathematical probabilities, then that is your problem.

And finally...your stab at Mike Brown as a coach underlines your ineptitude in evaluating coaches.

There are a bunch of offensive machines in the NBA. But there are very few coaches that demand performances on the defensive end.....and get the results that Brown gets.

Defensive statistics don't necessarily get recognized come contract time. Only a great coach can get his players to buy in..and leave it all on the court at the defensive end.

The great Bulls teams of the nineties, the Spurs under Pops, and even the Celtics of 2 years ago understood this.

From the Hills wrote: Yeah, I respect what Varejao brings to the Cavs as much as anybody, but the HOF. No way, not even close to a HOFamer. First step, get your damn elbow in so you don't have that flying chicken wing on every shot.

If you want "pretty". go watch someone else shoot the ball. Dan Furyk's shot is ugly too.

The man shoots 57% from the field.

You are a ratard.

devil1197 wrote: You are a ratard.

Pot.....kettle

wes_mantooth wrote:

devil1197 wrote: You are a ratard.

Pot.....kettle

Fist....your face


Me.....your mom

devil1197 wrote:

wes_mantooth wrote:

devil1197 wrote: You are a ratard.

Pot.....kettle

Fist....your face


Me.....your mom

You Now...... Herpes.

Where do you think his mom got them from???

devil1197 wrote: Where do you think his mom got them from???

me.

wes_mantooth wrote:

devil1197 wrote: Where do you think his mom got them from???

me.

You would thats the scary thing.

Sasha, Wally, Ben and Joe Smith

avg 21.0 pts/game
avg 7 rebs/game


Jamison, Parker, Moon and Shaq

avg 32.5 pts/game
avg 21.3 rebs/game


That's +11.5 pts. and +14.3 rebs. per game.

The Cavs are better this year and it's not close. You're an idiot.

ytownfootball wrote: Sasha, Wally, Ben and Joe Smith

avg 21.0 pts/game
avg 7 rebs/game


Jamison, Parker, Moon and Shaq

avg 32.5 pts/game
avg 21.3 rebs/game


That's +11.5 pts. and +14.3 rebs. per game.

The Cavs are better this year and it's not close. You're an idiot.

You might as well give up now. It's easier and a lot less stressful to not try to debate with him.

ytownfootball wrote: Sasha, Wally, Ben and Joe Smith

avg 21.0 pts/game
avg 7 rebs/game


Jamison, Parker, Moon and Shaq

avg 32.5 pts/game
avg 21.3 rebs/game


That's +11.5 pts. and +14.3 rebs. per game.

The Cavs are better this year and it's not close. You're an idiot.

Plus, you don't even have the stats in include Shaq, Moon, and Parker's defensive upgrades over Sasha, Wally, and Wallace.

Smith and Jamison are equal on defense.

I have them, just too lazy and this was enough to prove that compared to this year...

Wally, Sasha, Wallace and Joe Smith were major cogs in last year's well oiled machine.

is utter bulllllllshit.

ytownfootball wrote: I have them, just too lazy and this was enough to prove that compared to this year...

Wally, Sasha, Wallace and Joe Smith were major cogs in last year's well oiled machine.

is utter bulllllllshit.

What part is bullshit? The subs I listed or the fact that the team was a well oiled machine?

66-16...Deosn't happen with a shitty bench.