Is the Big East.....

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Prescott

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2,569 posts
Mar 11, 2010 9:32 PM
A beast or are these teams overrated. The losers include Syracuse(#3), Villanova(#10), and Pitt(#16). I know Syracuse lost to #22 Georgetown, but Nova and Pitt lost to unranked teams.

If the Big East is a beast it isn't a big deal. If the Big East is overrated the impact on a bracket will be huge if the bracket is filled out assuming the BE is a beast.
Mar 11, 2010 9:32pm
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killer_ewok

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Mar 11, 2010 9:34 PM
Beast.
Mar 11, 2010 9:34pm
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Cleveland Buck

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5,126 posts
Mar 11, 2010 9:42 PM
Hard to tell. They have 16 teams. Having 8 NCAA tournament teams from the Big East is the same as having 5-6 from the Big Ten, or having 6 from the ACC or SEC. It's no big feat. The Big Ten went 5-2 against the Big East this year. They are definitely among the best leagues, though I agree they are overrated.
Mar 11, 2010 9:42pm
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Azubuike24

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15,933 posts
Mar 11, 2010 9:44 PM
The Big East definitely benefits from having some horrible teams. They also benefit from NOT playing anything close to a "balanced" schedule. However, you can't argue that every year, it seems half of their teams are NCAA caliber. Lets face it...DePaul and Providence were awful. St. John's and Rutgers were bad, but capable teams. Cincinnati, Seton Hall, South Florida and Connecticut were victims of just being average in a brutal league. The top 8, as I see it right now, is pretty well defined, which isn't that common with the Big East. Seton Hall is a quality 9th, but they just didn't do enough.

The conference is very strong however.
Mar 11, 2010 9:44pm
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Laley23

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29,506 posts
Mar 11, 2010 9:49 PM
They are very good, but not BEASTLY as they have been in previous years (most notably, imo, last season).

As Azu said, the incredibly unbalanced schedule helps teams out so much. Ive watched Pitt a few times and have come away impressed about 2 times.

I mean, I watched my Hoosiers just completely outplay the Panthers in MSG. Make no mistake about it, the Hoosiers are a BAAAAAD team.
Mar 11, 2010 9:49pm
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rock_knutne

Mar 11, 2010 10:09 PM
The Big East is the BEST conference in America! Im sick and tired of hearing how they are top heavy when the three semifinalists thus far in the Big East tournament are a 5 seed or higher! It's tight just about every single night in the Big East.
Mar 11, 2010 10:09pm
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Laley23

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Mar 11, 2010 10:13 PM
rock_knutne wrote: The Big East is the BEST conference in America! Im sick and tired of hearing how they are top heavy when the three semifinalists thus far in the Big East tournament are a 5 seed or higher! It's tight just about every single night in the Big East.
my point is the unbalanced schedule doesnt truly show who the top teams are necessarily. The top teams, imo, could all switch based on a different schedule. I DO agree however that it is the best league in the NCAA.
Mar 11, 2010 10:13pm
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rock_knutne

Mar 11, 2010 10:19 PM
^^^^I'm not directing that at you or anyone else, it's just the general consensus you get on here about Big East basketball. Yeah, the bottom teams suck, DePaul is a joke but two thirds of the conference and up, it's tight and you can lose on any given night.
Mar 11, 2010 10:19pm
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Azubuike24

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Mar 11, 2010 10:22 PM
Hypothetically, take the bottom 4 out of the Big East this year and play a much more balanced schedule (like the Big 12, SEC or ACC does) and I'd guarantee you wouldn't have 9 or 10 teams with above .500 records fighting for NCAA bids. That's the only thing. People are so quick to cite the resumes of Louisville and Seton Hall because they are ".500 or better in the best conference", but that argument is watered down because there are so many teams in the league.

Outside of Syracuse twice and Notre Dame, who did Louisville beat ALL SEASON? With a 12-team conference, their best wins after those 3 would all be against that "bottom tier" of teams (Connecticut X 2, Cincinnati, St. John's, South Florida), which would be the equivalent of a team in the Big 12, SEC, ACC or Big 10 citing wins over the lower half of their conference as "quality wins", which they really aren't.

Outside of Cornell, Pittsburgh, Louisville and Notre Dame, who did Seton Hall beat ALL SEASON? Again, their next best wins after those 4 are against Cincinnati and St. John's.

I guess my point here is that if these teams were finishing .500, or near .500 in the league and facing Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Georgetown, Villanova and West Virginia twice a season, I'd buy them much more than I do now.
Mar 11, 2010 10:22pm
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Cleveland Buck

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Mar 11, 2010 10:28 PM
rock_knutne wrote: Yeah, the bottom teams suck, DePaul is a joke but two thirds of the conference and up, it's tight and you can lose on any given night.
It's that way in many leagues. It's that way in the Big Ten this year with the top 8 teams (more than two thirds). Yes, even Michigan, who sucks, beat UConn and played Kansas tough on the road. Hell, Indiana beat Pitt and played with Kentucky for 30 minutes, and both Iowa and Penn State choked away tight games against Virginia Tech.
Mar 11, 2010 10:28pm
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rock_knutne

Mar 11, 2010 10:30 PM
Notre Dame is a prime example.......they struggled most of the year, losing to some garbage teams in the process but low and behold, they run off five wins in a row against some the better teams in the conference. There's a ton of talent in the Big East and it's a struggle just about every night.
Mar 11, 2010 10:30pm
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rock_knutne

Mar 11, 2010 10:32 PM
Cleveland Buck wrote: It's that way in many leagues. It's that way in the Big Ten this year with the top 8 teams (more than two thirds). Yes, even Michigan, who sucks, beat UConn and played Kansas tough on the road. Hell, Indiana beat Pitt and played with Kentucky for 30 minutes, and both Iowa and Penn State choked away tight games against Virginia Tech.

What are you trying to say......the Big 10 is better?
Mar 11, 2010 10:32pm
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ts1227

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12,319 posts
Mar 11, 2010 10:33 PM
Sure, they have a weak bottom because they have 16 goddamn teams... it's the same reason they have more depth at the top.
Mar 11, 2010 10:33pm
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killer_ewok

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Mar 11, 2010 10:34 PM
rock_knutne wrote: Notre Dame is a prime example.......they struggled most of the year, losing to some garbage teams in the process but low and behold, they run off five wins in a row against some the better teams in the conference. There's a ton of talent in the Big East and it's a struggle just about every night.
To be fair, ND reinvented themselves after 'Gody went down with an injury. That's what makes they so dangerous now IMO. This isn't the same ND team from earlier in the year. They're taking the air out of the ball and (gasp) playing some darn good defense. Carleton Scott emerged and 'Gody has returned and accepted his new role coming off the bench.
Mar 11, 2010 10:34pm
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Cleveland Buck

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Mar 11, 2010 10:38 PM
rock_knutne wrote:
Cleveland Buck wrote: It's that way in many leagues. It's that way in the Big Ten this year with the top 8 teams (more than two thirds). Yes, even Michigan, who sucks, beat UConn and played Kansas tough on the road. Hell, Indiana beat Pitt and played with Kentucky for 30 minutes, and both Iowa and Penn State choked away tight games against Virginia Tech.

What are you trying to say......the Big 10 is better?
I didn't say that, though there isn't any proof you can show to say it isn't better.
Mar 11, 2010 10:38pm
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rock_knutne

Mar 11, 2010 10:38 PM
killer_ewok wrote:
rock_knutne wrote: Notre Dame is a prime example.......they struggled most of the year, losing to some garbage teams in the process but low and behold, they run off five wins in a row against some the better teams in the conference. There's a ton of talent in the Big East and it's a struggle just about every night.
To be fair, ND reinvented themselves after 'Gody went down with an injury. That's what makes they so dangerous now IMO. This isn't the same ND team from earlier in the year. They're taking the air out of the ball and (gasp) playing some darn good defense. Carleton Scott emerged and 'Gody has returned and accepted his new role coming off the bench.
Reinvent or found their stride.......regardless, they've won five in a row against the some of the better teams in the league.

And ewok, being a "Cuse" fan, you should know better than anyone the rigors of a Big East basketball season, even before the conference was expanded.
Mar 11, 2010 10:38pm
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killer_ewok

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Mar 11, 2010 10:43 PM
rock_knutne wrote:
killer_ewok wrote:
rock_knutne wrote: Notre Dame is a prime example.......they struggled most of the year, losing to some garbage teams in the process but low and behold, they run off five wins in a row against some the better teams in the conference. There's a ton of talent in the Big East and it's a struggle just about every night.
To be fair, ND reinvented themselves after 'Gody went down with an injury. That's what makes they so dangerous now IMO. This isn't the same ND team from earlier in the year. They're taking the air out of the ball and (gasp) playing some darn good defense. Carleton Scott emerged and 'Gody has returned and accepted his new role coming off the bench.
Reinvent or found their stride.......regardless, they've won five in a row against the some of the better teams in the league.

And ewok, being a "Cuse" fan, you should know better than anyone the rigors of a Big East basketball season, even before the conference was expanded.
A little of both, Rock. Take it as a compliment. It's pretty amazing what Brey has done. How often do teams completely change their strategy/approach in the middle of the season and make such a great transition like ND has? Granted they were kinda forced to when 'Gody went down but still....Brey chose to go that route and it has paid dividends. Pretty amazing.

And yes, I know the rigors of Big East hoops and have since 1990. It's a grinder that, IMO, is typically unlike any other conference due to the style of play and more often than not.....the caliber of teams. But let's face it.....we're not going to convince many people on here of that so I'm not going to frustrate myself trying. LOL
Mar 11, 2010 10:43pm
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rock_knutne

Mar 11, 2010 10:44 PM
Cleveland Buck wrote: I didn't say that, though there isn't any proof you can show to say it isn't better.
We'll see after things play out in the NCAA tournament.
Mar 11, 2010 10:44pm
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rock_knutne

Mar 11, 2010 10:47 PM
killer_ewok wrote: A little of both, Rock. Take it as a compliment. It's pretty amazing what Brey has done. How often do teams completely change their strategy/approach in the middle of the season and make such a great transition like ND has? Granted they were kinda forced to when 'Gody went down but still....Brey chose to go that route and it has paid dividends. Pretty amazing.

And yes, I know the rigors of Big East hoops and have since 1990. It's a grinder that, IMO, is typically unlike any other conference due to the style of play and more often than not.....the caliber of teams. But let's face it.....we're not going to convince many people on here of that so I'm not going to frustrate myself trying. LOL
I understand what you're saying about ND and credit Brey for making the adjustment, my point is that a team that was left for dead came to life in a very demanding league. You hardly ever see that happening in other conferences.

As for the second part of your post........I couldn't agree more.;)
Mar 11, 2010 10:47pm
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dokken

Senior Member

230 posts
Mar 12, 2010 6:32 AM
Definitely the media darling conference, because their tournament is played in MSG in NYC. But something has to be said about the fact that the conference's #1 seed lost in the quarterfinals to the #8 seed, (did I mention the conference's #8 seed was #22 in the country)
Mar 12, 2010 6:32am
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centralbucksfan

Senior Member

5,111 posts
Mar 12, 2010 8:12 AM
Its the deepest conference...and again, it SHOULD be when you have as many teams as they have. The top 4/5 teams...IMO, are not that much stronger then the other top conferences. They just have a few more quality teams then other conferences. Thats the extent of it.
Mar 12, 2010 8:12am
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Cleveland Buck

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Mar 21, 2010 8:03 PM
rock_knutne wrote:
Cleveland Buck wrote: I didn't say that, though there isn't any proof you can show to say it isn't better.
We'll see after things play out in the NCAA tournament.
I have seen how things played out. The Big Ten has 60% of their tournament teams and 27% of their conference in the Sweet 16. The Big East has 25% of their tournament teams and 12.5% of their conference in the Sweet 16.
Mar 21, 2010 8:03pm
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rock_knutne

Mar 21, 2010 9:00 PM
^^^^^^It's not over yet.
Mar 21, 2010 9:00pm
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dokken

Senior Member

230 posts
Mar 21, 2010 9:00 PM
A far cry from recent Big East NCAA Tournament wins. I think it was last year the Big East had 6 or 7 teams in the Sweet 16.
Mar 21, 2010 9:00pm
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Cleveland Buck

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Mar 21, 2010 9:06 PM
For the purposes of this discussion it is over. Even if Syracuse or West Virginia win the national championship, you can still have the best team without having the best league.
Mar 21, 2010 9:06pm