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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Mar 7, 2010 6:46pm
I just heard two news stories today that bear discussion.
The first involves Washington, DC, whose city council voted to allow gay marriage starting this Tuesday. The Catholic Charities changed their policy on giving health insurance coverage to spouses of new hires because the city council would not grant them an exemption not to allow coverage for gay spouses.
The second is about a Catholic school in Boulder, CO, who is denying admission to a 5-year-old girl because she has two lesbian mothers.
I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.
The first involves Washington, DC, whose city council voted to allow gay marriage starting this Tuesday. The Catholic Charities changed their policy on giving health insurance coverage to spouses of new hires because the city council would not grant them an exemption not to allow coverage for gay spouses.
The second is about a Catholic school in Boulder, CO, who is denying admission to a 5-year-old girl because she has two lesbian mothers.
I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.
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fan_from_texas
Posts: 2,693
Mar 7, 2010 6:56pm
I'm a little unclear on this. Is it possible to love someone and disapprove of actions they take? Is it possible to love someone and treat them harshly? Is it possible to be full of love and yet adopt stances that others find repugnant?FairwoodKing wrote: I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.
Regardless of whether homosexuality is kosher or not, it seems to me that an organization sticking by a belief it has sincerely held for thousands of years--rather than dropping it at the whim of cultural fashion--isn't indicative of hate.
iclfan2
Posts: 6,360
Mar 7, 2010 6:59pm
Hate group? Please. I'm not a big fan of the Catholic church, but homosexuality is against their religion, therefore I see no need for them to pander to gays. They are against it, and they stand up for their beliefs.
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Mar 7, 2010 7:01pm
You're right-- the Catholic Church hasn't changed in two thousand years. But the world has. It is about time for Catholics to catch up.fan_from_texas wrote:I'm a little unclear on this. Is it possible to love someone and disapprove of actions they take? Is it possible to love someone and treat them harshly? Is it possible to be full of love and yet adopt stances that others find repugnant?FairwoodKing wrote: I think the Catholic Church is the biggest hate group in the world. They claim to love everyone, but their actions surely prove just the opposite.
Regardless of whether homosexuality is kosher or not, it seems to me that an organization sticking by a belief it has sincerely held for thousands of years--rather than dropping it at the whim of cultural fashion--isn't indicative of hate.
Gay rights isn't a whim of cultural fashion. It is a matter of us gay people demanding our human rights.
I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?
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DenisonBigRedLax
Posts: 108
Mar 7, 2010 7:04pm
if you dont accept what catholics say, then dont try to send your kids to catholic school, simple as that
plenty of other private schools just as good or better than catholic ones
plenty of other private schools just as good or better than catholic ones
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fan_from_texas
Posts: 2,693
Mar 7, 2010 7:06pm
How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?
I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.
Strapping Young Lad
Posts: 2,453
Mar 7, 2010 7:23pm
So, they deprive a child of a catholic edu b/c the parents are gay. Seems to me if Christianity was the path to salvation they'd want a child (who, BTW, is not the individual who's actions they dissapprove of. That would be the gay parents) to be exposed to their wonderful religion and would want to help instill in the child Christian values. Lord knows that those values are waning in contemporary American society.
Instead they choose the narrow minded, hypocritical way.
Smooth "business" move, Catholicism......
Instead they choose the narrow minded, hypocritical way.
Smooth "business" move, Catholicism......
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Mar 7, 2010 7:23pm
These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.fan_from_texas wrote:How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?
I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.
Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.
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DenisonBigRedLax
Posts: 108
Mar 7, 2010 7:25pm
then why dont you get your gay friends to rally and campaign for gay rights...looks like they just tried harder than youFairwoodKing wrote:These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.fan_from_texas wrote:How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?
I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.
Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.
skank
Posts: 6,543
Mar 7, 2010 7:28pm
Catholics recruit also.
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Mar 7, 2010 7:29pm
My gay friends and I did campaign very hard here in Washington State and we won. I'm just sorry that our brothers and sisters in CA didn't have the same results.DenisonBigRedLax wrote:then why dont you get your gay friends to rally and campaign for gay rights...looks like they just tried harder than youFairwoodKing wrote:These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.fan_from_texas wrote:How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?
I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.
Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.
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DenisonBigRedLax
Posts: 108
Mar 7, 2010 7:32pm
or didnt try hard enoughFairwoodKing wrote:My gay friends and I did campaign very hard here in Washington State and we won. I'm just sorry that our brothers and sisters in CA didn't have the same results.DenisonBigRedLax wrote:then why dont you get your gay friends to rally and campaign for gay rights...looks like they just tried harder than youFairwoodKing wrote:These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.fan_from_texas wrote:How are they wrongfully dictating what kind of life you can lead? It's certainly their prerogative to run their organization as they see fit, just as it is fine and proper for various gay rights organizations to operate as they see fit. If you don't like what they stand for, don't support them. I don't see what the big deal is.FairwoodKing wrote: I'm an atheist. I don't accept what the Catholics or Baptists or Mormons say. So why should they have the right to dictate what kind of life I can lead?
I'm sure there are plenty of clubs that wouldn't accept me as a member. I guess I can either suck it up, put on my big boy pants, and get over it, or, in the alternative, change who I am so they will accept me. If it's a big enough deal to be accepted, I can change who I am. If it isn't, then I might as well get over it.
In most states, sexual orientation isn't a protected class, IIRC. I think it's unfair to label an organization 'hateful' simply because they disagree with you.
Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.
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Gardens35
Posts: 4,929
Mar 7, 2010 7:33pm
The Catholics stole another erection...
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DenisonBigRedLax
Posts: 108
Mar 7, 2010 7:35pm
que?Gardens35 wrote: The Catholics stole another erection...
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Mar 7, 2010 8:07pm
FairwoodKing wrote: These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.
Then be thankful you have a place to live as you wish in this country instead of trying to force your beliefs on the whole nation. We can't all agree on everything.
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Society
Posts: 1,146
Mar 7, 2010 8:11pm
Is there any way to keep this crap on the political forum?
dwccrew
Posts: 7,817
Mar 7, 2010 8:20pm
As long as the government isn't intervening, I have no problem with the Catholic church operating their private organization as they see fit. I don't care for the Catholic church, but I have no problem with them operating based on their beliefs.
As far as a gay rights referendum, I feel the government should treat gays as equals to heterosexuals, but the people voted against it. And using your (FairwoodKing) logic with the smoking bans, this is the same thing. The voters have spoken. I may not agree with it, but this is the way of it.
As far as a gay rights referendum, I feel the government should treat gays as equals to heterosexuals, but the people voted against it. And using your (FairwoodKing) logic with the smoking bans, this is the same thing. The voters have spoken. I may not agree with it, but this is the way of it.
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september63
Posts: 5,789
Mar 7, 2010 8:21pm
A little culture and hearing both sides to a religious debate wont kill you Society. If the thread isnt ur thing, dont click on it.
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Society
Posts: 1,146
Mar 7, 2010 8:25pm
It's not the religious portion. It's the whining about gays being picked on.september63 wrote: A little culture and hearing both sides to a religious debate wont kill you Society. If the thread isnt ur thing, dont click on it.
september63
Posts: 5,789
Mar 7, 2010 8:29pm
Same reply. Dont click on it then.
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Society
Posts: 1,146
Mar 7, 2010 8:38pm
That's too easy.september63 wrote: Same reply. Dont click on it then.
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FairwoodKing
Posts: 2,504
Mar 7, 2010 9:05pm
If I replaced the word "gay" with "black", would you still think I was trying to force my beliefs on everyone? I have no more choice in being gay than African Americans have in being black. We are only looking for human rights for everybody.majorspark wrote:FairwoodKing wrote: These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.
Then be thankful you have a place to live as you wish in this country instead of trying to force your beliefs on the whole nation. We can't all agree on everything.
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Society
Posts: 1,146
Mar 7, 2010 9:10pm
Don't lie to yourself. You have a choice.FairwoodKing wrote:If I replaced the word "gay" with "black", would you still think I was trying to force my beliefs on everyone? I have no more choice in being gay than African Americans have in being black. We are only looking for human rights for everybody.majorspark wrote:FairwoodKing wrote: These religious organizations are responsible for passing laws that hurt people like me. Just a few months ago in California, the voters turned down a gay rights referendum largely becacuse the Mormon Church campaigned so strongly against it.
Fortunately for me, here in the State of Washington, sexual orientation is a protected class. True, we still don't have gay marriage, but we have everything except calling it that. If I had a lover, we would have almost all of the rights of a married couple, including the right to adopt children. It makes a big difference.
Then be thankful you have a place to live as you wish in this country instead of trying to force your beliefs on the whole nation. We can't all agree on everything.
CenterBHSFan
Posts: 6,115
Mar 7, 2010 9:12pm
Is this yet another form of zealotry?
iclfan2
Posts: 6,360
Mar 7, 2010 9:15pm
Dude you're not going to change a religion. They are against it and don't need to fold to anything. What "basic human right" don't you have for being gay? Also, Mormons didn't lose you proposition 8, the liberal agenda of getting blacks out in droves to vote for Obama is what lost prop. 8. Which is ironic in itself.