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Homosexuality vs. religion

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Serious Business ▸ Homosexuality vs. religion
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Mar 16, 2010 11:24 AM
Heretic wrote: If a gay person's afterlife involved being in a room reserved for gays, wouldn't that be heaven for him/her?
Point, Heretic. I believe the score is about 80-0.
SQ_Crazies wrote: I keep seeing this thing on TV about "Who framed Jesus?", a show on Discovery or History or something. But what do you Bible thumpers think about that?

If Jesus is God and God is Jesus and someone did indeed frame him, is it the most epic fail ever that God got framed by what he created?!

Maybe the people evolved to out smart him...
Not sure if I would fit the qualification, but it would more likely be something like this:

1. Man has diminished mental faculties compared to a/the supreme being of the universe.

2. One or a group of these beings with diminished mental faculties convinces the rest that said supreme being is errant in some way, but the construct is flawed.

3. The rest of the mentally diminished beings believe this one or group because they share the flaw.



Think about it like a patient in a center for mentally challenged individuals convincing the other patients, who are also mentally challenged, that the center they are in is really a butcher shop, and they are being led to slaughter (or some other nonsensical claim). Those with the higher mental faculties will know that this is ludicrous, but the one making the claim appeals to those on the same or a similar level to him.
dwccrew wrote:My question always was this.....why would God need to sacrifice his only son for man's sins to be forgiven? Why couldn't he just forgive them since he is God and all-powerful?

This is why I think most stories in the Bible are just that, stories.
To answer the question, it is because God is as just as he is loving. In terms of how the whole "sin" thing must be dealt with, it's very much like a debt to be paid ... we just don't have the green to cover it. In a way it is not dissimilar to the reason the Jews held sacrificed in the Old Testament: for the guilty to live, the innocent must die in their place. That's why a young lamb was typically used, as they were considered the most pure and innocent livestock.
Mar 16, 2010 11:24am
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Mar 16, 2010 11:40 PM
O-Trap wrote:
dwccrew wrote:My question always was this.....why would God need to sacrifice his only son for man's sins to be forgiven? Why couldn't he just forgive them since he is God and all-powerful?

This is why I think most stories in the Bible are just that, stories.
To answer the question, it is because God is as just as he is loving. In terms of how the whole "sin" thing must be dealt with, it's very much like a debt to be paid ... we just don't have the green to cover it. In a way it is not dissimilar to the reason the Jews held sacrificed in the Old Testament: for the guilty to live, the innocent must die in their place. That's why a young lamb was typically used, as they were considered the most pure and innocent livestock.
I understand where you are coming from, but I just don't understand the belief that an all-powerful God needs to sacrifice something in return for forgiveness. It sounds like something man has made up over time to make them feel better about what will happen after their demise. JMO
Mar 16, 2010 11:40pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Mar 16, 2010 11:45 PM
dwccrew wrote:
O-Trap wrote:
dwccrew wrote:My question always was this.....why would God need to sacrifice his only son for man's sins to be forgiven? Why couldn't he just forgive them since he is God and all-powerful?

This is why I think most stories in the Bible are just that, stories.
To answer the question, it is because God is as just as he is loving. In terms of how the whole "sin" thing must be dealt with, it's very much like a debt to be paid ... we just don't have the green to cover it. In a way it is not dissimilar to the reason the Jews held sacrificed in the Old Testament: for the guilty to live, the innocent must die in their place. That's why a young lamb was typically used, as they were considered the most pure and innocent livestock.
I understand where you are coming from, but I just don't understand the belief that an all-powerful God needs to sacrifice something in return for forgiveness. It sounds like something man has made up over time to make them feel better about what will happen after their demise. JMO
As I said, it would fly in the face of the notion of a God who requires justice if God just said, "Eh, what the hell ... don't worry about it."

With the whole salvific substitution (Jesus, the innocent, dying in place of the guilty), there is a reconciliation of mercy and justice. The price is still paid, but it is paid by the one owed, so to speak.
Mar 16, 2010 11:45pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 17, 2010 12:04 AM
It would all be pretty ironic if Jesus was gay.
Mar 17, 2010 12:04am
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Mar 17, 2010 12:07 AM
Con_Alma wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote: I keep seeing this thing on TV about "Who framed Jesus?", a show on Discovery or History or something. But what do you Bible thumpers think about that?

If Jesus is God and God is Jesus and someone did indeed frame him, is it the most epic fail ever that God got framed by what he created?!

Maybe the people evolved to out smart him...

How can it be a fail. The reason God sent his son to earth in the form of man was accomplished. He was framed as an innocent man and then killed. That's what was supposed to happen.
If God isn't a man, how does he have a son?

And I'm confused. Before I was told Jesus is God and God is Jesus. How can there be such confusion on something that every acts so sure about?
Mar 17, 2010 12:07am
3reppom's avatar

3reppom

Senior Member

765 posts
Mar 17, 2010 12:16 AM
SQ_Crazies wrote:
Con_Alma wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote: I keep seeing this thing on TV about "Who framed Jesus?", a show on Discovery or History or something. But what do you Bible thumpers think about that?

If Jesus is God and God is Jesus and someone did indeed frame him, is it the most epic fail ever that God got framed by what he created?!

Maybe the people evolved to out smart him...

How can it be a fail. The reason God sent his son to earth in the form of man was accomplished. He was framed as an innocent man and then killed. That's what was supposed to happen.
If God isn't a man, how does he have a son?

And I'm confused. Before I was told Jesus is God and God is Jesus. How can there be such confusion on something that every acts so sure about?
Because the question of Jesus being human and divine can only be determined by faith. You either believe it or your don't. The very nature of faith as a concept doesn't allow for much questioning of its tenants, let alone one that is at the heart of an entire school of faith.
Mar 17, 2010 12:16am
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Mar 17, 2010 1:01 AM
^Thank you, surprised it only took one post to get that answer with all of the contradictions we've had on this thread.

LOL @ people who present everything as fact and act like pricks to those who don't agree, when it's all totally based on personal faith. Now that makes boatloads of sense doesn't it?!

Also, LOL @ me and others for wasting time trying to argue with said people.
Mar 17, 2010 1:01am
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Mar 17, 2010 1:19 AM
SQ_Crazies wrote: ^Thank you, surprised it only took one post to get that answer with all of the contradictions we've had on this thread.

LOL @ people who present everything as fact and act like pricks to those who don't agree, when it's all totally based on personal faith. Now that makes boatloads of sense doesn't it?!

Also, LOL @ me and others for wasting time trying to argue with said people.
It's kind of like the debate about Kobe and Lebron and watching everyone argue about who is better. It's the exact same argument. It's all a personal belief. LOL
Mar 17, 2010 1:19am
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Mar 17, 2010 3:00 AM
Eh, I get where you're going--but I disagree, this isn't the same at all. It's 100 time crazier and the scale is clearly much bigger.
Mar 17, 2010 3:00am
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 19, 2010 10:08 PM
Now there is a new scandal. The Catholic Church in Germany is being accused of protecting pedaphile priests who molested children during the current pope's tenure as archbishop.

This is making everybody look bad. The church is being shown as the bunch of fools they really are, and gays are being portrayed as pedaphiles. Very few gay men are pedaphiles. Everyone in the gay world knows how many gay priests there are, but we also know that most of them are interested in adult men, not children.

There seems to be no end to the list of problems the Catholic Church makes for us.
Mar 19, 2010 10:08pm
G

Ghost Rider

Junior Member

15 posts
Mar 19, 2010 10:17 PM
Seems to be no end to the list of problems the gay catholic priests makes for us.
Mar 19, 2010 10:17pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Mar 19, 2010 10:22 PM
FairwoodKing wrote:

There seems to be no end to the list of problems the Catholic Church makes for us.
Mar 19, 2010 10:22pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 19, 2010 10:24 PM
Ghost Rider wrote: Seems to be no end to the list of problems the gay catholic priests makes for us.
Catholic priests are hypocrites. They know how many gays are in their group, yet they continue to oppose gay rights.

If Catholics (and Baptists and Mormons and the rest) would mind their own business and allow us gays to have our human rights, I wouldn't care how they worshipped. But they interfere in our lives and deny us our equal rights. That's why I oppose them.
Mar 19, 2010 10:24pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Mar 19, 2010 11:16 PM
Just for the sake of argument ( :) ), I thought that the Catholic Church was ignoring gay rights?

If they are ignoring gay rights, how can they be "interferring" ?
Mar 19, 2010 11:16pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 20, 2010 1:59 AM
CenterBHSFan wrote: Just for the sake of argument ( :) ), I thought that the Catholic Church was ignoring gay rights?

If they are ignoring gay rights, how can they be "interferring" ?
They don't ignore us. They actively work against us. I am particularly pissed off at the Mormons. They were the ones who really did everything in their power to get the voters in CA to turn down the gay rights bill this past November. If they had minded their own damn business, the bill might have passed. The Catholic Church is equally guilty of hindering our progress, as is the Southern Baptist Church.
Mar 20, 2010 1:59am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Mar 20, 2010 5:56 AM
FairwoodKing wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote: Seems to be no end to the list of problems the gay catholic priests makes for us.
Catholic priests are hypocrites. They know how many gays are in their group, yet they continue to oppose gay rights.

...
That doesn't make one a hypocrite.
Mar 20, 2010 5:56am
N

Nate

Formerly Known As Keebler

3,949 posts
Mar 20, 2010 11:42 AM
I avoided this topic because I had no interest but I read pages 9-11 (50 replies per page) and I must say that those 3 pages may have been the most amusing 3 pages of this whole web site. Watching Dey and WeAreNC fight was outstanding. It just made my Saturday work day worth while.
Mar 20, 2010 11:42am
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 20, 2010 10:21 PM
Keebler wrote: I avoided this topic because I had no interest but I read pages 9-11 (50 replies per page) and I must say that those 3 pages may have been the most amusing 3 pages of this whole web site. Watching Dey and WeAreNC fight was outstanding. It just made my Saturday work day worth while.
I didn't start this thread for your amusement. I started it because we gay people have serious issues. Organized religion is responsible for much of our grief.
Mar 20, 2010 10:21pm
GoChiefs's avatar

GoChiefs

Resident Maniac

16,754 posts
Mar 20, 2010 10:27 PM
FairwoodKing wrote: I didn't start this thread for your amusement.
Might not have been the intent..but that was the result.
Mar 20, 2010 10:27pm
U

Upper90

Senior Member

1,095 posts
Mar 20, 2010 10:29 PM
Yeah, I mean, needless to say...this thread has had moments of pure humor that have nothing to do with why the thread was started. But, I mean....it's 26 pages long, so that'll happen.
Mar 20, 2010 10:29pm
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
Mar 20, 2010 10:51 PM
Keebler wrote: I avoided this topic because I had no interest but I read pages 9-11 (50 replies per page) and I must say that those 3 pages may have been the most amusing 3 pages of this whole web site. Watching Dey and WeAreNC fight was outstanding. It just made my Saturday work day worth while.
I'm glad I could be of assistance!
Mar 20, 2010 10:51pm
RelsonGracieBJJ's avatar

RelsonGracieBJJ

Senior Member

528 posts
Mar 20, 2010 10:59 PM
As Gays you deserve only the same rights as anyone else. Quit being pretentious and acting like you deserve special rights.
Mar 20, 2010 10:59pm
Lovejoy1984's avatar

Lovejoy1984

Senior Member

5,277 posts
Mar 20, 2010 11:14 PM
RelsonGracieBJJ wrote: As Gays you deserve only the same rights as anyone else. Quit being pretentious and acting like you deserve special rights.
See that's what they are after, the same rights as everyone else, which is something that they currently do not have. That's what Fairwood and other homosexuals are asking for, the same rights you and I have as straight men. Not once did I see him see he deserves anything special, he/they what what everyone else has.
Mar 20, 2010 11:14pm
RelsonGracieBJJ's avatar

RelsonGracieBJJ

Senior Member

528 posts
Mar 20, 2010 11:19 PM
Well I am not trying to deny him of any rights that anyone else has..
Mar 20, 2010 11:19pm
Lovejoy1984's avatar

Lovejoy1984

Senior Member

5,277 posts
Mar 20, 2010 11:22 PM
RelsonGracieBJJ wrote: Well I am not trying to deny him of any rights that anyone else has..
You're not, but other have, and continue to do so, which is the point of this thread.
Mar 20, 2010 11:22pm