Homosexuality vs. religion

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RelsonGracieBJJ's avatar

RelsonGracieBJJ

Senior Member

528 posts
Mar 20, 2010 11:24 PM
Well what does fairwood or anyone being gay have to do with anyone else? They are not hurting me (a sgraight guy) in any way.. No need to hurt him.
Mar 20, 2010 11:24pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 20, 2010 11:39 PM
HighRoller74 wrote:
RelsonGracieBJJ wrote: As Gays you deserve only the same rights as anyone else. Quit being pretentious and acting like you deserve special rights.
See that's what they are after, the same rights as everyone else, which is something that they currently do not have. That's what Fairwood and other homosexuals are asking for, the same rights you and I have as straight men. Not once did I see him see he deserves anything special, he/they what what everyone else has.
Thank you, HighRoller. That is exactly what I have been trying to say.

I'll give you an example. In many states, I could be fired from a job if they found out I was gay. I could also be thrown out of an apartment for solely the same reason. This would never happen to straight people.

I'm one of the fortunate ones. I live in a state where I cannot be discriminated against for being gay. But my gay brothers and sisters in many states do not have these same rights. We don't want any special rights. We just want to be left alone to live our lives in peace.
Mar 20, 2010 11:39pm
RelsonGracieBJJ's avatar

RelsonGracieBJJ

Senior Member

528 posts
Mar 20, 2010 11:55 PM
Fairwood I was not trying to dis you. Your life is just that .. YOUR LIFE. has no influence or effect on anyone else. Or at least it should not.
Mar 20, 2010 11:55pm
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

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5,122 posts
Mar 21, 2010 2:43 AM
FairwoodKing wrote: I'll give you an example. In many states, I could be fired from a job if they found out I was gay. I could also be thrown out of an apartment for solely the same reason. This would never happen to straight people..
People are thrown out of apartments and fired form their jobs for a variety of reasons. In most situations this should not happen because someone is gay. Can you provide any examples of these situations so a clear judgment can be made?
FairwoodKing wrote: I'm one of the fortunate ones. I live in a state where I cannot be discriminated against for being gay. But my gay brothers and sisters in many states do not have these same rights. We don't want any special rights. We just want to be left alone to live our lives in peace.
Your gay brothers and sisters are just as fortunate as you. They live in the same nation as you do. They have the same freedom as you and can move to your state. Just as you did.
Mar 21, 2010 2:43am
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 21, 2010 2:53 AM
majorspark wrote:
FairwoodKing wrote: I'll give you an example. In many states, I could be fired from a job if they found out I was gay. I could also be thrown out of an apartment for solely the same reason. This would never happen to straight people..
People are thrown out of apartments and fired form their jobs for a variety of reasons. In most situations this should not happen because someone is gay. Can you provide any examples of these situations so a clear judgment can be made?
FairwoodKing wrote: I'm one of the fortunate ones. I live in a state where I cannot be discriminated against for being gay. But my gay brothers and sisters in many states do not have these same rights. We don't want any special rights. We just want to be left alone to live our lives in peace.
Your gay brothers and sisters are just as fortunate as you. They live in the same nation as you do. They have the same freedom as you and can move to your state. Just as you did.
This is not true. Many people cannot afford to move to another state. And just because they live in the same nation doesn't mean a thing. Different states have very different laws about gay rights. Arkansas, for example, just passed a law (through the voters) prohibiting gays from adopting children. Yet here in Washington gay couples are welcome to adopt.

[/b]
Mar 21, 2010 2:53am
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

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5,122 posts
Mar 21, 2010 3:21 AM
FairwoodKing wrote: This is not true. Many people cannot afford to move to another state. And just because they live in the same nation doesn't mean a thing. Different states have very different laws about gay rights. Arkansas, for example, just passed a law (through the voters) prohibiting gays from adopting children. Yet here in Washington gay couples are welcome to adopt.
I know different states have different laws. If you can't live under the laws your state has you have the freedom to leave. Cancel the cell phone for a few months and buy a plane ticket. Or a several tanks of gas. I am not saying moving is without sacrifice. It is a choice. The individual weighs the consequences and has the freedom to make his decision. No one forces anyone to live in their state. I have yet to see a Berlin Wall formed around any state in the union.
Mar 21, 2010 3:21am
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 21, 2010 6:47 PM
majorspark wrote:
FairwoodKing wrote: This is not true. Many people cannot afford to move to another state. And just because they live in the same nation doesn't mean a thing. Different states have very different laws about gay rights. Arkansas, for example, just passed a law (through the voters) prohibiting gays from adopting children. Yet here in Washington gay couples are welcome to adopt.
I know different states have different laws. If you can't live under the laws your state has you have the freedom to leave. Cancel the cell phone for a few months and buy a plane ticket. Or a several tanks of gas. I am not saying moving is without sacrifice. It is a choice. The individual weighs the consequences and has the freedom to make his decision. No one forces anyone to live in their state. I have yet to see a Berlin Wall formed around any state in the union.
You're missing the point. It shouldn't be necessary for anyone to move from one state to another just to get equal rights. These rights should be available in every state in the union.
Mar 21, 2010 6:47pm
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

Senior Member

5,122 posts
Mar 21, 2010 8:11 PM
FairwoodKing wrote: You're missing the point. It shouldn't be necessary for anyone to move from one state to another just to get equal rights. These rights should be available in every state in the union.
You are missing the point. This is a nation of 300 million people. We all have differing opinions on morality. What you want is a national rule that all peoples must except. I accept that we have differing beliefs and opinions and have no desire to force another state or locality to fit my moral compass.

Take same sex marriage. If you wanted to force a national solution, the odds would not be in your favor. Only 5 states have same sex marriage. Some allow some sort of legal union. The vast majority 31 outright ban it. Federal law defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman. If you had a national solution by force of the federal government, those 5 states that allow same sex marriage would be forced to disallow it.

Take another similar moral issue. Why should a woman not be able to provide sexual services to men and receive monetary compensation? These laws are made because of people's opinions on morality. Because of the power the states and localities possess a single county in Nevada allows women this freedom. The most powerful nation in the world constitutionally can not stop it.

Be thankful you live in a nation that allows this balance of power. Otherwise you would not have the right to legally marry anywhere in this country.
Mar 21, 2010 8:11pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 21, 2010 10:13 PM
majorspark wrote:
FairwoodKing wrote: You're missing the point. It shouldn't be necessary for anyone to move from one state to another just to get equal rights. These rights should be available in every state in the union.
You are missing the point. This is a nation of 300 million people. We all have differing opinions on morality. What you want is a national rule that all peoples must except. I accept that we have differing beliefs and opinions and have no desire to force another state or locality to fit my moral compass.

Take same sex marriage. If you wanted to force a national solution, the odds would not be in your favor. Only 5 states have same sex marriage. Some allow some sort of legal union. The vast majority 31 outright ban it. Federal law defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman. If you had a national solution by force of the federal government, those 5 states that allow same sex marriage would be forced to disallow it.

Take another similar moral issue. Why should a woman not be able to provide sexual services to men and receive monetary compensation? These laws are made because of people's opinions on morality. Because of the power the states and localities possess a single county in Nevada allows women this freedom. The most powerful nation in the world constitutionally can not stop it.

Be thankful you live in a nation that allows this balance of power. Otherwise you would not have the right to legally marry anywhere in this country.
Just because 31 states deny legal gay relationships doesn't make it right. Your ideas on morality should not dictate my rights. In a democracy, the majority is supposed to protect the rights of the minority. In most parts of this country, this is not happening.

We responsible gay people are going to continue to demand our rights, and we won't be satisfied until we get them.
Mar 21, 2010 10:13pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Mar 21, 2010 10:21 PM
Yeah, but we live in a republic. A democratic republic.
Mar 21, 2010 10:21pm
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

Senior Member

5,122 posts
Mar 22, 2010 12:10 AM
FairwoodKing wrote: Just because 31 states deny legal gay relationships doesn't make it right.
If you don't believe in the Bible the definition of right and wrong lies in the hands of the government. They make the laws. Majority rule in legislatures are how laws are made.

My argument is do we want one legislature in Washington defining what is right and wrong or do we want many in individual states and localities? Leaving you with the freedom to chose to live under the legislature of your choice. There is no guarantee that the legislature in Washington will rule in your favor. In fact they have done just the opposite.
FairwoodKing wrote: Your ideas on morality should not dictate my rights. In a democracy, the majority is supposed to protect the rights of the minority. In most parts of this country, this is not happening.
Your ideas on morality should not dictate the society in which I choose to live. So who resolves this issue? Government by majority rule in the legislature with the signing of approval of the executive.
FairwoodKing wrote: We responsible gay people are going to continue to demand our rights, and we won't be satisfied until we get them.
Federal law currently prohibits recognition of gay marriage. I would say your best avenue is to work with the individual state governments. Just be tolerant of those that may disagree with you. I will never advocate my beliefs on this issue be mandated by law on any other state or locality other than that which I reside.
Mar 22, 2010 12:10am
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Mar 22, 2010 6:00 AM
Why are so many people so fucking stupid?

Why can't we just coexist so we can actually focus on real problems that we face here? Unreal that some people seem to think the fact that someone is gay is one of those real problems. It's just hard to even fathom that I live along side such stupid human beings.
Mar 22, 2010 6:00am
N

Nate

Formerly Known As Keebler

3,949 posts
Mar 22, 2010 9:10 AM
FairwoodKing wrote:
Keebler wrote: I avoided this topic because I had no interest but I read pages 9-11 (50 replies per page) and I must say that those 3 pages may have been the most amusing 3 pages of this whole web site. Watching Dey and WeAreNC fight was outstanding. It just made my Saturday work day worth while.
I didn't start this thread for your amusement. I started it because we gay people have serious issues. Organized religion is responsible for much of our grief.
I don't care about the issue at hand. I don't give 2 flying fucks for either. I'm laughing at the battle between DeyDurkie and WeAreNC. If you are offended by my post because I thought it was funny, you must be gay.
Mar 22, 2010 9:10am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Mar 22, 2010 11:17 AM
FairwoodKing wrote:

Thank you, HighRoller. That is exactly what I have been trying to say.

I'll give you an example. In many states, I could be fired from a job if they found out I was gay. I could also be thrown out of an apartment for solely the same reason. This would never happen to straight people.

I'm one of the fortunate ones. I live in a state where I cannot be discriminated against for being gay. But my gay brothers and sisters in many states do not have these same rights. We don't want any special rights. We just want to be left alone to live our lives in peace.
You are stretching the truth at best, lying at worst.

You know how hard it is to evict someone even for good reasons, let alone for reasons that can get you sued?

You and I both know that in any state if I kick someone out of of an apartment because of their sexual orientation they can sue me and will win.

You are asking for "more" rights if you are clamouring for hate crime legislation.
Mar 22, 2010 11:17am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Mar 22, 2010 11:22 AM
SQ_Crazies wrote: Why are so many people so fucking stupid?

Why can't we just coexist so we can actually focus on real problems that we face here? Unreal that some people seem to think the fact that someone is gay is one of those real problems. It's just hard to even fathom that I live along side such stupid human beings.
Have you even read the thread? Most of us (save 1 guy) have not shown anything but the fact that we can "coexist" just fine, we are just discussing the topic at hand.
Mar 22, 2010 11:22am
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GoChiefs

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16,754 posts
Mar 22, 2010 5:05 PM
FairwoodKing wrote: We responsible gay people are going to continue to demand our rights, and we won't be satisfied until we get them.
Prepare to never be satisfied in your lifetime. :)
Mar 22, 2010 5:05pm
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newarkcatholicfan

Senior Member

3,199 posts
Mar 22, 2010 5:20 PM
Put them on their own island and one big bomb will correct this mistake.
Mar 22, 2010 5:20pm
GoPens's avatar

GoPens

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2,339 posts
Mar 22, 2010 5:31 PM
^^^Is this idiot back?
Mar 22, 2010 5:31pm
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FatHobbit

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8,651 posts
Mar 22, 2010 6:15 PM
GoPens wrote: ^^^Is this idiot back?
He couldn't make it in the big leagues.
Mar 22, 2010 6:15pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 22, 2010 10:16 PM
jmog wrote:
FairwoodKing wrote:

Thank you, HighRoller. That is exactly what I have been trying to say.

I'll give you an example. In many states, I could be fired from a job if they found out I was gay. I could also be thrown out of an apartment for solely the same reason. This would never happen to straight people.

I'm one of the fortunate ones. I live in a state where I cannot be discriminated against for being gay. But my gay brothers and sisters in many states do not have these same rights. We don't want any special rights. We just want to be left alone to live our lives in peace.
You are stretching the truth at best, lying at worst.

You know how hard it is to evict someone even for good reasons, let alone for reasons that can get you sued?

You and I both know that in any state if I kick someone out of of an apartment because of their sexual orientation they can sue me and will win.

You are asking for "more" rights if you are clamouring for hate crime legislation.
I'm not stretching the truth and I certainly am not lying. We gay people have had to put up with this shit for a long time and we are fed up.

If you knew anything at all, you would know that gay people have had to face adversity for many hundreds of years. The Catholics used to burn us at the stake. The Nazis sent us to die in concentration camps. The Soviets sent us to the Gulag. In today's Uganda, we are hanged solely for being gay because the Bible says we are sinners. In this country as recently as fifty years ago, gay men and lesbians were required to register with the police. The Klan attacked us. Until very recently, gay sex was illegal in Texas and gays and lesbians were arrested. And in most states today, gays are denied the same rights as heterosexuals in housing and jobs as well as many different legal issues.

This is why people like me are fighting. I don't expect to see full gay rights in the U.S. in my lifetime, but I will continue to fight for them.
Mar 22, 2010 10:16pm
GoPens's avatar

GoPens

Senior Member

2,339 posts
Mar 22, 2010 10:17 PM
FatHobbit wrote:
GoPens wrote: ^^^Is this idiot back?
He couldn't make it in the big leagues.
Better question is WHY is this idiot back??
Mar 22, 2010 10:17pm
U

Upper90

Senior Member

1,095 posts
Mar 22, 2010 10:18 PM
Not that I don't think the cause is worthy, and likely side with the cause in all forms....I do think that there's a danger of going a bit overboard when one is passionate.

I suppose my question is this, and color me uninformed, but....what states can you be evicted from an apartment, just for being homosexual, and what are some examples of this playing out?

I've just never heard of it occurring, with THAT being the singular and actual reason behind it, but I'm not on the pulse, I suppose.
Mar 22, 2010 10:18pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 23, 2010 12:35 AM
Upper90 wrote: Not that I don't think the cause is worthy, and likely side with the cause in all forms....I do think that there's a danger of going a bit overboard when one is passionate.

I suppose my question is this, and color me uninformed, but....what states can you be evicted from an apartment, just for being homosexual, and what are some examples of this playing out?

I've just never heard of it occurring, with THAT being the singular and actual reason behind it, but I'm not on the pulse, I suppose.
There are 31 states (including Ohio) that do not include sexual orientation as a category protected from discrimination. It is true that many progressive companies do have this written in their non-discrimination policies, but the protections still do not come from the states.
Mar 23, 2010 12:35am
U

Upper90

Senior Member

1,095 posts
Mar 23, 2010 12:49 AM
Understandable. But what I was asking for were specific examples of the type of discrimination that you were claiming was going on.
Mar 23, 2010 12:49am
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Mar 23, 2010 8:55 AM
Getting kicked out of a house or an apt., I would imagine that in some cases, a HA might be able to dictate what sort of people they do or not not want living in their neighborhood (?)
I lived in a HA before but as far as I can tell, they were just worried about how high you let your grass grow, so I'm not sure about that.

There's also some states that ban sex between 2 people if it isn't the missionary position. But, the law is ancient and basically isn't payed attention to. Maybe us straight people ought to get hopping mad over this, because it means we can get arrested for riding, wheelbarrowing, swinging, doggie, etc.
Mar 23, 2010 8:55am