Can't argue with any of that. You raise legitimate questions which, I am sure the coaching staff will be trying to find the answers to before next December rolls around. Having sophs become juniors will help some, but I think there will be some plan to toughen them up while not destroying their confidence. I think it has been implied that if the team needs something, like toughness, it is the coach's responsibility to get it done. And I agree that Coach will probably be harder on himself than any critic can be.

I especially agree with you about Jalen. His heart and toughness needs to be cloned and spread out.

I meant to mention too that Hiland has lost, what, 5 games in 2 years and won 44? Yes, there are problems but everyone needs to keep perspective. I'm most interested in what life lessons these kids are learning through basketball on their way to being men. I have a hard time recalling who won the IVC 5 years ago or how far Hiland went in the tournament, but I love seeing kids who have gone through the program who are now successful because of, at least in part, what they learned from their playing experience. Ultimately, it has to be about that, not wins and losses. A coach's biggest legacy is in what his players walk away with that he has invested in them.

I think the biggest problem Hiland had was there was no leadership! You can't rely on a sophmore to lead you ALL the time. Schlabach is a lot better coach than Troyer was or would have ever been! And for your information Troyer did not get fired. His contract simply did not get renewed. There is a difference. Next year should be better with Jalen and Josh being seniors. I felt that conn could never get the job done at point! Probably one of the worst PG's I've seen! But it's is all done and over with and looking forward to next year!

Getting fired or not having a contract renewed is a distinction without a difference! The result was the same.

I'm thrilled that Mark is here. Did things for my son that I can never repay him for, so he's got my loyalty no matter what. Is he perfect? No. He makes mistakes, but who doesn't?

Braden is "probably the worst PG" you've seen? You need to watch more basketball. Remember, these are kids and they read our drivel. There were things he did really well this year and some things he didn't, but I think he'll be real solid next year.

to their credit, most of them probably don't read this drivel. But if they did they don't deserve to read that they're "one of the worst point gurards". That's certainly your right to have that opinion (one I don't happen to share btw), but no reason to post it publicly.
And you're right Pariah. It's not easy to remember that this is basketball we're talking about, not life, death, salvation---things are that are truly important. we need to keep things in perspective. it's good , at least for me personally, to remember that.

I watch basketball enough, I played, there are guys on that team that could do better at point that he could. I know a lot of people that share my opinion and some that don't....like you said jsut an opinion....but as a point guard he needed to be a better leader, not turn the ball over so much and score some more points. A point guard is the leader of the floor he did not have this at all. At some games that were close I could see people cringe when he got the ball in the closing minutes. I do know what I am talking about. Luke Burch has what it takes or even Josh Yoder if he wasn't such a good off guard. But I guess we'll see who sticks with it for next year. Already heard talk of a few quitting.

Shadyside 60
Rosecrans 57

vhawks87 wrote: Already heard talk of a few quitting.

Looks like the Holmes county rumor mill is in full production.

shadyside up big early then had to stave off bishops run. another classic game. great game heath brooks. rosecrans has nothing to hang their heads about. look for them to make serious noise next several years.

O'k Hawk fans, time to simmer down. Enough bashing of players and coaches. I think it's a shame that someone would come onto a forum like this and actually bash (blatantly mind you) a high school basketball player. Give it a rest vhakws87.

I can remember watching a Hiland team, number one seed at the Phila sect/dist tournament a few years back. Had a kid named Raber, Mishler twins, and few other young men. They lost to a team they never should have lost to. Jr raber was so upset, I can remember watching him toss his runner-up plaque across the gym floor in disgust. Right there, I knew what was going to happen. The following year, I was courtside broadcasting a state championship game that Hiland won. Jr Raber won the LCC game on his own (well, not quite), and i'm sure the driving factor was what happened the year before.

This is an extremely young Hawks team. Look out next year!!!

Side note......can someone start taking young Boyd out for meals please. I'll gladly buy his lunch on Sunday's at the Chalet in the Valley this coming year. Beef up young man, they need your frame down low too. Tell dad to give you some extra lunch money!! I think he can spare it.

hawks87...my point was not your--or other's--opinion of our point guard play, or of your basketball knowledge. I have no doubt you know the game well. Everyone can feel however they want of the players. All the players have strengths and a, and they all can improve in any number of areas; some players more than others. I'm well aware of that. My point was I didn't think this place--or any public forun--is the place to blatantly criticize any of the players, particularly calling them out by name. The coaches are at least getting paid to do this and it's their jobs (tho don't agree in publicly criticizing them as well), but the kids are out there trying as hard as they can and for the most part working their tails off. Do they always get the job done? of course not. Some games it's more apparent than others. But they don't deserve getting called out for their shortcomings. (Thanks 300 for your support). I hope 300 is right in that the kids and coaches will use this to get better, and maybe next year can improve in some areas. But if they don't, and fall short of everyone's expectations, I would hope people have the decency to give them the respect they deserve for putting in the hundreds of hours they do, and for the hard work they do.
And 300, I have good information that the young Boyd was out to dinner just tonite. And I'll mention the Sunday lunch deal to him next time I see him to see if he's game, not to mention have a talk with his dad to see if he can spare a few extra nickles for an extra sandwich at lunch!

Not a rumor this was from a close close source! And other ppl besides me have called out players so don't get up in my face. I'm not even going to digfnify any of you with a repsonse cuz you guys are too into HS stuff and not real life things...one downfall to the wonderful HC

Forgot to say congrats to Shadyside! You guys played with a lot of heart and had great leadership! Good Luck at Canton!

vhawks87 wrote: Not a rumor this was from a close close source! And other ppl besides me have called out players so don't get up in my face. I'm not even going to digfnify any of you with a repsonse cuz you guys are too into HS stuff and not real life things...one downfall to the wonderful HC

Spoken like a true hypocrite. You are on a high school forum voicing your opinion on high school basketball and not real life things as you say. Sounds like you may be into the HS stuff as well. If you are so into real life things grow yourself a pair and post them in the politics forum.

Haha... Before spark responded I was thinking similar things of Hawk87. Gonna go out on a limb - real long shot here - and guess the 87 in your screen name is when you were born, not when you graduated. And you should be ashamed, seriously. To say "the worst ever..." is absurd. You sound like a bitter 22/23 year old kid who lost your starting spot once upon a day. Unless your were an all-ohioan or named to the all-decade team for the DR recently, you sound like every bit the hypocrite spark called you out to be.


Sorry, probably would have been better off responding earlier on, but I was a bit busy the last few days, and the more of his crap I read... Well, you saw the result. And thanks 300... I think now that these guys have a bitter taste in their mouths, it could prove to be a good thing down the road. Hopefully the girls will prove that theory right next Saturday.

And my two cents on the PG thing... The staff obviously rewarded effort with time in the starting line up, which they should. The only two staples in the Hawks starting line up from game 1 to game 23 were Kaufman and Boyd. The other 3 spots could change from night to night. While a good motivating factor, I think it was far more difficult for continuity/confidence to be shuffled into and out of the PG spot than at the 2 or the 4. Braden and Chaise Gerber shared time, pretty equally mid season, and that changes the dynamic quite a bit from a leadership standpoint.

There's also an implied assumption that a PG has to be a leader. It's nice when they are, but leaders are leaders because they lead and others follow. It's an intrinsic trait that can be developed but not created. I've seen coaches appoint leaders who didn't have the trait and it was disastrous. A PG needs to get the ball into the frontcourt, avoid TO's, get the team into their offense, focus on assists, play tenacious defense, and knock down FT's at the end of a close game. If they are also a leader and scorer, that's a plus, but they don't have to be to be successful at the position. I wish we could clone Jason Mishler and have one of him every year, but we are talking about a rare talent there.

As for kids quitting, or thinking about quitting, that's been going on every year with every coach from Perry to Mark. Nothing new or notable about it.

Just becuasE I know these things doesn't make me a hypocrite just becuase I know someone close to the program and hear all the chatter. That could be all but we know how HS boys are. Pariah I would watch the Mishler talk cuz he's the main reason boys are wanting to quit....but like everyone says what would I know I'm a mad hypocrite kid that lost my starting spot hahahaha....We'll see who has it next November when practice starts.

tflangel - I didn't say he was the worst ever, I would compare him with Hilands '96 PG mullet which isn't a good thing. But again my opinion so you can hate on me all you want just an opinion I know many ppl around me share!

vhawks87 wrote: I felt that conn could never get the job done at point! Probably one of the worst PG's I've seen!

vhawks87 wrote: Just becuasE I know these things doesn't make me a hypocrite just becuase I know someone close to the program and hear all the chatter. but like everyone says what would I know I'm a mad hypocrite kid that lost my starting spot hahahaha....We'll see who has it next November when practice starts.

tflangel - I didn't say he was the worst ever, I would compare him with Hilands '96 PG mullet which isn't a good thing.

Ok, so you only said he's 'one of the worst.' That's like the kind of difference betwen a non-renewal of a contract and being fired, right? Still don't see it, except that maybe the ones a bit cleaner. We all know that situation was anything but...

Although I highly doubt you'll take it, I'm going to offer you some advice as someone who has put my own foot in my mouth a time or two online - JUST BECAUSE YOU KNOW SOMETHING, DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD SAY IT.

And the way you talk, its as if your the only one on here who has any kind of an 'in' with the program. It comes off as arrogant, and if some of they guys were having a gut-check on Thursday morning, they had every right to it. When you see success, the time spent is worth it. They fell short of what they hoped to accomplish this year, and they have every right to question whether or not its worthwhile. If someone decides they don't want to put the time in, that's their choice. But if we have some notables deciding not to play next year, it will have nothing to do with us and will not make you the know-all, end-all of Hiland basketball.

VH87, I wish you hadn't brought that up about Jason, but since its out there... As a player, Jason was everything you want. He had all the qualities that the team as a whole had trouble with this year. They had to try to toughen those kids up. You try to not have your head coach be the heavy, the "yell coach", all the time so an assistant does it. It's not personal and the yell coach has the players' best interest at heart, but he's willing to allow the players to dislike him if it gets them to where they need to go. They'll grow up and thank him later. The problem here is that some of these kids were so sensitive that they didn't get tough, they got their self-esteem damaged. Still, they have to get to the point where they won't allow some yelling to do that to them. They'll face worse out in the world.

So, its a role Jason played and whatever he did, it was done to help them. The boys need to stop resenting him and start emulating his desire to win, toughness, and effort. Usually the person that is trying to help you is the one telling you hard truths.

Doesn't mean that I would defend everything that was done to try to toughen them up because I don't know everything. But I do know this, the problem here lies within those kids, and if they are focused on what a coach is doing to try to help them as the problem, they won't get it, so maybe they should quit.

You toughen kids up by putting psychological pressure on them and making them suffer together which creates unity around that common suffering. The military has been successfully doing it for centuries. Problem is parents today do everything they can to spare little johnny stress and suffering, so a coach has to try to do it and then gets criticized for it.

Now, let's not put any more of this dirty laundry out there. It's unseemly.

i would guess i might have some "inside information" here as well, in fact probably have had some along the year as well. I'll chose not to relate ANY of it here. I'll agree with some of what has been mentioned here, and disagree with others. Some of the comments are spot on, others are quite off the mark--at least from my perspective. I'll agree publicly with tflo's comment: knowing info is not always a good reason to post it. And some opinions are better not posted as well, e.g.when they call out any one player, regardless of what team they play for. that's the main issue I have with vhawks' posts. I don't recall anyone else "calling out" a specific hiland player by name before--if so i probably would have commented on it. Someone made a comment about Strasburg's Bonifant. to the effect as he came across a bit conceited. Don't condone that talk either, but that's different than saying some player is "the worst I've seen".
as for kids quitting, it could happen. almost every year, one or more players quit at some level: frosh, jv, or varsity. they all have their reasons, but i would imagine it basically comes down to deciding the amount of work and time they have to put into the sport for one reason or another isn't worth it to them.some reasons may seem much more legitimate to us "outsiders" than others, but if the student athlete is okay with his decision, far be it from me or us to second guess them.
i will say there is a fine line that is difficult to establish for different players as far as motivation is concerned. Without a doubt it takes an unbelievable amount of hard work and dedication to get to a championship level in high school basketball. beyond that it also takes a "toughness" and desire , some of which players inherently have to some extent, and some of which can/needs to be taught. I'm not sure myself how to do that--i guess that's what makes a good coach, knowing/discovering hoew best to get that across to players, knowing each one responds differently.
It's been mentioned on these forums several times that it's easy to forget that basketball is not the most important thing in the world. If it's not the most important thing in the world for us adults/parents/community members, it would be disingenuous to assume that it needs to be that for the athlete. Without a doubt the athlete needs to make un unbeliavble amount of sacrifices to get to the championship level. And unbelievable amount of time spent playing ball and all that entails--weights, shooting, conditioning, etc. keeping at that hard work and having a level of commitment that is apprpriate...I guess we'll see if that can be found.
and agree with Pariah. probably time to put all this to rest and let the next 12 months play out as they will.

I saw a Mast Truck going through Parksburg WV today......New Coach...? - LMAO

Not too many people will get that, but that is pretty good right there.

shadyside 28 mcdonald 25 half

final shadyside 65 mcdonald 49

Good deal. Now hopefully, they can beat Bedford.