Why would anyone think Tiger telling you to buy a buick would actually equate to people buying buicks? Maybe golf supplies, but anything else I just don't see the appeal...

Derek, I think most of the money Buick spent on Tiger was just to get their logo on his golf bag.

lhslep134 wrote: Derek, I think most of the money Buick spent on Tiger was just to get their logo on his golf bag.

how about schick/gillettte (sp) razors? I just don't see the appeal. I don't know anyone who would buy a car or a razor because Tiger is in a commercial.

Tiger's first mistake: getting married. You're a young professional athlete who's amazingly popular...one of the most famous, recognizable figures in the world. You made golf something more than a pastime of old dudes with horrible fashion sense. What you SHOULD do is bang every hot chick that you see. Your idea of a long-term relationship should be two-three weeks. And then, when you're 50 or so and more Senior PGA material than anything else, you marry some 25-year-old bimbo (you want her to be dumb and trusting because, like there's any way you're actually going to miraculously change your ways and suddenly become reliable and faithful), so you can blast out a kid or two before dying.

Tiger's second mistake: this press conference. So, you've been outed as a whoredog. Big deal. Instead of being mock-sorry that you like pussy and lots of it with sex rehab (WTF?!?) and lame press conferences, you revel in this. You come to your press conference with a stripper under each arm and drunk John Daly as your advisor and give a brief statement like "Hells yeah, THE TIGER'S BACK bitches! Time to start kickin' ass on the course and tappin' ass off it!" Far more respectable.

Con_Alma wrote: There's a difference between Arnie taking golf mainstream and Tiger pushing tour salaries measurably higher than before he arrived.

They are two different points.

How do you get big purses? From sponsors.
Who got the sponsors there? Arnie.

Facepalm all you want but it doesn't change the fact that if theres no Arnold Palmer, there's no Jack Nicklaus or Tiger Woods. Both Jack and Tiger could tear it up on tour an no one would notice or care b/c there was no Arnold Palmer to put golf out there. If golf is not mainstream, there's no money. It was Arnie who got golf coverage. It was Arnie who got countless sponsorships. It was Arnie who got people interested in the game. Jack and Tiger are/were great athletes who got even more attention AFTER Arnie got it mainstream, but if not for Palmer then it's all for not.

In 1996 before Tiger their were 8 guys who earned 1 million that season.

In 2009 there were 91 players who earned a million.

Hard not to draw a correlation between Tiger's arrival and the exploding of purses.

ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote: Facepalm all you want but it doesn't change the fact that if theres no Arnold Palmer, there's no Jack Nicklaus or Tiger Woods. Both Jack and Tiger could tear it up on tour an no one would notice or care b/c there was no Arnold Palmer to put golf out there. If golf is not mainstream, there's no money. It was Arnie who got golf coverage. It was Arnie who got countless sponsorships. It was Arnie who got people interested in the game. Jack and Tiger are/were great athletes who got even more attention AFTER Arnie got it mainstream, but if not for Palmer then it's all for not.

Apparently you are so blinded by making your point that you can't even see that I am agreeing with you.

Arnie brought golf to the mainstream with sponsors. It is the foundation for all the large revenue realized today in the sport. Is that easier to understand???

On an additional note.....

Con_Alma wrote:

ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote: Facepalm all you want but it doesn't change the fact that if theres no Arnold Palmer, there's no Jack Nicklaus or Tiger Woods. Both Jack and Tiger could tear it up on tour an no one would notice or care b/c there was no Arnold Palmer to put golf out there. If golf is not mainstream, there's no money. It was Arnie who got golf coverage. It was Arnie who got countless sponsorships. It was Arnie who got people interested in the game. Jack and Tiger are/were great athletes who got even more attention AFTER Arnie got it mainstream, but if not for Palmer then it's all for not.

Apparently you are so blinded by making your point that you can't even see that I am agreeing with you.

That wasn't directed to you, it was to Thunder and his facepalm picture.

So again, which came first, Arnies Army or the sponsorships?

Was the sponsorships a result of his "Army" or the other way around?

ytownfootball wrote: So again, which came first, Arnies Army or the sponsorships?

Was the sponsorships a result of his "Army" or the other way around?

The sponsorships came after Arnie actively sought after them, well after his prime. He did it selflessly so that people like Jack and Tiger could prosper. No one will ever do more for the game than Palmer.

ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote:

That wasn't directed to you, it was to Thunder and his facepalm picture.

My apologies.

IggyPride00 wrote: In 1996 before Tiger their were 8 guys who earned 1 million that season.

In 2009 there were 91 players who earned a million.

Hard not to draw a correlation between Tiger's arrival and the exploding of purses.

And who paid for the purses? The PGA isn't some sort of mechanism that automatically burps out money. A large part of the tour financials are sponsors.

ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote:

ytownfootball wrote: So again, which came first, Arnies Army or the sponsorships?

Was the sponsorships a result of his "Army" or the other way around?

The sponsorships came after Arnie actively sought after them, well after his prime. He did it selflessly so that people like Jack and Tiger could prosper. No one will ever do more for the game than Palmer.

And, honestly, I don't disagree. But the point is that there needs to be a following in order to be followed by sponsorships. Woods has had a huge following all the way back to college. Just because it's been done before doesn't mean it can't be done again, a rebirth if you will.

You can't just discount the resurgence and prosperity of the game because it's already been done.

But the path was already laid out for him. All Tiger had to do was come out and win. Arnie won for years before anyone noticed or cared and he still didn't make shit off of wins. Same goes for Jack... He can thank Arnie for the purses he won. Neither Tiger nor Jack had to do anything besides win... thanks to Arnie.

^^^ You Arnold's grandson or something chief????

True. Arnie laid the framework, not questioning that at all. I've got a lot of respect for Arnie as an ambassador of the game, anyone who doesn't doesn't realize the true impact he had. The only point I'm making has to do with the end result, that being, larger purses, more sponsorships and an overall increased interest in the game. It can't be denied that Woods is the face of the resurgence.

No.. just unlike 99% of America (and this board), I've followed the tour religiously my whole life, and not just when the media shoved Tiger Woods down my throat.

Zwick, since you blatantly ignored facts the first time, here:
http://www.golfblogger.com/index.php/golf/comments/analyzing_increase_in_pga_tour_purses/

Tiger's popularity has lead to a 200% increase in golf purses.

Arnold Palmer had NOTHING to do with it. If anything, it's the current state of sports, with every advertiser trying to get their name WHEREVER possible, that lead to golf realizing this, and with Tiger's popularity, capitalized on it.

You are wrong. If your high and mighty self can't realize that then I kinda feel sorry for you. Did Arnold Palmer help change the game 35 years ago? Yes. But did he have ANYTHING to do with the post 1996 boom of golf? NO!

lhslep - ur link is worthless b/c it ignores the fact that golf didn't have a superstar since Jack before Tiger. If you're going with the stance that Tiger raised purses 200% from when he started till now, then you have to go back to when Nicklaus was in his prime and did the same exact thing... and who the next superstar will do after Tiger. and the one after that and so on and so forth. The point remains that none of these superstars would have the purses if Arnie didn't get the sponsors there in the first place.

lhslep134 wrote:

Arnold Palmer had NOTHING to do with it. If anything, it's the current state of sports, with every advertiser trying to get their name WHEREVER possible, that lead to golf realizing this, and with Tiger's popularity, capitalized on it.

You're getting into why Tiger became so popular which is an entirely different issue imo.

I understand Zwicks disdain for Woods, he's taken the spotlight even when undeserving. Much of the time due to him also removing much of the disparity of the game, but nonetheless, ESPN and the like hang off his nutsack to the point of hilarity.

Maybe it's because I've only been golfing since I was 4 (1993) and been truly paying attention since I went to the 1996 US open at Oakland Hills when Steve Jones won, but how else can you explain a pretty consistent interest in golf between Palmer and Nicklaus' time until Tiger's time, then a huge explosion?

First Tee program? Started in 1997
200% increase in total purses: Started in 1997


Arnold Palmer is still an ambassador to the game, and he's a walking tribute to the hard work he put forth in the past. But that doesn't mean he contributed to Tiger's popularity boom. Tiger earned it himself.

And also, it wasn't just Palmer, it was the BIG THREE who helped golf boom earlier in the 60's and 70's...Palmer, Nicklaus, and Player, so at the very least give credit to those as well.

And Zwick, if golf isn't about business, like every other professional sport, then why would Arnold drop Tiger's name from his tournament?

It can't be for golf reasons. It must be because he thought he would lose business by associating himself (at the time) with Tiger amidst a scandal.

That certainly sounds very business like to me, and I'm pretty sure that the PGA Tour as a whole runs themselves like a business, doing whatever they can to turn a profit, and that includes sponsorships, and acting like a business is also something that Arnold Palmer has NOTHING to do with.

In your fantasy world you can believe Arnold Palmer did all of this and all of that, but in reality, he was about as popular as they come, the FIRST hugely popular golfer, and from a BUSINESS aspect it made a lot of sense to start using sponsors that would pay.

I explain it b/c golf had horrible ratings post Nicklaus/Pre Tiger. There was no casual interest b/c there was no one out there dominating. Tiger brought the interest back when he started whoopin that ass and obviously got the media attention again which brought back the money.

Nicklaus and Player were instrumental in promoting golf thru their golf games when they played(much like Tiger)... Arnie actively promoted golf after his prime and on his own dime. He went to the major corporations and pushed golf sponsorship. He went to the NBC's and pushed golf coverage... Jack didn't, Gary didn't.