In Dallas' defense, his presence can't be measured in numbers. Lauderdale is intimidating in the paint and alters a lot of shots. As soon as he went out of the game, Iowa became a lot more aggressive in driving to the basket and points in the paint, which wouldn't have been the case if he were in the game.

Again, not a knock on Madsen, but he's not the defensive presence that Lauderdale is, even if Lauderdales box score has too many zeros.

I won't disagree that Lauderdale played bad though, his last foul was just a bonehead play. He's got to be smarter than that.

thedynasty1998 wrote: In Dallas' defense, his presence can't be measured in numbers. Lauderdale is intimidating in the paint and alters a lot of shots. As soon as he went out of the game, Iowa became a lot more aggressive in driving to the basket and points in the paint, which wouldn't have been the case if he were in the game.

Again, not a knock on Madsen, but he's not the defensive presence that Lauderdale is, even if Lauderdales box score has too many zeros.

I won't disagree that Lauderdale played bad though, his last foul was just a bonehead play. He's got to be smarter than that.

Again, I agree about his presence, no question about that. But again, he is 6'8", with the wingspan of a 7'5" player....I realize he is far from a great rebounder(bad hands), but at this size with his reach and leaping ability....there is absolutely NO excuse for him to get only 1 rebound. Thast the disapointing thing to me.
Luckily this year, OSU is holding their own in the rebounding department. MSU is waiting in the shadows though...and rebounding will be the difference in that game on whether OSU can compete/win or not. They will need more then Turner to do his thing against those athletes.

BTW, the samething you just pointed out about Dallas, his presence can't be measured in the box score....is no different then Diebler and his ability to shoot/extend a defense, open up lanes and shots for others. Its all relative.

I disagree with Diebler's presence. I think that you are giving him way too much credit. I understand the significance a shooter can have on defenses and spacing, but I don't think Diebler is that big of a threat.

And I don't know if coaches change their strategy on him as the game progresses, but when he hits his first couple shots, you better have someone in his face the entire game, because he can be a game changer.

However, if he misses his first few, you don't need to be nearly as worried because he won't be nearly as aggressive.

That's another problem I have with him, he let's his last shot affect him too much. He needs to be unconscious and shoot it if he's open every single time.

thedynasty1998 wrote: I disagree with Diebler's presence. I think that you are giving him way too much credit. I understand the significance a shooter can have on defenses and spacing, but I don't think Diebler is that big of a threat.

Your hate towards Diebler is so transparent. Most every announcer, studio guys who have played the game, have commented on Diebler being one of the best 3pt shooters in the country, which he in fact is.(15th nationally made, as well as shooting 44%). That alone forces defenses to stay with him (which they do obviously), and that eliminates teams from being able to double on Turner and Buford. That my friend, is what Diebler creates, no question about it.

I'll say this, I'd rather OSU not have Diebler for a game than Lauderdale.

thedynasty1998 wrote: I'll say this, I'd rather OSU not have Diebler for a game than Lauderdale.

I'll second this one....I'll take the big guy underneath anyday over a one-dimensional shooting guard. Diebler is no threat off the dribble and struggles when he has a hand in his face. Not to sound like a broken record and continue to repeat what has been said on previous OSU threads, but Diebler does not contribute enough in assists and rebounds for my liking, but I do understand everyone's loyalty to him. He has had many big nights shooting for OSU, but I would just like to see him become a little more consistent - I think we will see that in him with his development this season and into his senior year next year.

thedynasty1998 wrote: I'll say this, I'd rather OSU not have Diebler for a game than Lauderdale.

That's a no-brainer. Even though your hatred of Diebler is pretty clear, I think even the biggest JD fans would agree with that statement. Though I think you underestimate Diebler's effect in opening lanes because of his outside shooting, Lauderdale's higher value over Diebler has more to do with the strengths and weaknesses of this team.

Lauderdale's inside teammates include a 6'9" center who wouldn't be considered athletic if he played for Capital and a 7 footer who can't even beat out the aforementioned unathletic center for minutes. Though Lauderdale brings a great physical presence and is a very good shot blocker, there is no denying he is an underachieving rebounder given his athleticism and his 45% free throw percentage (for the 2nd year in a row) is pathetic. It is an absolute killer when Turner or someone makes a great pass to Big D and he gets fouled and you just hope he can make one of two (which would bump up his lousy percentage). But with Madsen and Z as the other two inside options, Dallas is extremely valuable to this team. But maybe fans would be more critical of his weaknesses/limitations if Luke Babbit was here to play a true forward or Jared Sullinger was a year older and on the roster.

On the other hand, OSU's three best players play basically the same position as Jon Diebler (with Turner obviously being converted to PG). Though Diebler may be the 4th best player on the team, it's obvious losing him wouldn't hurt as bad when you have three of the best guards in the conference, including arguably the best player in the country. Also, if the situation was flip-flopped and the strength of this team was inside, instead of on the perimeter, maybe some OSU fans wouldn't be so critical of Diebler's weaknesses and limitations. I doubt it though. I have a couple of friends that I work with that if Diebler hit 6 threes @ East Lansing in a couple of weeks ot at home to Purdue next week, would point out the fact that he only had 2 rebounds and 0 assists. If it makes you feel any better dynasty, you're not the only one out there who likes to play the anti-Diebler broken record.

I agreee with that. I think that Diebler might be the better player, but Lauderdale is probably as valuable to this team as anyone other than Turner for the reasons you stated above.

Bottom line is OSU needs both Lauderdale and Diebler to be successful. They help Turner increase his assist totals.

killdeer wrote: was down at the Schott today...good solid game, though Thad didn't go very deep.
1. As said, vintage Turner game...excellent control of the game, such strong crossovers and ball movement; he is NBA-ready multi-tool player.
2. Diebler has looked better defensively the last few games. Could have put up 18-20 if some of his 2nd half 3's would have fallen.
3. I'm definitely not as familiar with the Hawkeyes, but Eric May impressed both inside and outside with some fine penetration, and knocking down some key 3's. This freshman may make some noise in the Big 10 over the next few years.
4. Iowa coach Lickliter's walk-on son is a little guy.
5. I think the Bucks can make a nice run in the tournement if Turner stays healthy and the key producers peak at the right time.

Why anybody plays at a school that has his dad as a coach is absolutely crazy.

It's a no win situation for the kid and the coach.

Even Press Maravich took a lot of heat in letting Pistol shoot 45 shots a game.