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Oh, Happy Day, Reds Fans! Taveras traded to Oakland!

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ Oh, Happy Day, Reds Fans! Taveras traded to Oakland!
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

In ROY I Trust!!

27,794 posts
Feb 2, 2010 3:50 AM
One thing at a time I92...one thing at a time...LOL
Feb 1, 2010 10:50pm
E

Eric Taylor

Senior Member

602 posts
Feb 2, 2010 3:56 AM
I would be willing to bet you never see Miles make any kind of contribution to this team.

I dont know why they even wanted him.
Feb 1, 2010 10:56pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
Feb 2, 2010 4:00 AM
Eric Taylor wrote: I would be willing to bet you never see Miles make any kind of contribution to this team.

I dont know why they even wanted him.
Are you really that incompetent? Ever heard of addition by subtraction? Willy Taveras traded=good trade...period.

Not to mention that got $1.3 Million from Willy's worthless ass.

Miles could never see a pitch for the Reds for the rest of his life and it still would be a great trade.
Feb 1, 2010 11:00pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

Senior Member

10,664 posts
Feb 2, 2010 4:27 AM
SportsAndLady wrote:
Eric Taylor wrote: I would be willing to bet you never see Miles make any kind of contribution to this team.

I dont know why they even wanted him.
Are you really that incompetent? Ever heard of addition by subtraction? Willy Taveras traded=good trade...period.

Not to mention that got $1.3 Million from Willy's worthless ass.

Miles could never see a pitch for the Reds for the rest of his life and it still would be a great trade.
Is this guy that dense? Haha. We're just lucky to get Fast Willy off the roster
Feb 1, 2010 11:27pm
killdeer's avatar

killdeer

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1,538 posts
Feb 2, 2010 4:33 AM
mhs95_06 wrote: I think they'll sign Gomes, and the 25 man roster will look like this:

Hernandez
Hanigan

Votto
Phillips
Cabrera
Rolen
Janish
Franciso
Miles or Sutton

Bruce
Stubbs
Gomes
Dickerson
Balentein or Heisey

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Bailey
Chapman or Maloney
Owings
Cordero
Rhodes
Masset
Herrera
Lincoln
unfortunately, that looks an awful lot like a team ready to go 72-90 in 2010.
Feb 1, 2010 11:33pm
C

charliehustle14

Senior Member

2,224 posts
Feb 2, 2010 5:05 AM
Eric Taylor wrote: I would be willing to bet you never see Miles make any kind of contribution to this team.

I dont know why they even wanted him.
He's a .286 career hitter and plays solid offense. He's had one down year (last year) in which he was hampered by an injury.

He may not make a contribution, but he could be a steal. Could be another Jerry Hairston and end up being a big part of the team after getting him for almost nothing.

Either way, it's a low risk, high reward. We dumped money and got rid of Willy's sorry ass. Rosales is fun to watch for his hustle, but realistically, he's a dime a dozen. I remember when people were up in arms when the Reds got rid of Chris Denorfia...well guess what, Denorfia was a dime a dozen and probably isn't even in the league anymore.
Feb 2, 2010 12:05am
D

dave

Senior Member

4,558 posts
Feb 2, 2010 8:14 AM
so excited, can't wait for opening day
Feb 2, 2010 3:14am
C

crab42

Member

66 posts
Feb 2, 2010 12:09 PM
You have to look at Miles as a 25th man at best... There were some that believed Dusty still seen Taveras as his CF solution. Removing him from Dusty's tool box makes the Reds a better team... not to mention Dusty won't be tempted to play Miles over Rolen, OCab, BP, or Votto. If say Stubbs, CD, or Heisey (should he make the team) struggle, Dusty would run Willy out there in a heartbeat. Rosales doesn't bring any skills that aren't replaceable. And the money saved is being used to pay Cabrera's salary, because the Reds were supposedly at their buget. How can this be viewed as a negative... The Reds traded to worst player in the majors last season!

killdeer
72-90? Really? I was one of the most pessimistic Reds fans on the planet going into last season, but I see some real promise with this squad. If the vets stay healthy and the young-ins take another step forward, then this team could be around late in the season.
Feb 2, 2010 7:09am
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killdeer

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Feb 2, 2010 12:33 PM
^^^Definitely hoping for more. I do think the Taveras move was a step in the right direction; still a lot of question marks with a lot of young players that need to step up at the same time. Miles, however, is a no-brainer...a better plug-in type role player than anything Willie (or Rosales for that matter) would have to offer. And, I do think that Jocketty is operating with some kind of blue-print...which is more than I've seen from the front office in some time. It is clear that this is a 'Cardinal -type' team being fundamentally structured around pitching, with more of an emphasis on defense...
Is Votto, Phillips, Bruce enough of a foundation offensively?...Is Rolen a 145-150 game player?...Is Dickerson/Gomes/Stubbs ready to make the next step?...Can the young pitchers stay healty and productive?...a lot of question marks, but I see hope for the future, if not this year.
Feb 2, 2010 7:33am
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crab42

Member

66 posts
Feb 2, 2010 12:37 PM
I agree with the question marks... I think Votto is the only player you can mark down as a sure thing production wise. I think Bruce is ready to make the jump to big time player this season. I questioned his pitch selection and over aggressiveness going into last season, but I liked what I saw towards the end of the season. Much of this season is riding on the progression of the young guys... hoping they turn potential into on field results.
Feb 2, 2010 7:37am
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killdeer

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Feb 2, 2010 12:42 PM
We can always hope for the perfect storm of 1990...a perfect example of young guys peaking at the right time, a good blend of role players, and some veterans playing out the string with one last quality season....this team is a lot like that, although this team definitely has way better pitching than that team, imo.
Feb 2, 2010 7:42am
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crab42

Member

66 posts
Feb 2, 2010 1:52 PM
I think this team has better potential top end talent than that team... with potential being the key word. The 1990 team had a career year from Jack Armstrong, while Browning and Rijo were above average... Those 3 along with Danny Jackson all had an ERA+ better than 110, with a bullpen that was absolutely shut down. That team was less than spectacular on offense, and frankly I think they would struggle in today's game. Votto, Bruce, and Phillips alone give this team much more SLG potential but this team is OBP challenged unlike the 1990 team.
Feb 2, 2010 8:52am
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dave

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4,558 posts
Feb 2, 2010 9:32 PM
I'm expecting big things from Hernandez this year. Dusty should have learned from last year that he needs to play about 4 games a week max. If he does that he should be a very solid 6-7 hitter, one of the spots the Reds really struggled in last year.
Feb 2, 2010 4:32pm
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charliehustle14

Senior Member

2,224 posts
Feb 2, 2010 10:27 PM
crab42 wrote: I agree with the question marks... I think Votto is the only player you can mark down as a sure thing production wise. I think Bruce is ready to make the jump to big time player this season. I questioned his pitch selection and over aggressiveness going into last season, but I liked what I saw towards the end of the season. Much of this season is riding on the progression of the young guys... hoping they turn potential into on field results.
In your opinion, what can we expect from BP in 2010?
Feb 2, 2010 5:27pm
C

crab42

Member

66 posts
Feb 3, 2010 12:14 AM
I think he's hit his ceiling as far as what he can do at the plate... His RBIs may go up if he stays in the 4 hole and Votto and the 1-2 hitters get on base. I would imagine a .280/.330/.445 would be his slash line with anywhere from 20-30 bombs and 85-100 RBI. I would like to see him moved to the 2 hole, use his backside approach and become more of a Brian Roberts type and quit trying to be a Chase Utley type. He has the talent to do most anything on the field, I think that sticking him in the 4 hole (while he has been somewhat productive) and asking him to "be aggressive" has kept him from being more of a weapon because he views that as swing for the freakin' fence. And until Stubbs compiles more ABs and we get an idea on whether his walks will translate to the MLB level, I would much rather see BP moved ahead of Votto (I guess Cabrera) so we can give our best hitters (Votto, BP, Rolen, Bruce) the most ABs. Ideally IMO, Stubbs (maybe even platoon with CD or Heisey in LF) would take over CF and the leadoff spot with BP 2nd, Votto 3rd, and Rolen/Bruce alternating 4-5 depending on whether its a RHP or LHP on the mound.

Honestly, Im not worried about BP... Im worried that Rolen stays healthy, that Stubbs keeps rolling, and that Bruce takes the next leap to stardom. I think subtracting Willy Taveras and adding a confident, relaxed and healthy Jay Bruce will do wonders for the offense... Whether it's enough depends on how well Johnny and Homer do on the other side of the ball.
Feb 2, 2010 7:14pm
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Ironman92

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49,363 posts
Feb 4, 2010 4:38 PM
We KNOW:

CF will be leadoff (stubbs), SS will bat 2nd (Cabrera), Votto 3rd, Phillips 4th and Rolen 5th

Nothing in baseball is more set in stone then Phillips batting 4th for Dusty Baker. He'd ahve Babe Ruth batting 3rd and Lou Gehrig batting 5th...same with Pujols and Holliday.....probably even Teixeira and Arod and Utley and Howard
Feb 4, 2010 11:38am
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crab42

Member

66 posts
Feb 4, 2010 5:22 PM
Of course he would split Utley and Howard, as well as Ruth and Gehrig... You can't have lefties hit back to back in the middle of the order. With Pujols and Holliday he would probably hit Skip Shumaker in the 4 hole just to make sure that David Weathers can't pitch to both of them in a big situation in the 7th inning. You have to game plan for 1 hypothetical inning and not worry about the other 8.
Feb 4, 2010 12:22pm
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killdeer

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Feb 4, 2010 5:29 PM
^^^I chuckled. Just be glad the Reds didn't really bite on Damon...you can only imagine how Dusty would've fallen in love with that nearly has-been.
Feb 4, 2010 12:29pm
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thavoice

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14,376 posts
Feb 4, 2010 5:31 PM
@ the reds caravan in Lima (and this may have been said already but Im not reading all 3 pgs) an old guy had a comment to the panel which had PHillips, Castelini and others, and it was something like 'phillips, I like ya but you arent a 4 hole hitter, you should be in teh 2 hole'.
Guess he smiled and said he agree and that he does what the team asks....

as we already knew that. I bet he wont be in teh 4 hole this year.

Now..that was second hand info from a woman I know...but she knows more BB than the avg guy as her dad coached for a number of years..and I was kinda sad to say she is the one who informed me of the signing of cabrera.
Feb 4, 2010 12:31pm
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crab42

Member

66 posts
Feb 4, 2010 5:42 PM
killdeer
I wouldn't go that far on Damon... I think the Reds need his bat. He's put up great numbers 4 of the last 5 seasons and he would be a force being out of the AL East and hitting in GABP. Right now Joey Votto is the only offensive player on this team that is better than Johnny Damon. Now, I wouldn't give him more than year but he's played about 140-150 games in most of the last 7 seasons. The guy can still hit and we have a BIG hole in LF.

thavoice
I hope so... I would like to see Jay moved up against RHP and given some protection. I don't want him in the 6 hole all season with Dickerson or Hernandez behind him. I want the best hitters to get the most ABs while playing to their strengths. I feel that Jay will be the 2nd best hitter on the team against RHP, and quite possibly the person with the best SLG% against righties.
Feb 4, 2010 12:42pm
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thavoice

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14,376 posts
Feb 4, 2010 5:51 PM
Terhe was another front office guy there I think and BP mentioned something like...'tell that to him' or something like that.

WE will see what happens...but I think they are goin in the right direction. I wouldnt fall in love with Stubbs' power from last year...8 in like 190 AB I think, because he only hit 28 in close to 1600 in the ML's (goin on memory from what I looked up last week) and he is a career .268 in ML and also hit around taht last for the reds.

Reds need Bruce to hit, and need Votto to be, well, Votto (and not have any of his setbacks and time off). Team is S L O W L Y getting better I think.
Feb 4, 2010 12:51pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Feb 4, 2010 5:53 PM
ON a side topic...anyone ever been to spring training?

I know they moved to Az this year...am thinking about going in a year or two. Spend a week out there..and with the Indians also there ya should be able to catch a home game every day.
Feb 4, 2010 12:53pm
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crab42

Member

66 posts
Feb 4, 2010 5:57 PM
Stubbs' power has always projected to be better than it was in the minors... But the only thing I'm worried about with him is defense and OBP, everything else will fall into place. Stubbs has been a guy that put on a good show in BP, and hit some HRs in the minors in excess of 420 feet. They keep waiting for that power to become more consistent, and I think we could see that with his contact rate going up... I just hope it's not at the expense of his walks.
Feb 4, 2010 12:57pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Feb 4, 2010 6:12 PM
I believe they did expect him to hit for more power than he did in the ML, that is for sure but then again I didnt know what he really did in college. Few weeks ago when I started to get into baseball mode (after the steelers were elim) I checked a little bit deaper.

At texas he had 31 HR in just a little under 800 AB's (23 in his last 500 or so). Unsure how much more they projected going from aluminum to wood.

He hit 10 in his last season + early 09 in the ML in around 800 AB's. If he can give the Reds a dozen HR in a full season then I think that is fair enough along with 50-60 RBI's.


I know that things change and ML numbers arent always solid indicators but ultimately you are what the back of your baseball card says you are. Stubbs is a good player but just one that wont be producting alot of HR's. Def needs to get OB more if he wont be producing power numbers or RBI's or a good avg. He did avge about a half a walk per game in teh minors.....and over a strikeout per game. (same in college) I know you are not a big on the K's......I am to a certain extent. Ill excuse K's if ya can hit for power..

Ive seen guys put some amazing BP's together for the Dragons.....Pena, was a guy named Peters I think, and of course dunnkey,

His avg was similiar in ML as with the Reds last year. His increased HR output is a result of solid contact and that is a godo thing. Hope he can be a 20+ HR guy but ill believe it when I see it.

Oh..>Feb is here.....so ST is just around the corner and so is debating the great game of baseball.
Feb 4, 2010 1:12pm
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crab42

Member

66 posts
Feb 4, 2010 6:44 PM
If his OBP is up there I can forgive the Ks, but I agree that he needs to increase contact and add a little power. I'm not big on RBIs because I believe they are a team dependent stat and if Stubbs is batting leadoff I'm not real worried about those numbers. I think with his previous walk rate that if he hits in the .260-.275 range and keeps his SB% around the 80% mark that he had in the minors, he'll be an above average CF once you figure in his defensive value... which could honestly be the best in the majors after this season.
Feb 4, 2010 1:44pm