What is the answer? Do we now return to accepting civilian casualties? When the enemy follows no rules, should we? What was the plan and end result hoped for, when Trump used the MOAB in April?Dr Winston O'Boogie;1856423 wrote:This is a terrible tragedy. But it also shows how desperate these idiots are. If the best they can do is drive cars up onto sidewalks and run around like maniacs with knives, then f*** them. That is more pathetic then the most amateurish street gang with juvenile dipshits leading the charge. Again, that in no way diminishes the tragedy which has been visited upon the victims. But these ass clowns know deep down they are not a formidable power. Retired dudes from the Hells Angels could come up with more sophisticated crap than this.
Trump called them losers. Obamacare said they are the JV team. I wholeheartedly agree with both.
I do not agree AT ALL. The biggest mistake that we make is to underestimate this. That we don't consider this an existential threat is a serious miscalculation that has been, and will continue to cause, more and more of this. George Bush had an inkling of what we were in for when he said that this is going to be a long war after 9/11 and Afghanistan. But Bush made several mistakes that allowed Pandora's box to be opened a crack. Obama opened it completely. Trump, even if he has a clue, is besieged on so many fronts, that we might as well get used to the idea that this stuff is going to continue to happen both here and abroad.Dr Winston O'Boogie;1856423 wrote:This is a terrible tragedy. But it also shows how desperate these idiots are. If the best they can do is drive cars up onto sidewalks and run around like maniacs with knives, then f*** them. That is more pathetic then the most amateurish street gang with juvenile dipshits leading the charge. Again, that in no way diminishes the tragedy which has been visited upon the victims. But these ass clowns know deep down they are not a formidable power. Retired dudes from the Hells Angels could come up with more sophisticated crap than this.
Trump called them losers. Obamacare said they are the JV team. I wholeheartedly agree with both.
There are 44 countries in Europe today. United States will never become Europe.Spock;1856439 wrote:Europe has a problem that we dont quite have yet. They take massive amounts of immigrants and dont require they assimilate into their society.
I hope that as a country we try to not become Europe.
I don't believe we underestimate this. The west has spent trillions of dollars and sacrificed thousands of lives in order to deal with this problem. I am no for onc suggesting it is not serious. It deserves our continued vigilance. My point is that these "people" have been reduced to bush league. If they were sophisticated, they'd be knocking out power networks, disrupting water systems, smuggling major weapons into sensitive places. They instead rely on primarily 18-20 year old petty criminals looking to make a name for themselves. These recent "terrorists" are not committed warriors. They are the same caliber of followers that any criminal mob tends to attract. It is a serious problem, no doubt about it. But if they were capable of big time coordinated attacks that maximized casualties, they'd be doing it. They are bush league all the way.HitsRus;1856436 wrote:I do not agree AT ALL. The biggest mistake that we make is to underestimate this. That we don't consider this an existential threat is a serious miscalculation that has been, and will continue to cause, more and more of this. George Bush had an inkling of what we were in for when he said that this is going to be a long war after 9/11 and Afghanistan. But Bush made several mistakes that allowed Pandora's box to be opened a crack. Obama opened it completely. Trump, even if he has a clue, is besieged on so many fronts, that we might as well get used to the idea that this stuff is going to continue to happen both here and abroad.
This is existential....this "JV team" is a shadowy, well organized network that has the ability to wreak havoc upon our open society, and in combination with coordinated attacks by the radical left masquerading as "progressives" work to destroy us from within.... denigrating our institutions, villainizing our culture and history, splitting our unity by attacking the ties that bind us and sapping our will. They don't need a conventional army...they are creating one within our borders.
Well, the problem is not that they don't require assimilation. The problem is that Europe took on massive numbers of people way too fast to even give the thought to assimilation. It just can't be done in that short amount of time. Dovetailing into that is the fact that... with such large numbers of people moving in, they are bound to stick to already set muslim communities (familiarity in a strange country) and creating, in essence, large ghettos. Before long, these ghettos start closing themselves off from surrounding communities. That's why there's not much assimilation happening these past several years. Assimilation was doomed to even start.Spock;1856439 wrote:Europe has a problem that we dont quite have yet. They take massive amounts of immigrants and dont require they assimilate into their society.
I hope that as a country we try to not become Europe.
Please.... They aren't trying to enforce even basic laws in those areas where Muslims have corded off while neiborhoods and towns. Even their police can't get into some neighborhoodsCenterBHSFan;1856445 wrote:Well, the problem is not that they don't require assimilation. The problem is that Europe took on massive numbers of people way too fast to even give the thought to assimilation. It just can't be done in that short amount of time. Dovetailing into that is the fact that... with such large numbers of people moving in, they are bound to stick to already set muslim communities (familiarity in a strange country) and creating, in essence, large ghettos. Before long, these ghettos start closing themselves off from surrounding communities. That's why there's not much assimilation happening these past several years. Assimilation was doomed to even start.
I still think that when people leave to go "visit/tour" countries like Libya, they shouldn't be allowed back in. Make sure that the average citizen is well aware upfront that unless your job requires you to go to countries such as Libya (medical, academic, etc), that there is no good reason to go in the first place... much less return.
What else is there to do? Keep track of the amount of time in between attacks? Continue holding candlelight vigils? Continue monitoring cells and networks with no intention to prevent? Keep "talking" about it?
Meanwhile, moderate muslims are trying to give advice and information, receiving ridicule and derision in return. None of their suggestions are being listened to and taken under advisement in a serious manner whatsoever. Because tolerance must trump everything else. Hard-line Islamists have even manage to effectively stifle free speech concerning this issue (remember Salman Rushdie and Charlie Hebdo?), you can't even opine without restrictions in most of Europe.
I know that there is no fast and easy answer or solution, but at some point these things are going to have to be talked, even with the knowledge that you're going to offend large amounts of people.
Where are you talking about?Spock;1856552 wrote:Please.... They aren't trying to enforce even basic laws in those areas where Muslims have corded off while neiborhoods and towns. Even their police can't get into some neighborhoods
And this is why they should be taken seriously. At some point, one of these groups will likely get the technology to create dirty bombs and that's when the game changes. This is also a reason why we should completely take North Korea seriously. Yes, they are trying to refine their nuclear capabilities but that's not really the biggest issue. They would like nothing more than to knock out our grid. If that happens, all Hell breaks loose.Dr Winston O'Boogie;1856444 wrote: If they were sophisticated, they'd be knocking out power networks, disrupting water systems, smuggling major weapons into sensitive places.
No-go zones are all over Europe. The UK, Sweden, Belgium, France, etc.salto;1856557 wrote:Where are you talking about?
This is true. But it's because they flooded themselves with not only refugees of war but all manner of other Muslim migrants. You WILL get bad apples when you do this. You will lose your grip on what is going on and where. You will have economic repercussions. You will have social disorder. All of this is happening, yes.Spock;1856552 wrote:Please.... They aren't trying to enforce even basic laws in those areas where Muslims have corded off while neiborhoods and towns. Even their police can't get into some neighborhoods
Sorry, spending trillions and sacrificing lives was rendered useless because we failed to follow thru because of feckless political expediency. We have consistently minimized the threat that ISIS has posed. Withdrawing troops prematurely, announcing withdrawal deadlines, failing to enforce "red lines", negligently failing to act as ISIS gained a foothold and took over vast areas in Iraq and throughout the middle east. There is nothing JV at all about this, except perhaps our Mid-east foreign policy ineptitude.Dr Winston O'Boogie;1856444 wrote:I don't believe we underestimate this. The west has spent trillions of dollars and sacrificed thousands of lives in order to deal with this problem. I am no for onc suggesting it is not serious. It deserves our continued vigilance. My point is that these "people" have been reduced to bush league. If they were sophisticated, they'd be knocking out power networks, disrupting water systems, smuggling major weapons into sensitive places. They instead rely on primarily 18-20 year old petty criminals looking to make a name for themselves. These recent "terrorists" are not committed warriors. They are the same caliber of followers that any criminal mob tends to attract. It is a serious problem, no doubt about it. But if they were capable of big time coordinated attacks that maximized casualties, they'd be doing it. They are bush league all the way.
Spot on.At some point, one of these groups will likely get the technology to create dirty bombs and that's when the game changes. This is also a reason why we should completely take North Korea seriously. Yes, they are trying to refine their nuclear capabilities but that's not really the biggest issue. They would like nothing more than to knock out our grid. If that happens, all Hell breaks loose.
Stupid. What part of "no-go" zone is full of police in the background and people walking about from shop to shop? Complete bullshit.CenterBHSFan;1856672 wrote:No-go zones are all over Europe. The UK, Sweden, Belgium, France, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hw9ukbekvg
Police being chased away: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dao89RedIco
My point is if you look at the type and caliber of the attacks over the past 30 years, they are getting progressively less sophisticated and more reliant on rogue individuals. I do not discount the seriousness and danger of this. But these guys are regressing. After the embassy bombings in Africa during the 1990's and certainly after 9/11 and then after the Madrid and London 2005 attacks, they were becoming more sophisticated. Flash forward to today and they are relying on individuals to initiate isolated attacks with vehicles or knives. If they were capable of unleashing massive weapons or attacking strategic systems, they'd be doing it. We've been worrying about them acquiring WMDs for decades. From the looks of it, they aren't even close and they're getting further and further away.HitsRus;1856809 wrote:Sorry, spending trillions and sacrificing lives was rendered useless because we failed to follow thru because of feckless political expediency. We have consistently minimized the threat that ISIS has posed. Withdrawing troops prematurely, announcing withdrawal deadlines, failing to enforce "red lines", negligently failing to act as ISIS gained a foothold and took over vast areas in Iraq and throughout the middle east. There is nothing JV at all about this, except perhaps our Mid-east foreign policy ineptitude.
I'm assuming by "cancer" you mean Islam. Did you pass 4th grade math? What happens when you divide a small number of instances over a very large number(~1.8 Billion)?Spot on.
What makes you or anybody for that matter, think that these attacks are going to stay at this level ( as if this level is not horrible enough)? It would have been easy enough to contain this cancer in a very small region, but instead it was negligently allowed to fester and grow and spread. Now it's all over the world. It was our responsibility as leader of the free world, and we blew it. The Trojan horse is in place, and all that can happen is for the citizenry to be radicalized.
I agree completely. They really are the "JV Squad".Dr Winston O'Boogie;1856854 wrote:My point is if you look at the type and caliber of the attacks over the past 30 years, they are getting progressively less sophisticated and more reliant on rogue individuals. I do not discount the seriousness and danger of this. But these guys are regressing. After the embassy bombings in Africa during the 1990's and certainly after 9/11 and then after the Madrid and London 2005 attacks, they were becoming more sophisticated. Flash forward to today and they are relying on individuals to initiate isolated attacks with vehicles or knives. If they were capable of unleashing massive weapons or attacking strategic systems, they'd be doing it. We've been worrying about them acquiring WMDs for decades. From the looks of it, they aren't even close and they're getting further and further away.
It is hard to defend against these one off nut jobs, no doubt about it. But we are in a fight with a glorified biker gang more than a rogue nation. The threat of North Korea is completely different as there you have the apparatus of a state and all of its resources. Here you have a cult in the desert desperately hoping to inspire maladjusted teenagers and young men to do its heavy lifting. Short of that, they are shooting rifles and throwing grenades at bombed out war zone towns. That is not the sign of an organization on the ascendance.