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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 24, 2017 1:23am
Only three #11 seeds have made the Final 4, but none have advanced....if Xavier gets past Gonzaga, I like their chances.friendfromlowry;1843613 wrote:Xavier and Gonzaga will be an awesome game.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 24, 2017 8:19am
Major choke by Zona. Lost to an 11-seed who really shouldn't have been in the NCAA Tournament. Would've had to go through a mid-major in Gonzaga to make the Final Four, which would've been in Phoenix. Probably the biggest miss of Sean Miller's career. So big, that it's not shocking if he would listen on the Indiana job.
ernest_t_bass
Posts: 24,984
Mar 24, 2017 8:30am
Go Xavier.Azubuike24;1843623 wrote:Major choke by Zona. Lost to an 11-seed who really shouldn't have been in the NCAA Tournament. Would've had to go through a mid-major in Gonzaga to make the Final Four, which would've been in Phoenix. Probably the biggest miss of Sean Miller's career. So big, that it's not shocking if he would listen on the Indiana job.
Go UCLA.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Mar 24, 2017 9:12am
Seems like everyone is discounting Gonzaga...not like they aren't the second best team in the country the entire season or anything!
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 24, 2017 9:32am
Agree. They have an unfair reputation of "choking."Laley23;1843628 wrote:Seems like everyone is discounting Gonzaga...not like they aren't the second best team in the country the entire season or anything!
ernest_t_bass
Posts: 24,984
Mar 24, 2017 9:52am
I don't think it's unfair. Get over that hump, and then you drop the reputation.Azubuike24;1843631 wrote:Agree. They have an unfair reputation of "choking."
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 24, 2017 9:55am
They have been a 1-seed twice. If you don't make a Final Four and you're not a 1-seed, it's technically not "choking."ernest_t_bass;1843633 wrote:I don't think it's unfair. Get over that hump, and then you drop the reputation.
Arizona has "choked" just as many times with a favorable draw and more talent. Why don't they get ridiculed like Gonzaga?
ernest_t_bass
Posts: 24,984
Mar 24, 2017 10:24am
I see the "choke" as winning the big one for Gonzaga.Azubuike24;1843634 wrote:They have been a 1-seed twice. If you don't make a Final Four and you're not a 1-seed, it's technically not "choking."
Arizona has "choked" just as many times with a favorable draw and more talent. Why don't they get ridiculed like Gonzaga?
S
slingshot4ever
Posts: 4,085
Mar 24, 2017 10:29am
Second best behind who? I would have both Nova and Kansas ahead of them for a better regular season....potentially UNC as wellLaley23;1843628 wrote:Seems like everyone is discounting Gonzaga...not like they aren't the second best team in the country the entire season or anything!
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Mar 24, 2017 10:30am
And likely considered the "best" team if they hadn't laid that one egg against BYU.Laley23;1843628 wrote:Seems like everyone is discounting Gonzaga...not like they aren't the second best team in the country the entire season or anything!
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Mar 24, 2017 10:43am
Kansas was the only team better, imo. I watched Nova this year, not once did I think they were top 5.slingshot4ever;1843641 wrote:Second best behind who? I would have both Nova and Kansas ahead of them for a better regular season....potentially UNC as well
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Mar 24, 2017 10:44am
Gonzaga has to win a title to not be ridiculed? Damn you have some high standards.ernest_t_bass;1843638 wrote:I see the "choke" as winning the big one for Gonzaga.
ernest_t_bass
Posts: 24,984
Mar 24, 2017 10:52am
In my opinion, that's why they are seen as "choke" artists. They have these "great" teams every year, but can't win the big one.Laley23;1843648 wrote:Gonzaga has to win a title to not be ridiculed? Damn you have some high standards.
bases_loaded
Posts: 6,912
Mar 24, 2017 10:57am
I need survivor winner today. 58% of the remaining pool left last night with Zona and Michigan losing. Play it safe with UNC or gamble with South Carolina? Leaning towards UNC only because I want nothing to do with that elite 8 matchup and would prefer to keep Kansas till final 4
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Mar 24, 2017 11:04am
This may be the only time I've ever heard gonzaga and "great" together. I've rarely ever heard anyone say they've had a ton of "great" teams.ernest_t_bass;1843649 wrote:In my opinion, that's why they are seen as "choke" artists. They have these "great" teams every year, but can't win the big one.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Mar 24, 2017 11:35am
Years they had a high (1-4) seed and lost to a lower-seeded team: 2004, 2005, 2013 (when they were a 1 and lost to a 9 in the second round).ernest_t_bass;1843649 wrote:In my opinion, that's why they are seen as "choke" artists. They have these "great" teams every year, but can't win the big one.
Every other year, they either weren't remotely great (lower seed) or in the case of 2006 (3 losing to a 2) 2009 (4 losing to a 1) and 2015 (2 losing to a 1), they performed to their seed.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 24, 2017 11:39am
UNC better during the regular season? The same UNC with 7 losses? No way. UNC was lucky to get a 1-seed.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Mar 24, 2017 11:42am
Now, on this site, I think they got a "choke artist" rep simply because Rec had an irrational hatred of them. Must have had a couple Aussies on the team or something...
As to in a grander sense, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think they get a "choke artist" rep simply because they're a team from a small conference that's weak overall that legit made it as a national commodity. They make the tournament about every year and often are seeded far better than little guys can count on. So when they don't exceed expectations or don't live up to expectations, the narrative is that they "choked" as a way to discredit them based on not being a big conference team that plays a tougher schedule in Jan and Feb in a "Sure, they can beat Portland and San Fran, but when the big boys come calling, they cave!"
As to in a grander sense, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think they get a "choke artist" rep simply because they're a team from a small conference that's weak overall that legit made it as a national commodity. They make the tournament about every year and often are seeded far better than little guys can count on. So when they don't exceed expectations or don't live up to expectations, the narrative is that they "choked" as a way to discredit them based on not being a big conference team that plays a tougher schedule in Jan and Feb in a "Sure, they can beat Portland and San Fran, but when the big boys come calling, they cave!"
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Mar 24, 2017 11:44am
Yeah, any team that loses 2/3 to Duke this year is nowhere close to "best in regular season". Just no.Azubuike24;1843657 wrote:UNC better during the regular season? The same UNC with 7 losses? No way. UNC was lucky to get a 1-seed.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Mar 24, 2017 12:23pm
They have had 2 "great" teams (this year included). And 2-3 good teams (which they produced with, and gave some epic battles to the higher seeds). Then teams that are the best of the Mid-Majors (anywhere from 6-11 seeds who should win a game, tops). Who has ever said they are greatbyear in, year out? Tell them to pay better attention to college basketball.ernest_t_bass;1843649 wrote:In my opinion, that's why they are seen as "choke" artists. They have these "great" teams every year, but can't win the big one.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 24, 2017 2:14pm
Some of the Gonzaga "chokes" are not really that. People just remember them.
2003 vs Arizona. Gonzaga was an 8 and lost by 1 in double OT to Arizona, the same Arizona team who played a heck of a regional final against runnner-up Kansas.
2006 vs UCLA. Gonzaga was a 3 and UCLA was a 2. The same UCLA team who played in the national title game.
2013 vs Wichita State. Gonzaga was a 1 and although Wichita State pulled the upset, they also made the Final Four.
2015 vs Duke. Gonzaga was a 2 and Duke went on to win the national championship.
I'm predicting that even if they make the Final Four, people will STILL discredit them saying they got a gift facing an 11-seed out West to get there. Probably a good thing, as Gonzaga has been knocked out by Arizona 3 times in the NCAA Tournament.
2003 vs Arizona. Gonzaga was an 8 and lost by 1 in double OT to Arizona, the same Arizona team who played a heck of a regional final against runnner-up Kansas.
2006 vs UCLA. Gonzaga was a 3 and UCLA was a 2. The same UCLA team who played in the national title game.
2013 vs Wichita State. Gonzaga was a 1 and although Wichita State pulled the upset, they also made the Final Four.
2015 vs Duke. Gonzaga was a 2 and Duke went on to win the national championship.
I'm predicting that even if they make the Final Four, people will STILL discredit them saying they got a gift facing an 11-seed out West to get there. Probably a good thing, as Gonzaga has been knocked out by Arizona 3 times in the NCAA Tournament.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Mar 24, 2017 2:21pm
Hell, even if they make the championship game, depending on who they face from the East, considering it could potentially be the 7 or 8 from there.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Mar 24, 2017 2:23pm
Yeah, and watch them win the title and people say they only did so with a great draw. I'm not at all a Gonzaga fan, but the hate on them from so many big school fan bases is ridiculous and more often than not, I've found myself defending them.
bases_loaded
Posts: 6,912
Mar 24, 2017 2:25pm
My teams left: UNC, UK, Butler, UCLA, Wisky, SC, Gonzaga, Kansas, Xavier....UNC tonight, Gonzaga Tommorrow? Or something different?
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Mar 24, 2017 2:33pm
If it's Kansas vs ucla in the final four, I am looking good to win both my money league brackets. Which would be about tree fiddy. Which is nice.